138 replies to this topic

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

Cyclops really is a smaller, weaker, faster Atlas. If the Cryhards hadn't whined their way out of InfoWar, it might have a legit place, but minus some buckwild quirks and ECM, I really don't see it being fantastic or even particularly good. Another opportunity missed, courtesy of the CoS UberComps who feel the only thing that should be in the game is whatever makes clicking a pixel and winning easiest.

(And yes, I am aware not every competitive player is against immersion, depth, infowar, etc. So if you aren't assume this is not referring to you and save us both some aggro)

I consider it an overweight underarmored 4/6 mech. AKA one of those mechs that got ruined by being 5 tons too heavy.

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 03 April 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

Well, you already have the King Crab for practically all of Gunslinger's possible builds (KGC also has 4 high energy hardpoints that you are interested in). Admittedly, it's 15 tons heavier and shaped differently.

EDIT: the Gunslinger can mount less tonnage robbing Class II JJs.

I'm hoping that the Gunslinger is going to be more XL friendly than the King Crab. In that case, it can use dual Gauss build while running much faster than the 100 ton mech. My XL Mauler with dual Gauss is having big success in the solo-q, but having Gauss in the torsi means a lot can go wrong, fast. Since Gunslinger has those Gauss in the arms, it won't be an issue.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 April 2016 - 06:28 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Cyclops > all, just deal with it!!!

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 03 April 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'm hoping that the Gunslinger is going to be more XL friendly than the King Crab. In that case, it can use dual Gauss build while running much faster than the 100 ton mech. My XL Mauler with dual Gauss is having big success in the solo-q, but having Gauss in the torsi means a lot can go wrong, fast. Since Gunslinger has those Gauss in the arms, it won't be an issue.

Well, the explosion can still transfer to the XL'ed ST since IS Mechs can't put CASE on the arms. The amount of damage varies though, because it first needs to destroy the arm it is mounted on.

But that's certainly a better alternative to an ST mounted Gauss.

Considering this, Clan Mechs which can put Gauss on the arms have the advantage because of whole body CASE, such as the Mad Cat Mk. II

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 03 April 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

Well, the explosion can still transfer to the XL'ed ST since IS Mechs can't put CASE on the arms. The amount of damage varies though, because it first needs to destroy the arm it is mounted on.

But that's certainly a better alternative to an ST mounted Gauss.

Considering this, Clan Mechs which can put Gauss on the arms have the advantage because of whole body CASE, such as the Mad Cat Mk. II

I really doubt anyone will shoot at the arms of a Gauss mech. For example, no one shoots at my Gauss Whale's arms where the Gauss are located, or Dakka Whale's arms, where I have 90% of the AC ammo stashed in there.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 April 2016 - 07:16 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

There isn't any point in shooting limbs on Assaults, even when you know that is where the ammo is located. The chance of an ammo explosion is only 10% so why bother with that?

[oldradagast]

Chimera11, on 02 April 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

I think the CTF-0XP is a good example of how little of a difference ECM can make for a mech that has bad hardpoints.

Agreed. It is a brutally good example. The 0XP is named such since that's about how much XP you'll get in battle using one. Terrible hardpoints that mostly hit rocks, all for ECM, which doesn't do you a lick of good if you have to expose 60%+ of your mech just to shoot something.

[cazidin]

Alright, Mechwarriors. Let's just take a step back here and let me ask this. Wouldn't the Cyclops be a good mech if it has a high engine cap, good hitboxes, good quirks AND looked good? Even if it has low hard points, like the Atlas, It can still brawl, like the Atlas. Right?

[Hit the Deck]

cazidin, on 03 April 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Alright, Mechwarriors. Let's just take a step back here and let me ask this. Wouldn't the Cyclops be a good mech if it has a high engine cap, good hitboxes, good quirks AND looked good? Even if it has low hard points, like the Atlas, It can still brawl, like the Atlas. Right?

It needs too much "fixing" to function as a wannabe Atlas. Rather than that, it's better to realize in MWO what it's good at, as a command 'Mech!

BTW at 90 tons, HGN and MAL can already brawl, though they lack Atlas level durability.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 03 April 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 03 April 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

I consider it an overweight underarmored 4/6 mech. AKA one of those mechs that got ruined by being 5 tons too heavy.

15-20 tons, probably.
ON1-K
Orion can be built identical to Cyclops (minus the extra IS) with 1.5 tons left over.
In fact I just built it into a 70 ton chassis, with 3025 tech.

Literally the only thing the 90 ton versions does better is melee, and has more structure. Of course, you're an idiot if you intentionally engage a 90 ton C&C vehicle with tissue paper armor in melee combat, soooooo...............

Also, tissue paper armor... plus 6 tons of explosive ammo, and no CASE in the era..... *SMH*

It's a bad robot, no matter it's fluff role.

[C E Dwyer]

Cyclops came out when there wasn't even a rule for E.C.M, there was no gauss and no pulse lasers.

It had lots of fluff promoting it as a Command mech with a detactable command center and one of the few mech left which could operate a sat link to high orbit, the only other electronic warfare mech was the Ostscout.

It was introduced at a time when there was NO pin point fire, and the Ac20 was king, because it ruined the day of most mechs no matter where you hit one, this was in a time where if you were jumping and firing at a mech that was running to land a hit at all was a roll of luck with ace pilot modifiers.

Why was it voted for. over others.

It looks good with the silly field mod dome head.

Its an old 3025 TRO mech, its one of the sacred ones, a mech that had half good looks and wasn't a rip of a gundam, which still remain the holy of holies.

Not every mech has to be in the game for the benefit of the comp players.


That's why it got voted for in big numbers

[Hit the Deck]

Cathy, on 03 April 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

...
That's why it got voted for in big numbers

Probably also because of MechCommander 2 for the younger generations.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 03 April 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Cyclops came out when there wasn't even a rule for E.C.M, there was no gauss and no pulse lasers.

It had lots of fluff promoting it as a Command mech with a detactable command center and one of the few mech left which could operate a sat link to high orbit, the only other electronic warfare mech was the Ostscout.

It was introduced at a time when there was NO pin point fire, and the Ac20 was king, because it ruined the day of most mechs no matter where you hit one, this was in a time where if you were jumping and firing at a mech that was running to land a hit at all was a roll of luck with ace pilot modifiers.

Why was it voted for. over others.

It looks good with the silly field mod dome head.

Its an old 3025 TRO mech, its one of the sacred ones, a mech that had half good looks and wasn't a rip of a gundam, which still remain the holy of holies.

Not every mech has to be in the game for the benefit of the comp players.


That's why it got voted for in big numbers

Even in 3025, with an AC20, it was a bad mech, that got destroyed fast. Same speed and armor as my Hunchback, a single LRM10 for long range punch on your all important command and communications vehicle, and 6 tons of volatile ammo behind tissue paper armor. You had to be within 6 hexes for that AC20 to have any reasonable accuracy in TT rules, which is a foolish place for your C&C vehicle to find itself.

That's why almost every person I know ended up ripping out the ac20 for 2x PPC, and often downgrading to 3/5 movement if the GM allowed such extensive mods..... and if not, usually invested in a Mobile HQ instead.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 April 2016 - 08:13 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

any way you spin it, the Cyclops is a

[C E Dwyer]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

Even in 3025, with an AC20, it was a bad mech, that got destroyed fast. Same speed and armor as my Hunchback, a single LRM10 for long range punch on your all important command and communications vehicle, and 6 tons of volatile ammo behind tissue paper armor. You had to be within 6 hexes for that AC20 to have any reasonable accuracy in TT rules, which is a foolish place for your C&C vehicle to find itself.

That's why almost every person I know ended up ripping out the ac20 for 2x PPC, and often downgrading to 3/5 movement if the GM allowed such extensive mods..... and if not, usually invested in a Mobile HQ instead.

I was the GM I allowed no mod other than the removal of MG ammo, that stuff was more dangerous to the user than the used, because of the way ammo explosions worked.

Is the Cyclops, if it arrives going to be terrible in MWO I doubt it will be over armour values, because it will get a big armour buff and quirks The Jagermech in TT only had an armour factor of 6 on its arms the MWO one, has a good deal more, even if you take the double values away.

It may well suck in other area's because of hard points and location, because none will be higher than what we have now.

I'd still take a Cyc over a command truck hell to the expense, and screw the drop ship pay load, because of wandering light mechs, no second line is ever as secure as people would like, nor as well protected as a division head quarters, in fluid warfare.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 03 April 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

I was the GM I allowed no mod other than the removal of MG ammo, that stuff was more dangerous to the user than the used, because of the way ammo explosions worked.

Is the Cyclops, if it arrives going to be terrible in MWO I doubt it will be over armour values, because it will get a big armour buff and quirks The Jagermech in TT only had an armour factor of 6 on its arms the MWO one, has a good deal more, even if you take the double values away.

It may well suck in other area's because of hard points and location, because none will be higher than what we have now.

I'd still take a Cyc over a command truck hell to the expense, and screw the drop ship pay load, because of wandering light mechs, no second line is ever as secure as people would like, nor as well protected as a division head quarters, in fluid warfare.

So buy a Mobile HQ, and have the money left over for a Hunchback and a Valkyrie to guard it and a platoon of jump infantry to boot, lol. Without risking the near extinct omicron 2000 battlecomp.

And the Cyclops is a fine example of a mech that SHOULDN'T get structure buffs, because in TT it was fragile, just like the Rifleman (and the Jager which should have none, IMO). But without infowar, because of short sighted players, it will have to have those buffs to have a purpose.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 April 2016 - 08:28 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

El Bandito, on 03 April 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'm hoping that the Gunslinger is going to be more XL friendly than the King Crab. In that case, it can use dual Gauss build while running much faster than the 100 ton mech. My XL Mauler with dual Gauss is having big success in the solo-q, but having Gauss in the torsi means a lot can go wrong, fast. Since Gunslinger has those Gauss in the arms, it won't be an issue.

lets face it IS XL and ST gauss rifles don't go well together unless your fighting dorks, I ain't that good a pilot, and i know where I try to aim on a gauss using Mauler, and from behind if possible.

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

So buy a Mobile HQ, and have the money left over for a Hunchback and a Valkyrie to guard it and a platoon of jump infantry to boot, lol. Without risking the near extinct omicron 2000 battlecomp.

And the Cyclops is a fine example of a mech that SHOULDN'T get structure buffs, because in TT it was fragile, just like the Rifleman (and the Jager which should have none, IMO). But without infowar, because of short sighted players, it will have to have those buffs to have a purpose.

The problem with that is that few if anyone will want to play a fragile Assault mech, which is almost an oxymoron in and of itself! Remember, the Rifleman had an OK release but wasn't great. The Archer, a fire support mech, was considered bad because of it's geometry and poor quirks. The Cyclops would be poorly received if it's a brawler, because of the low mounts, but doesn't have any structure quirks to help it survive in a brawl. It wouldn't be a mini-Atlas then. It'd just be mediocre.

[Damocles]

If they build it we will pilot



in Battletech.

[xVLFBERHxT]

Waited long for this mech, so no question for me !