86 replies to this topic

[Sigilum Sanctum]

1. Grasshopper
2. Warhammer
3. Black Knight
4. Marauder

[Roadkill]

Metus regem, on 27 March 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

1) Warhammer (My go-to Mech in TT, and I love it here too)
2) Marauder (Tough as nails)
3)Black Knight (too much reliance on quirks)
4) Grasshopper (never really liked the Grasshopper)

Seconded.

In my case, it's the Black Widow that puts the Warhammer on top. 4 x AC/5 is just brutal with my play style. The 3R sneaks the Marauder into second place running 3 x AC/5, 2 x PPC.

Black Knight gets third even though I don't have any because for me the Grasshopper was excedingly meh. I don't fear Grasshoppers when I see them on the Battlefield, but the Black Knight can be a formidable opponent.

[Gas Guzzler]

These mechs have different roles, its difficult to really rank them, but if I had to rank their usefulness along with how often that usefulness would be relevant, I would go:

1. Black Knight/Warhammer/Grasshopper
2. Marauder

[MischiefSC]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

These mechs have different roles, its difficult to really rank them, but if I had to rank their usefulness along with how often that usefulness would be relevant, I would go:

1. Black Knight/Warhammer/Grasshopper
2. Marauder

Yeah, but why? Variants? Builds?

What role would you swap out a BK for a WHR? GHR has high mounts and JJs which is a toolset all its own. Are there legit ballistic-based builds for the WHR that you'd take over a BK? Is it the same energy build just some other advantage? 5 tons left over so you can upgrade the Locust to a 'Mando in your deck?

I admit - I expected to get a lot of uniformity in the response given the general consensus of 'BKs are pretty amazing' but in practice, even among competent players, there's almost no consistency save in putting Marauder down a few steps while saying it's still fun, tanky and amazing.

The Clans are pretty ****** for new Heavies. You can't introduce something to replace a TBR/HBR/EBJ without involving stupid levels of power-creep. Even for giggles and variety you've got the MDD or, if you're a masochist, the Summoner.

IS however has always had a blank spot over 65 tons. A brief shining poptart time for the Phract 3D but that's it.

The GHR came out but everyone went 'meh' and moved on. Now it's crept back in and stolen some love and respect. BK came out DOA, then got survival perks and is pretty sexy. The MAD and WHR however are frankenmechs - to the core, nothing about them screams the same synergy that the BK does. Yet they're getting a *lot* of love from people. A lot of respect and I've had some run-ins with MAD and WHRs in CW and QP that knocked me back on my heels.

Trying to figure out where the MAD and WHR fit. I'm probably going to break down and by the WHR unless CW3 is absolute ****. I bought the MADs but just haven't had a lot of time to play them. I'm finding it's actually NOT like.... any of my other mechs. That pleases me because it's also been a good performer. Just trying to see where people rank and value them.

Edited by MischiefSC, 28 March 2016 - 03:33 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

MischiefSC, on 28 March 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

Yeah, but why? Variants? Builds?

What role would you swap out a BK for a WHR? GHR has high mounts and JJs which is a toolset all its own. Are there legit ballistic-based builds for the WHR that you'd take over a BK? Is it the same energy build just some other advantage? 5 tons left over so you can upgrade the Locust to a 'Mando in your deck?

Well, the BK (6 or 7-L, depending on what side of the train tracks you live on) essentially does what the WHM-6D does, only slightly better in my opinion, but the WHM BW can do XL 280 with 4 AC5 which is more of a DPS/suppression role, that could complement Maulers in a comp drop very nicely. The Grasshopper-5H is the king of ER LL trading heavies in comp matches, and it also has some other builds that work well with the jump jets and higher mounts.

The only potentially valuable Marauder I see is the 3R, as it can do 3 AC5 plus 4 MLs with a STD engine, and its quirks lend itself towards a long range ballistic mech. I believe its AC5s do optimal damage at 775 meters with a range module, so it could hunker down and spit out good damage at range without exposing too much of itself, and it could use its relatively slim torsos to tank like a Stalker at that range. This is my theory, but as neither the MAD or the WHM are available for C-Bills, they haven't been options for the competitive matches that I have done, so we haven't really had the time to experiment with that.

[Ted Wayz]

1. Warhammer - love me some PPC.
2. Marauder - slightly smaller King Crab.
3. Grasshopper - best mobility of the bunch but not much else.
4. Black Knight

Black Knight 4th due to its fubar nature on release and my subsequent spending of GXP to basic them and not touching it since. It looks great in the mech bay though and from what I hear it is something to behold now. Maybe I will take one for a spin.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

The Quickdraw 5K is the king of ER LL trading heavies in comp matches

FTFY, Grasshopper's ability to trade with ERLL is wholly dependent on the map being favorable to the lower mounts the mech has.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 March 2016 - 04:50 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Well, the BK (6 or 7-L, depending on what side of the train tracks you live on) essentially does what the WHM-6D does, only slightly better in my opinion, but the WHM BW can do XL 280 with 4 AC5 which is more of a DPS/suppression role, that could complement Maulers in a comp drop very nicely. The Grasshopper-5H is the king of ER LL trading heavies in comp matches, and it also has some other builds that work well with the jump jets and higher mounts.

The only potentially valuable Marauder I see is the 3R, as it can do 3 AC5 plus 4 MLs with a STD engine, and its quirks lend itself towards a long range ballistic mech. I believe its AC5s do optimal damage at 775 meters with a range module, so it could hunker down and spit out good damage at range without exposing too much of itself, and it could use its relatively slim torsos to tank like a Stalker at that range. This is my theory, but as neither the MAD or the WHM are available for C-Bills, they haven't been options for the competitive matches that I have done, so we haven't really had the time to experiment with that.

Just did my first match in a 3R, Polar Highlands. Tried that -

put up 461 damage on a team where the next closest was 264 and we lost 12-2, but it was the stand-out best performer. One of the ballistics is a bit lower so I needed to peek a bit more than I'd like but even without a single basic unlocked and my first drop in the mech it was like a faster, more maneuverable Banshee 3E just with 4 MLs instead of 2LLs/2MLs. The speed tradeoff feels worth it to me in that regard, even without anything unlocked it was a great DPS heavy from 600-300m.

[Hit the Deck]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

The Grasshopper-5H is the king of ER LL trading heavies in comp matches, and it also has some other builds that work well with the jump jets and higher mounts.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 March 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

FTFY, Grasshopper's ability to trade with ERLL is wholly dependent on the map being favorable to the lower mounts the mech has.

The GHR variant which carries ERLLs the best is the 5P IMO:



Because of those 4 high-ish energy mounts. None of the other variants can do this. 5P is also "quirked for ERLLs" so to say, because of the -15% to laser duration.

Build: GHR-5P

Edited by Hit the Deck, 28 March 2016 - 05:46 PM.

[Deathlike]

Hit the Deck, on 28 March 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

The GHR variant which carries ERLLs the best is the 5P IMO:



Because of those 4 high-ish energy mounts. None of the other variants can do this. 5P is also "quirked for ERLLs" so to say, because of the -15% to laser duration.

Build: GHR-5P

Heat generation quirk is actually why the 5P is not given a second thought.

Overheating is what the 5P does best and even if you remove some of the ISERLL, you will be doing more work in the 5H than that the 5P any day of the week.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 March 2016 - 05:49 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Deathlike, on 28 March 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

Heat generation quirk is actually why the 5P is not given a second thought.

Overheating is what the 5P does best and even if you remove some of the ISERLL, you will be doing more work in the 5H than that the 5P any day of the week.

A valid point which I have been considering about. The thing is, it used to have more range on its quirks IIRC so the heat is not that big of a problem because you are shooting from far far away.

EDIT: well, it had +5% more range before the latest IS energy range readjustment. As of now, ERLL on this variant has optimal range of 810 m with a range module installed.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 28 March 2016 - 06:13 PM.

[Deathlike]

Hit the Deck, on 28 March 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:

A valid point which I have been considering about. The thing is, it used to have more range on its quirks IIRC so the heat is not that big of a problem because you are shooting from far far away.

You want more sustained fire. I know you can get away with large alphas in pub play... but when you're getting serious, you really want the ERLL to be the suppression weapon of choice (if not to kill stuff with).

[Ultimax]

Hit the Deck, on 28 March 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

The GHR variant which carries ERLLs the best is the 5P IMO:



Because of those 4 high-ish energy mounts. None of the other variants can do this. 5P is also "quirked for ERLLs" so to say, because of the -15% to laser duration.

Build: GHR-5P

I have mine like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...819a8929366c0c8

Forgoing any short ranged weapons, and getting a 19th DHS.


It's solid on maps like HPG, Grim Plexus, Polar, etc.

Still prefer the 5H though.

Edited by Ultimax, 28 March 2016 - 06:28 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Hit the Deck, on 28 March 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

The GHR variant which carries ERLLs the best is the 5P IMO:



Because of those 4 high-ish energy mounts. None of the other variants can do this. 5P is also "quirked for ERLLs" so to say, because of the -15% to laser duration.

Build: GHR-5P

But the 5P doesn't have -15% heat generation, which is huge

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 March 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

FTFY, Grasshopper's ability to trade with ERLL is wholly dependent on the map being favorable to the lower mounts the mech has.

I don't know, its hard to argue with 54 damage vs 36 at 810m

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 28 March 2016 - 06:29 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Ultimax, on 28 March 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

I have mine like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...819a8929366c0c8

And mine is actually configured like thisGHR-5P (max engine with a command console *gasp*), not the one posted by me before.

[ninthstreet]

I have all of these mechs between this alt and my main. That being said I would put the Black Knight as last. Why? Because its totally dependent on quirks for its tier level. Without those quirks it would maybe max out at tier2. If I was a new player and wanting to invest longterm the best thing you can do is look at number of hardpoints, hardpoint placement in relation to cockpit, and hitboxes. Taking that into account the warhammer and grasshopper clearly have the black knight beat. Granted it is the best IS heavy and arguably the best heavy in the game. But we all know how that goes when you depend on quirks. Case in point Thunderbolt 9S, Wolverine 6K, Dragon 1N, etc. Russ gets a twelve pack in him and down the drain goes hours of grinding when he changes the quirks. Look at a mechs hardpoint height, hitboxes, and number of hardpoints and decide whether its a good buy. The warhammer and grasshopper have both of these and arent dependent on quirks while the blackknight is totally dependent on quirks. Warhammer or Grasshopper are the better deal longterm.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

I don't know, its hard to argue with 54 damage vs 36 at 810m

Unless you are mounting 6 ERLL (which is better off on a BK), then I think you meant 45 damage, which the Quickdraw's higher mounts give it the advantage despite the lower alpha.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 March 2016 - 06:44 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 March 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

Unless you are mounting 6 ERLL (which is better off on a BK), then I think you meant 45 damage, which the Quickdraw's higher mounts give it the advantage despite the lower alpha.

Nah, 6ER LL GHR, I meant 54 damage.

[Karl Marlow]

1 Warhammer. I've had some of my best games ever running around I. The 6D
2 Grasshopper. Decent mobility. I do well in it but it feels a little squishy on occasion.
3 Marader. I've honestly not played this on much. I never really got a feel for it.
4 Black Knight. I don't own one. I will say they can be a ***** to take down though.

[MischiefSC]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

But the 5P doesn't have -15% heat generation, which is huge



I don't know, its hard to argue with 54 damage vs 36 at 810m

You know I ran into that on Panthers. I was running the 10K with 2 LPLs in CW and doing pretty good in it. Looking over the quirks though I saw the 8Z seemed to have some better quirks, just not the reduced heat generation and I thought 'Well it runs pretty cool anyway, seems like a good trade'.

Oh hell no. It was ****.

A 15% heat gen reduction is make or break. Better than a little more range or faster cooldown. A 10% cooldown reduction on LPLs (or most lasers) is barely noticeable. It'll play out in a DPS brawl but for poking, not really. 15% heat? Holy ****. For an energy boat that's make or break.

ThomasMarik, on 28 March 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

1 Warhammer. I've had some of my best games ever running around I. The 6D
2 Grasshopper. Decent mobility. I do well in it but it feels a little squishy on occasion.
3 Marader. I've honestly not played this on much. I never really got a feel for it.
4 Black Knight. I don't own one. I will say they can be a ***** to take down though.

Another Whammy First vote!

What do you run on it? What does the 6D do for you that performs better than the others?