108 replies to this topic

[Odins Fist]

Cheaters are immature, bottom feeding, no account, persons.. "PERIOD"
.
I have never cheated, ran a hack, nothing, on any online multiplayer game, anyone that does needs to have their serial key, and any future serial key for any online multiplayer game banned for no less than 1 year, based on their I.P. and whatever other identifying qualification that would be needed to do so..
I have "BANNED", or gotten globally banned many people for this on the servers that my "CLAN" has rented and admined, and our Allied Clan servers... I think Punkbuster could be "A-LOT" better, but sometimes submitting screen shots, is all you can do.
BTW people do "PAY" for hacks that most anti cheat services cannot identify right away..
.
Aimbotters, and Wall hacks are for chumps..

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Having some experience in this matter from my pre teen years, I can tell you there are two prime types of cheaters. I personally find cheating, especially in a competitive bracket dishonorable. I've always believed in abiding by the rules for my wins and that's how I've have the most fun now that I'm older and find the worth in doing things all by myself.


there are the ones that flock to the competitive scene. the act of cheating itself isn't exactly fun, but the attention recieved for "being good" is, and honestly, only the ones that pollute the competitive scene and get caught annoy me. This sounds shady as hell and will probably get me some guff for saying but I feel that cheating is a healty part of competitive play in games and sports of all shapes and forms. and could even be considred an artform in itself. Yes it's a dastardly thing to do, but managing to go for years without getting caught in a respectable competitive game is an impressive feat, ESPECIALLY if you attend lans. If you do get caught however, you deserve everything you recieve.



and there are the pub crawlers, these actually come in two sub types, those who do it to make others angry. for "lulz". and the competitive lite version, who do it for the "wow you're pretty good" responses. the latter are quite subtle and takes some stalking to catch. The latter doesn't bother me as much, especially in pub games since I consider pub games to be primarily about having fun without (overly)harrassing others into leaving.


and honestly, only the ones that pollute the competitive scene and get caught annoy me. This sounds shady as hell and will probably get me some guff for saying but I feel that cheating is a healty part of competitive play in games and sports of all shapes and forms. and could even be considred an artform in itself. Yes it's a dastardly thing to do, but managing to go for years without getting caught in a respectable competitive game is an impressive feat, ESPECIALLY if you attend lans. If you do get caught however, you deserve everything you recieve.

[Otto Cannon]

I think for most people there's a balance when gaming; if you lose it's slightly annoying, but when you win fairly it's a huge buzz.
For some people though, it's a different balance.
If you have low self esteem and a damaged personality then the gratification of winning can be outweighed by the massive crippling levels of butthurt that you feel if you lose. For these people it makes more sense to get a smaller satisfaction from winning in exchange for never having to face defeat.

[sumdumfu]

i agree with the guy that was mocking the sefl-esteem crowd. if you're a sociopath, it has nothing to do with self-worth. the concept of right and wrong is just foreign to you, and you don't understand the concept of empathy - you lack the ability to see and feel how others might react to you actions. basically you were just born without a conscience. for a sociopath it's not about filling an emotional void; they just don't see it as wrong, it's simple as that. that dude who posted about hacking in UO and counterstrike out of boredom is a perfect example. didn't care about the right/wrong, didn't occur to him that he was ******* off a bunch of people and ruining their experience. just cared about alleviating his boredom. if he starts torturing little animals i'd be truly worried.

[Belorion]

sumdumfu, on 14 July 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

i agree with the guy that was mocking the sefl-esteem crowd. if you're a sociopath, it has nothing to do with self-worth. the concept of right and wrong is just foreign to you, and you don't understand the concept of empathy - you lack the ability to see and feel how others might react to you actions. basically you were just born without a conscience. for a sociopath it's not about filling an emotional void; they just don't see it as wrong, it's simple as that. that dude who posted about hacking in UO and counterstrike out of boredom is a perfect example. didn't care about the right/wrong, didn't occur to him that he was ******* off a bunch of people and ruining their experience. just cared about alleviating his boredom. if he starts torturing little animals i'd be truly worried.

Actually, if you are a sociopath, it has everything to do with self esteem. Poor self esteem is the root of mental illness. Chronic liars, cheaters, sociopaths, personality disorders, are all symptoms of the same thing. Most of them are abused to some level or another when they are growing up.

[Ted Steiner]

Wait wait wait you're saying poor self esteem is the root of mental illnesses such as psychopathy and anti-social personality disorder? You must be a psychiatrist (not one who knows much about that field though evidently)

[sicarii]

I think the anonymity and lack of any real repercussions is what makes cheating in an online MMO "easier" for some folks. If your account gets banned…screw it, make another one. Plus, do you really know the people you are cheating against? No – so you are somewhat removed from the process. When playing or competing face to face against someone and your cheating is discovered there is a whole myriad of punishments available from legal recourse to a good-ole smack in the mouth. The only way this will ever get solved is if there is a good legal HAMMER game devs can put on someone. Perhaps if a company can show revenue lost due to a cheater they can go after them legally. Who knows. Until then cheaters will exist because, deep down, the internet is the one medium where people can ignore social rules and be totally selfish.

[Otto Cannon]

Ted Steiner, on 14 July 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

Wait wait wait you're saying poor self esteem is the root of mental illnesses such as psychopathy and anti-social personality disorder? You must be a psychiatrist (not one who knows much about that field though evidently)

You think he's wrong? You must be a psychiatrist (not one who knows much about that field though evidently).

[MajorLeeHung]

TROLL!!

[Belorion]

Ted Steiner, on 14 July 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

Wait wait wait you're saying poor self esteem is the root of mental illnesses such as psychopathy and anti-social personality disorder? You must be a psychiatrist (not one who knows much about that field though evidently)

No, not a psychiatrist. I have a degree in Human Computer Interaction, which required a lot of psychology and anthro classes. More geared to Cognitive Psychology.

I was however married to someone with Borderline Personality Disorder for a time.

[Pht]

Cheaters are lazy, or obsessive compulsiuve about not losing, or just enjoy the rush of having an illicit edge over everyone else.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bloody Moon, on 14 July 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

I think there are possibly two important reasons why someone would cheat:

1. He cares little about the how he only wants to win.
2. He does it only to troll others.

Then again i can only guess as i've never cheated before.

^^This sums it up^^

Cheaters care ONLY to WIN as simply and easily as possible, Cheaters are selfish TWATS who care NOTHING about ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES! They care ONLY to WIN, regardless of if it ruins someone elses enjoyment, they want that WIN...the mentions of how people look up to great stat players is another thing, they want to pad those stats to try and make themselves look good....but yeah, Cheaters absolutely irritate the **** out of me, just as much as DUMBASS lazy twats in games who dont seem to have a remote grasp of how to play the game...

Cheaters and Idiots...both are why I hate online gaming...I come on to play to win, not cheat, I do not cheat in MP games...I aim to win and when im getting losses due to cheaters cheating me off the field or idiots making dork *** moves to lose the game, that irritates me to no end, game or not..lol...

IF MWO players go the way of WoT, I will, im sure, cease playing this game with any regularity as well...I hate WoT's players more so then the game itself...If MWO has cheaters on TOP of idiots, then uuugh, I might never even start....

Lol I also love it in games when I legitimately RAPE someone and I get hackused of cheating...happened time and again in BF2142, BF2, BFBC2(thought not as often)...every 5th game it was a hackusation...though I never once used a cheat..didnt need them obviously...I was raping just fine without them lol.

[Atavism]

I think another reason is the "welfare trophy" culture that some people grow up in. If you haven't lived it yourself, you've at least heard of it. Where every Little League team gets a trophy, regardless of whether they win or lose. Where the worst student in school gets a "most improved " award.

The problem is, this doesn't teach people how to win. It doesn't teach them that winning is something worth working for. It just teaches them that they are entitled to the rewards normally associated with wining. Then they suddenly find themselves in a situation where that reward that they've been taught to expect isn't just handed to them. So they have a choice, either work hard for it, which they've spent their life leaning they don't need to do, or they can just cheat and take it anyway.

Edited by Atavism, 14 July 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[Insidious Johnson]

Wow, I've seen everything in this thread. I do mean everything. From an occupy wall street "philosopher" who thinks the opposite of immoral is "more" while amorally ranting, to admissions of cheating in single player mode and beyond, I've seen the moral "superiors" teeter totter on gleefully rationalized jack boots. Even the op wants to go OG, no thread thugs allowed. This whole thread and the people in it are just so much troll bait to anyone who'd dare challenge the precept that cheaters are bad. What is systematically getting buried here is that they are people. They contractually enter into an agreement with MWO on terms of service. It will be handled and covered there. MWO has stated they will not discuss their proprietary anti-cheating measures any where at any time. Let the cold rational bonds of that arrangement hold them accountable, not some horde of patients looking for a shrink. PGI will get some medieval lawyers, whose very crotch crunching existence that many posters here crave, and get all magic missile down in the dungeon on some cheaters for you, okay? So key things to walk away from this discussion as a participant: Sprint for the closest help of the most pressing kind; Let PGI handle their business; Don't make anyone else's business your business. Now go handle your business.

[Deathz Jester]

Cheaters cheat because they have nothing better to do, and somehow feel like its justifiable.



Honestly I'd like it if PGI did to cheaters what Rockstar started doing.

http://www.examiner.com/article/rockstar-launches-cheater-pool-for-max-payne-3-to-stop-hacking-and-cheaters



They make cheaters play with other cheaters, basically living hell I would think, but I dont cheat so who knows maybe they all get off on playing with each other.

[sumdumfu]

Belorion, on 14 July 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Actually, if you are a sociopath, it has everything to do with self esteem. Poor self esteem is the root of mental illness. Chronic liars, cheaters, sociopaths, personality disorders, are all symptoms of the same thing. Most of them are abused to some level or another when they are growing up.

i don't know about that dude. if you're an expert and in fact know for sure then i defer to your expertise, but from what i've learned, sociopathy is something people are born with and is exhibited very early in development. self esteem is something that comes and goes, but i've heard numerous times from experts that 'you can't grow a conscience'. some people are just born without one. not all disorders stem from self-esteem issues; human psychology is not that simple.

[Mattrixx]

Depends a bit how we define cheating as such. Many of us have different views on what exactly includes or is cheating as per say.

In games, I have tested a few times what a cheat does and each time I have been left with an unfinished taste in my mouth and a feeling of not really accomplishing anything by it. And have stopped doing it when I want to enjoy a game. If I am testing out something in a game and not really playing it past the point, if it an FPS, I have already gone I might use a cheat to see what happens with what.

But when I want to enjoy a game I play on the hardest possible setting and don't use cheats while trying to get through the game. Dead Space games for ones are very much fun on the hardest settings without cheating.

As for real life analogies? Someone here pulled a few examples of real life stuff as "cheating". Well, depends again how you define cheating. I would not categorize real life and games into the same box of cheating parameters.

1) Musket warfare. So if you can think of another way of using your weapon then the silly way your opponent does is cheating? Lets see if I can find a MW similarity for this. You stand there out in the field and shoot anything that moves. I circle around a bit and pop just above a bridge or some other cover to your side and put a shell into the knee cap of your mech and pop back out again. And then move around a bit and put another shell on the other knee cap, while you are still standing there, or barely moving by limping speed now, and this eliminate you from the game. Is that cheating?

2) Blitz Krieg. By passing the enemy fortifications. Lets see if we can find a similarity again in MW. You and your buddies are slugging it out with some of my buddies on a bottle neck area of a map. I happen to have a jump jet equipped mech that has enough boost in the to go to the top, while none of yours does. So I jump on top of the ridge and speed along it, by-passing your entire bottleneck line and then run to your base and cap. Cheating again am I?

3) Guerilla warfare. Lets go with MW similarity again, since we love these. You and your buddies advance against on a relatively open area with maybe a few low ridges and forested area there and maybe a small townlet near by. Your scout does an excelent job of running fast in front of you like a squirrel on steroids not finding anything to alarm, maybe an enemy scout turning tail and running away. And you and your friendly heavies and assaults follow in his wake laughing how the enemy scout high tailed it from there.
Now, you come to this nice seemingly open and empty of enemy mechs area. And low and behold suddenly, once you've passed the entire area lights up with a **** ton of say medium or heavy mechs all under heavy ECM and shut down procedures. Their first aim? take out your arms and legs from the sides and back. Alpha strikes on the knee caps and maybe trading off a few shots before seeking cover again before your team can return fire properly. Cheating again I see.


As to aim bots. I've seen those in action. In America's Army. I was watching a friend of mine play America's Army and we kept seeing this one player doing almost impossibly fast snap turns and shots on the heads of his enemies on several games.
My friend got close to this fellow and behind him in an air duck. And just when he started shooting he popped out and put a bullet in his head. Now, before he actually died he had already turned around 180 degrees and died there with my friends shot on him. And next thing you know he, this aim bot user, is screaming "aim bot aim bot. He's using aim bot." over the chat for everyone to see. Now what he hadn't noticed was that the server admin had shown up a few games before and had been following him.
All we see is on the local wide chat is, "This is the admin. Shut it cheater. You've been had." and the next thing we see on the chat screen is his name and "kicked from server" with a permanent ban to the server. This was before the Punk Buster program too.

Funny stuff. Almost everyone on the enemy team too were laughing at this and at the cheater.

Now, while some do seem to like to cheat. What you recon they feel when they get outed and then not only are they labeled as cheaters but laughed and ridiculed as well? Now that is something that'll make you feel really good I bet.

[Thoman Coston]

Grugore, on 14 July 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

Every game has them. Even Mechwarrior. Cheaters. The question for me is why? This is just me talking, but If I had to cheat in order to compete with others, I wouldn't get any satisfaction out of it. Why do they do it? How would it feel to win knowing you're only second best? Is it a desire to dominate at all cost? Do most of them even consider it cheating? Do they do it just to **** people off? Why?

This is a serious question, and I'd like it to be treated as such. No trolls, please. Let me amend that. Trolls will be shot on site!

I can think of 2 reasons:
1.No self respect.
2. Childish. -> " Let's see if they catch me, it is ok if I don't get caught."

[Tabrin]

I'm surprised that there's four pages on this topic. It takes a cheater to understand a cheater. It's like trying to comprehend why the "Knock knock, Hello have you welcomed Jesus into your heart?" people don't get it when I tell them I'm not gay and don't have a Mexican boyfriend.

Edited by Tabrin, 14 July 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[AUBEme]

a win has no value unless you earn it.

the right way...

Edited by AUBEme, 14 July 2012 - 11:39 PM.