28 replies to this topic

[DovisKhan]

LRMs have tons of counter measures, ECM, AMS - these at least take up tonnage, but most of all Radar Deprivation Module


Why not some counters for Lasers and Ballistics, that way you'd sink some tons into getting those counter measures and sacrifice some damage, it would increase lifetime on every mech, a thing that most of us here asked for.


You'd also not need things like ghost heat to balance anything.

[sycocys]

Armor + XL engines.

Also seismic since you may have wanted a module counter as well.

Edited by sycocys, 29 March 2016 - 05:09 AM.

[Lynx7725]

There is. Reflective armour vs. lasers, Reactive armour vs. autocannons, SWARM vs legs. AMS actually are supposed to work against SRMs too...

[El Bandito]

Lynx7725, on 29 March 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

There is. Reflective armour vs. lasers, Reactive armour vs. autocannons, SWARM vs legs. AMS actually are supposed to work against SRMs too...

AMS does work against SRMs, to much lesser extent, due to SRM velocity buff. And works against SSRMs and NARC.

As for Reflective and Reactive armors, it should be a thing. For example, in CW Boreal Vault map, people might bring a lot of energy weapons so the attackers can try to bring in Reflective armor. Or bringing Reactive armor on hot maps such as Vitric Forge.

Wish we had the Blue Shield PFD during the poptart craze. Would have been effective against PPCs.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 March 2016 - 05:16 AM.

[DovisKhan]

Lynx7725, on 29 March 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

There is. Reflective armour vs. lasers, Reactive armour vs. autocannons, SWARM vs legs. AMS actually are supposed to work against SRMs too...

Well reflective and reactive armor is not in the game, that's the point, I wish they were though

El Bandito, on 29 March 2016 - 05:10 AM, said:

And AMS does work against SRMs, to much lesser extend, due to SRM velocity buff. And works against SSRMs and NARC.

Never realized it worked against NARC as well, ye AMS does protect against SRMs a bit, but it's hardly what you'd call a dedicated countermeasure, since the effect is barely there

[Lynx7725]

Which is what I hope will be addressed in the next town hall. The current set of weapons and equipment needs a bit of improvement to keep the builds fresh and interesting.

[DovisKhan]

Lynx7725, on 29 March 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

Which is what I hope will be addressed in the next town hall. The current set of weapons and equipment needs a bit of improvement to keep the builds fresh and interesting.

That'd be awesome, though they still have a lot on their plate, so I won't hold my breath for it. Graphics engine upgrade will very likely be on top, since it will put the game on radar for some fresh audience more than a new feature like these, that already present players want.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

graphics engine upgrade, ingame systems overhaul, netcode fixes, convergence system, new weapon systems.... etc etc etc...

none of this stuff can even happen unless PGI hires a number of qualified programmers - its way too much work and large portion of existing systems need a massive overhaul - i dont think they even have the documentation for half the stuff in the game at this point

[kapusta11]

Reactive armor gives protection against missiles not ballistics.

[Lynx7725]

kapusta11, on 29 March 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

Reactive armor gives protection against missiles not ballistics.

Then.. Hardened, was it?

[GonaDie]

kapusta11, on 29 March 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

Reactive armor gives protection against missiles not ballistics.

Well, it DOES protect from AP rounds.

[kapusta11]

Lynx7725, on 29 March 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Then.. Hardened, was it?

That one gives double armor, which works against any damage type, albeit at a huge mobility loss.

GonaDie, on 29 March 2016 - 06:31 AM, said:

Well, it DOES protect from AP rounds.

Yeah, but Heavy Gauss and Rotary ACs don't use AP ammo.

Edited by kapusta11, 29 March 2016 - 06:38 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Reflective/Reactive/hardened armor wouldn't make too much of a difference I would think. Sure there is a lot of laser vomit, but there are a lot of boating ballistic mechs (and even LRM mechs right now).

So you equip reflective armor and hold up to a laser barrage a bit better, your armor is weak to ballistics and the 4 Ultra5 Mauler tears through you like paper.

IDK, the armor types seem more gimmicky than anything (especially in quick play).

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 29 March 2016 - 06:35 AM.

[Lynx7725]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 March 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

So you equip reflective armor and hold up to a laser barrage a bit better, your armor is weak to ballistics and the 4 Ultra5 Mauler tears through you like paper.

Yeah but think about it coupled with laser heat sinks on a night map. Disco ball, man.

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 March 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

IDK, the armor types seem more gimmicky than anything (especially in quick play).

On TT they are. TT you face too many possible variation for a single "Protection from XXX" pony to work reliably.

In MWO? Maybe not. With the amount of laser vomit currently, reflective armour isn't necessarily a bad choice.

Edited by Lynx7725, 29 March 2016 - 06:38 AM.

[Kroete]

DovisKhan, on 29 March 2016 - 05:03 AM, said:

Why not some counters for Lasers and Ballistics, that way you'd sink some tons into getting those counter measures and sacrifice some damage, it would increase lifetime on every mech, a thing that most of us here asked for.

Because we have no UMU!
Just think about all the tears from the metawhores ...

http://www.sarna.net...aneuvering_Unit

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Yup, there should be countermeasures to every type of weapon. Some -10% dmg from... or something. Nothing drastic, just enough for the difference to be noticeable. Not only for the sake of variety, but for the game to balance itself to a degree. Any new meta would be automatically toned down by the fact that people not only load it, but also load countermeasures against it. Just like people started to equip AMS again lately to cope with overabundance of LRMs, thus partly fixing the problem themselves.

Also, it would be rather easy to implement. Just an additional upgrade buttons next to armor/heatsink/structure buttons that already exist, plus some changes in damage calculations.

A question to TT players, should reflective armor etc. cancel out ferro fibrous, or are they independent from one another?

[Tordin]

Lynx7725, on 29 March 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

There is. Reflective armour vs. lasers, Reactive armour vs. autocannons, SWARM vs legs. AMS actually are supposed to work against SRMs too...

You ninjaed my thoughts exactly.

I remember the option in MW4 to choose between ferro fibrous, reflective and reactive armor. I know its timeline are ahead of ours. Maybe even that armor tech.

But it makes sense. Take reflective armor in cold environments since many pilots will use heat based weaponry like lasers. And use reactive in hot environments since ballistics and missiles (well maybe less defence vs missiles, more heat and aoe transerred I guess) do much less heat than energy weapons. Ferro fibrous could be used in temperate climate. But in MWO they really should be worth to be taking, I almost never use it.

Edited by Tordin, 29 March 2016 - 07:39 AM.

[Roughneck Cobra]

Gentlemen, look at the Dev team, look at the game currently.

Theres a reason only LRM's are really on Counter measure ability, its a blind fire target lock, ballistics and lasers need line of sight.

Just saying it how it is, it'd be nice, but you're asking for something the current team would take 6 months even create, then another year to balance it.

Edited by Stryker Ezekiel, 29 March 2016 - 07:29 AM.

[Lynx7725]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 29 March 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

A question to TT players, should reflective armor etc. cancel out ferro fibrous, or are they independent from one another?

Armour types are nominally mutually exclusive; you choose one type or another. Some has more points per ton (default is 16/32 per ton, some are higher some are lower), some take up crit spaces but weight less, etc. etc.

There are rules for quiltwork armour, but let's not go there...

I just remembered. Hardened Armour is a Kurita hallmark. Heh. IIRC Those things are 8/16 points per ton but takes 2 damage to cross out 1 point. Effectively, due to the armour allocation methodology, it works out that you can carry double the armour you can currently, at a large cost to weight. A Hardened Assault mech would be a massive tank in MWO.

Stryker Ezekiel, on 29 March 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

Just saying it how it is, it'd be nice, but you're asking for something the current team would take 6 months even create, then another year to balance it.

I'd just point out that if you don't ask you'd never get it.

Tordin, on 29 March 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

But it makes sense. Take reflective armor in cold environments since many pilots will use heat based weaponry like lasers. And use reactive in hot environments since ballistics and missiles do much less heat than energy weapons. Ferro fibrous could be used in temperate climate. But in MWO they really should be worth to be taking, I almost never use it.

Well lore-wise replacing armour is a time-consuming affair -- it's not a coating or switch you pull, it's armour slabs you put on and pull off. The Astechs are going to hate you for this...

[Roughneck Cobra]

Lynx7725, on 29 March 2016 - 07:32 AM, said:

Armour types are nominally mutually exclusive; you choose one type or another. Some has more points per ton (default is 16/32 per ton, some are higher some are lower), some take up crit spaces but weight less, etc. etc.

There are rules for quiltwork armour, but let's not go there...

I just remembered. Hardened Armour is a Kurita hallmark. Heh. IIRC Those things are 8/16 points per ton but takes 2 damage to cross out 1 point. Effectively, due to the armour allocation methodology, it works out that you can carry double the armour you can currently, at a large cost to weight. A Hardened Assault mech would be a massive tank in MWO.



I'd just point out that if you don't ask you'd never get it.



Well lore-wise replacing armour is a time-consuming affair -- it's not a coating or switch you pull, it's armour slabs you put on and pull off. The Astechs are going to hate you for this...

True, but alots been asked as of late just to fix the game before its steam 'injection' wears off and those players walk, I admit it'd be fun, but we are so far away from it.