48 replies to this topic

[Rejarial Galatan]

Sorry to burst yet another of your bubbles Dee, but steam isn't the be all end all of metrics.

[Wintersdark]

Rejarial Galatan, on 27 March 2016 - 02:30 AM, said:

Sorry to burst yet another of your bubbles Dee, but steam isn't the be all end all of metrics.

Player count is the absolutely relevant metric for this discussion.

We're still riding high on players from the release, but that'll continue to fade. Any changes have to be done with the "final" stable count numbers in mind too, not the current numbers.

[2fast2stompy]

How is domination "pandering to COD players", exactly?
If anything, I found it forces people into more brawls instead of staying behind lobbing missiles from cover or sticking to peeking alpha exchanges, again from cover.

The only things that need to change are fixed zones and the mandatory waiting, even if the enemy can't possibly win.
If the match ended if all players are dead and there's more than 60 seconds left of the match time limit, and the actual domination zone randomly moved to some interesting sections of the map that don't see much battle otherwise, it'd be perfect.

Finally, the mode is designed around slugging it out in a specified area, it favors heavy mechs, not light mechs (that would be conquest, if anything). If your team is composed entirely of 46kph mechs that can't even make it in time and lose to a single locust sitting in the green circle, that is a symptom of a larger problem with the game, not domination.

Your "demands" are dumb and impractical.

[KursedVixen]

The other problem with Domination is on Apline peaks and caustic vally the point is in a horrlby tactical position if this were a true game NOBODY would build anything in those locations in a warzone , now a civilian construction company would build there, but in NO Real world would ANY military build anything in such a crappy open position it's like ASKING to be artillery fired to oblivion, I know we probably need better game modes ,but I'm tired of this TF2 Battlfront COD gameplay this is not any of those games ontop of that none of the capture points on domination OR Conquest have any tactical value. WHo build these thing Civlians?

In mechwarrior living legends on one map a cap point is IN a Union dropship that is not only a tacticle position but a KEy piece of hardware, we have nothing like that in MWO, we have places like that but they are not capture points or anything

And then there's the issue with removing Turrets from assault worse decision ever why? Everybody just caps the base it's no longer let's fight there is NO assault game i have played lately where some silly light tries to cap my base and some games Even the WHOle team caps the base even though you actually get less out of just capping the base instead of fighting. it's not worth it ,but nobody cares.

And no Domination does not favor heavy mechs because lights will always get there first yes a battle will ensue but I have YEt to see a game on domination where the counter for one side Does not go down.

And quit complaining about Time, battletech is about patience have you ever played the board game? it takes hours to play. If you don't have the time to play a 15 minute match DOn't play you can easily gauge out how much time you have unless your completely incompetent in your sense of time. I'm tired of people complaining about people 'drawlign out the match' if someoen wants to run out the timer let them doesn't matter if your team has more kills or points you will still win.


I want this opt out feature back there's a reason I don't play conquest, I'm not built to cap points I'm build to destroy other mechs and maybe hold a defensive position.

Edited by KursedVixen, 27 March 2016 - 10:26 AM.

[2fast2stompy]

KursedVixen, on 27 March 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

And no Domination does not favor heavy mechs because lights will always get there first yes a battle will ensue but I have YEt to see a game on domination where the counter for one side Does not go down.

Yes, it does, and here is why: Let's assume one team has upwards of one light, while the other has none. Yes, the timer will go down for the lighter team, but unless the heavier team somehow completely fails to show up, the heavier team will have a big advantage in firepower and armor because at that point there is absolutely no reason to move around the map anymore, and speed becomes irrelevant.

KursedVixen, on 27 March 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

And quit complaining about Time, battletech is about patience have you ever played the board game? it takes hours to play. If you don't have the time to play a 15 minute match DOn't play you can easily gauge out how much time you have unless your completely incompetent in your sense of time. I'm tired of people complaining about people 'drawlign out the match' if someoen wants to run out the timer let them doesn't matter if your team has more kills or points you will still win.

First of all, you are assuming everyone has the same amount of time they can play.
Second, there is a difference between playing for a long time, and doing literally nothing for some arbitrary amount of time for no reason other than shortsightedness on the part of the devs. Waiting for time to run out after the match is won is not playing a game. You can do that without logging in.

And your last sentence shows complete lack of understanding of the matter being discussed, please apply yourself.

[KursedVixen]

2fast2stompy, on 27 March 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Yes, it does, and here is why: Let's assume one team has upwards of one light, while the other has none. Yes, the timer will go down for the lighter team, but unless the heavier team somehow completely fails to show up, the heavier team will have a big advantage in firepower and armor because at that point there is absolutely no reason to move around the map anymore, and speed becomes irrelevant.


First of all, you are assuming everyone has the same amount of time they can play.
Second, there is a difference between playing for a long time, and doing literally nothing for some arbitrary amount of time for no reason other than shortsightedness on the part of the devs. Waiting for time to run out after the match is won is not playing a game. You can do that without logging in.

And your last sentence shows complete lack of understanding of the matter being discussed, please apply yourself.

Nope I never assumed everyone has the same amount of time I said people should GAUGE THEIR TIME in relation to a 15 minute match.

Quote

If you don't have the time to play a 15 minute match Don't play you can easily gauge out how much time you have, unless your incompetent in your sense of time.

If your going to say i did something, at least read my entire post and don't put words into my post.

it's clear you are just trying to anger me so.

Edited by KursedVixen, 27 March 2016 - 11:32 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Regarding assumptions on firepower and armor... maybe if this were tabletop battletech with original weapon values and mech values... that would be true... but this isn't battletech...its a divergent variant where weapon damages are mostly the same but the armor values have been doubled. Also the combat system in tabletop was based around set phases of each turn of the game... you moved... the opponent moved...each unit...one at a time... then you shifted torso...again one at a time..then you fired...one at a time... there was no real time locusts and stuff running tiny circles around the feet of heavy mechs and the heavies never being able to lower their guns onto them. It just didn't happen that way. Also the effective weapon ranges were for the most part much shorter. There was no optimal vs maximum-range damage curve for energy and ballistic weapons like in MWO, LRMs maxed out at 630 meters. Machineguns, small lasers and flamers at 90 meters. In classic battletech a lance of locusts really couldn't hope to kill an atlas on their own. In MWO, a single locust has the potential to do it with a competent player. Or sure if the atlas can get a single AC20 round on target it won't be good for the locust... the trick is actually managing that.

Edited by Dee Eight, 27 March 2016 - 11:09 AM.

[KursedVixen]

And lasers had longer ranges than LRm's and clans laserS waaaay outshot IS as far as range and damage and actually had comparable heat to IS lasers, (They were not hotter) I know this is no longer mechwarrior but still that does not mean this game should be short. and as he said there was no optimum range things reached out to their max range full damage no farther.

Edited by KursedVixen, 27 March 2016 - 11:33 AM.

[2fast2stompy]

Dee Eight, on 27 March 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

In MWO, a single locust has the potential to do it with a competent player. Or sure if the atlas can get a single AC20 round on target it won't be good for the locust... the trick is actually managing that.

So what you're saying is a good locust pilot can kill an atlas, but a good atlas pilot can kill a locust. Also, we do have streaks, you know. A single streak boat will kill an entire light lance without even paying attention.

Lights are are, what, the least played class in the game? Do we really need to ***** about them being good in some situations?

The locust(s) in your example can kill an atlas, sure, if it catches him alone. What is the atlas doing alone? Worse, what is an atlas doing alone in domination?

[Dee Eight]

Depends on the mode... in quick matches... lights are more played than assaults. As to streaks...sure clan streak 6s are great aside from the SLOW as molasses in january cooldown...but IS streak 2s...suckage...

Edited by Dee Eight, 27 March 2016 - 12:08 PM.

[2fast2stompy]

Eh, I wouldn't use them as the game is now, but if lights were to suddenly become the devil and you knew you'd have 3+ in a match, something like a kintaro might be a decent light hunter. Around 7 dps of guaranteed damage isn't bad, and you'd have some lasers to pewpew at bigger mechs.

For comparison, a streak crow has less sustained dps, but a much bigger alpha. A griffin or something might even have an edge, due to jumpjets.

[Dee Eight]

Except for the ridiculous spreads and the fact that streaks always damage the front armor boxes... even when shooting from behind the target, I might agree with the streak 2s on the griffin or wolverine or another medium/heavy with a lot of missile hardpoints. Plus streaks NEVER hit the head box, at least with regular SRMs and LRMs there's a small chance of hitting them.

[NoiseCrypt]

Shame on you both for derailing this fine 10th or 20th thread on hard-lockouts... ( good work guys )

[VinJade]

anyways back on topic
some modes like Domination should be locked out to heavies & assaults as it is clearly a light- fast medium mech mode.
so being able to opt out of it we assaults won't have to be 'dead weight' as it will take us depending on the map at least a minute and a half to get there.

I have lost count how many times I seen a player half a** it (while still not breaking the rules) because they don't like the mode.

[Firewuff]

if you want 15 min wait time back. I love the voting, I wanted the voting... your original statement is flatly wrong.

[Wintersdark]

VinJade, on 27 March 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

anyways back on topic
some modes like Domination should be locked out to heavies & assaults as it is clearly a light- fast medium mech mode.
so being able to opt out of it we assaults won't have to be 'dead weight' as it will take us depending on the map at least a minute and a half to get there.

I have lost count how many times I seen a player half a** it (while still not breaking the rules) because they don't like the mode.

I've already addressed why this is a mindblowingly stupid idea.

Fix the mode. You can't exclude a couple weight classes from a mode; that's absurd.

[VinJade]

"Fix the mode. You can't exclude a couple weight classes from a mode; that's absurd."

The mode is as absurd as excluding two weight classes as the way it was done, if nothing else Domn is the key reason behind the opt out even popping up.

After all you might as well as exclude assault and any mechs slower a fast medium.

[NoiseCrypt]

VinJade, on 27 March 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

The mode is as absurd as excluding two weight classes as the way it was done, if nothing else Domn is the key reason behind the opt out even popping up.

Don't use domination as an excuse for opt/lockout. This has been championed by a select few since the introduction of voting.

And give PGI a chance to work with the spawn points. Its a new game mode, and it still needs time to be worn in.

[VinJade]

@NC
its not just the spawn problem it is also the fact that they cut the time down from 3 minutes to one, it takes about that time to get close to the middle of some maps.

[NoiseCrypt]

VinJade, on 27 March 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

@NC
its not just the spawn problem it is also the fact that they cut the time down from 3 minutes to one, it takes about that time to get close to the middle of some maps.

which is a spawn problem....