106 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

maniacos, on 26 March 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

You all forget that this is of course a matter of concern, I mean you will get the rating no matter what you do and if the W/L is around 50% you will increase so if what you say is true you have hardly a chance to stay in "normal grounds" if you want to say it this way, besides of playing extra bad or like just stand and let them kill you quickly which is certainly not what was intended.
That said, you can ignore your tier but it will have effect on your matchmaking and so there is a reason to be concerned about that.

What the hell are you talking about? I specifically said it'll progress you forwards gradually regardless. I never mentioned "normal grounds", just that you may not want it to progress you too fast.

I did say, however, that the root purpose of PSR is to protect new players from experienced ones. That's why there's a net upward movement.

But understand " you'll all get there eventually" is both untrue (many do stall out in mid tiers) and misleading. Sure, most will get to tier one eventually. After many, many thousands of matches. That's a long enough timeframe that it's not a significant issue right now.

[maniacos]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 March 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

You are talking as if I would do these things in a vacuum. I'm not going to push out ahead if I don't think I will get support. If my team seems to be on the ball, and we're all collectively moving for a push and I'm tanky, then yes, I will push ahead to take hits.

Of course not, but that still doesn't make your personal skills have great impact on the team's performance if you are alone. It's completely random.

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But, that's just one point from that post. There were several.

Yes I picked that one exemplary

[Y E O N N E]

maniacos, on 26 March 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Of course not, but that still doesn't make your personal skills have great impact on the team's performance if you are alone. It's completely random.


Yes I picked that one exemplary

You shouldn't have picked just one, though, because they are all options you have in any given game and they all contribute to having a significant impact (believe it or not, even an Assault can squirrel). Even if it's only the difference between a 0-12 loss or a 2-12 loss, I consider being directly responsible for the destruction of 1/6 the enemy team a significant impact. If those were both KMDDs and not yoinks, you probably ended with at least an equal rating.

[maniacos]

Wintersdark, on 26 March 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

What the hell are you talking about?

You noticed that I answered to two people

[maniacos]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 March 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

You shouldn't have picked just one, though,

I picked one because it had the aspect I answered to which was in the other examples too but less significant.

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I consider being directly responsible for the destruction of 1/6 the enemy team a significant impact

And with 2 kills you hardly get your team to a win, especially when it been not the best players of the enemy team, which you can not know before.

[Y E O N N E]

maniacos, on 26 March 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

I picked one because it had the aspect I answered to which was in the other examples too but less significant.


And with 2 kills you hardly get your team to a win, especially when it been not the best players of the enemy team, which you can not know before.

Does it matter? You said significant impact, not win. As long as you make it a pattern to have a significant impact, you increase your chances at winning and eventually you will be in a place with more reliable team mates (and enemies).

Basically: get good, do good. I have seen players like wUcKteC literally carry games from 3-10 to 12-10. It was kind of awesome.

[DaZur]

The answer is simple... Two rating systems. One PSR for personal rating and one TSR for team rating.

MM then can draw from 2 qualifiers when forming teams.

[Coolant]

I agree, it should be based on personal performance and not whether your team wins or loses. Not sure the thinking behind it...

[Catra Lanis]

Why not compare your match score to your teams average? 20% below you drop, 40% or more below you drop more, 120% you rise 140% or more you rise much more, else you stay where you are.

[maniacos]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 March 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

Does it matter? You said significant impact, not win. As long as you make it a pattern to have a significant impact, you increase your chances at winning and eventually you will be in a place with more reliable team mates (and enemies).

Yes it does matter if you dare to read my starting post which says that it's plain bs that your PSR sinks even when you do more than 300 damage in a 24 alpha light or medium because your team loses and your PSR rises when you do 100 dmg in a >40 alpha heavy just because your team wins.

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Basically: get good, do good. I have seen players like wUcKteC literally carry games from 3-10 to 12-10. It was kind of awesome.

That's no argument. You can not compare the two matches where one of the what ever top players somehow did something awesome to the average player and reason a whole system with the occasional lucky shots of 0.0xx% of the playerbase.

Edited by maniacos, 26 March 2016 - 12:41 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Compared to Elo, PSR is great because its so easy to get a tier 1, it fills up the MM with potatoes for the good players to farm and it doesn't take very long

[Ghogiel]

maniacos, on 26 March 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

Nope exactly not. Your personal performance has almost nothing to do with your team's performance in PUG queue. Might be different in premades but not in oridinary Quick Play.

lel no.

Like he said. If you are good you will win. I can hold over a 3 W/L in pugs in mediums, So it's just total luck and not the 5KDR and 500+ average DMG?

[ExplicitContent]

I agree with them rewarding team play more than personal achievement, but I do feel that the gap could be closed a bit.

Everyone will continue to complain about the PSR though and it will continue to feel flawed unless pilots are ranked per chassis. Some players are excellent heavy or assault pilots and can't play lights worth a damn (like me). If a couple pilots on your team are doing this, playing in mechs that they aren't as skilled in, and nobody on the other team is, the matches will feel unbalanced and will result in rollstomp.

I don't understand why anyone really wants to climb though, unless it is to get out of T5 and dealing with some of the brand new player antics.

[Appogee]

Why care about PSR at all, when the matchmaker has more release valves than Hoover Dam, and they're all permanently open...?

Edited by Appogee, 26 March 2016 - 02:27 PM.

[stocky0904]

Strange discussion!

PSR is no ranking system and was never ment to be one. Its whole purpose is about getting more balanced matches. And in my opinion it works ok. There are a lot less stomps and more close matches than before (in the last 2.5 years). Im talking about solo pug matches here.

As far as i know there will be real leaderboards for mech classes or chassis sometimes in the future, So everybody can show who ever is interested what a skillful player he is!

[Krivvan]

maniacos, on 26 March 2016 - 05:16 AM, said:

When I am in a medium or light with 24 alpha and do like 350 or more damage in a match, my rating still sinks because the team lost the match.

Not commenting about any other part of the post, but 350 is relatively average for a medium or light, it's not a monster high score. 500 or 600+ more accurately describes a good medium or light game in terms of damage.

[Ano]

Alistair Winter, on 26 March 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

The logic is that it will not be fair on a match-by-match basis, but it will be fair when you look at hundreds or thousands of matches as a whole. Which is what it takes for people to reach the high tiers anyway.

{...lots more sensible stuff...}

My main complaint with PSR is that people can easily skate to Tier 1 by just playing group queue a lot, if they're in a good unit. This is the same problem as we used to have with Elo, because some of the high-and-mighty top Elo players weren't really that impressive in the solo queue, in my experience. Some people are very good individually, but not so good teamplayers. And vice versa. (Incidentally, same as most team games / team sports)

That last bit is the kicker -- and I don't think there's an easy solution to the problem, as it's a fairly generic problem across lots of games (video and otherwise) and if there was a good solution in the wild, we'd know.

[MischiefSC]

Real problem with PSR is that it does work. It measures your ability to help your team win matches.

This is a team game. You are in a 12man team every single match you play. Not understanding that and wanting to somehow divorce your value from your impact on the team is the basis of the problem.

Good players are a benefit to the team and are more likely to drive a win. Over time those odds play out and it impacts psr. The problem is how many people don't get what that is or means and want rewarded for using their team like meat shields, sandbagging the first half of the match to avoid damage, vulturing kills, etc.

This is a team game. There is no solo option. Just people trying to play solo in a team game, doing poorly and then being upset.

[MonkeyCheese]

And here i am just hovering between 5% of T3 and 95% of T4 (i have gone up and down from 4 to 3 a few times now) regardless of my effort cus of this super system, i got a ss of a game yesterday where i did something like 500-600 damage and other stuff yet stayed even for a loss and another screenshot of me in a 12jj tag/flamer spider (i had a dark ragey night...) where i did 5damage and ganked a kill yet cus the team won my rank went up.

Then there is the light mech side of this.

And dont start me on this rank goes up and down becuase of team win/loss thing PLUS this new gamemode domination where people refuse to even play the gamemode and go anywhere near the big green circle on the map.

[Rocket2Uranus]

lol one of many broken game mechanics of MWO.