1049 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Imperius, on 11 April 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Sales are what determin what's junk or not. Too bad we don't get to see sales nunmbers.

Well by that definition, if they did happen to release a Kingfisher with ECM it would likely be far from junk

[1453 R]

Imperius, buddy...people would give your opinions more credence if you didn't:

A.) shout them from the rooftops in every single thread even remotely semi-related to potential new 'Mech speculation, desire, or anything-else you can possibly find, or

B.) weren't quite such a caustic [REDACTED] whenever you did.

I'm not trying to give you grief. We've been there, no need to reprise. Just saying - everyone on Earth knows your opinion by now, dude. Your attitude of "if you disagree with me you're both stupid and an ashhole and you shouldn't be allowed to post on these forums anymore until you cure both conditions - and, coincidentally, start to agree with me" rubs pretty much everyone the wrong way, and it's hurting your cause a lot.

Seriously. I get that Bishop is riding your keister and it pushes your buttons. It'd be great if he could let off, but you're pretty much demanding the forum keep arguing with you on this, and not in the gentleman's discourse meaning of the word 'argue'.

I'm going to invest in the Viper. As you've pointed out, one should put their money where their mouth is. I still don't know if I can quite stomach the twenty-dollar 'collector's' add-on, but in this case, Piranha is making at least one sale where someone is, in fact, putting their money where their mouth is. Here's the difference between you and me - I made one thread to discuss the Viper, way back when, and have since brought it up only when doing so was actually germane to discussion.

At this point I'm fairly sure you've posted reasons why Piranha should add the Mk. II to MWO in the World of Tanks forums. And possibly wherever people go to discuss Hyperdimensional Neptunia. Perhaps even in home improvement boards.

Seriously, man...we get it. It'll get there. You'd have a much easier time garnishing support for the idea if you stopped calling everything that wasn't in MW4 utter useless garbage, and also everyone who wants anything that wasn't in MW4 utter useless garbage.

Edited by Scout Derek, 11 April 2016 - 01:26 PM.
unconstructive word, post is good, but that word wasn't.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 11 April 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

Seriously. I get that Bishop is riding your keister and it pushes your buttons. It'd be great if he could let off, but you're pretty much demanding the forum keep arguing with you on this, and not in the gentleman's discourse meaning of the word 'argue'.

.

Am I?

Well that's one take, I suppose.

Or, I could be focused on the actual the point of the OP, and get tired of the victim crap?

Seriously. I'd prefer to focus on the actual OP, if, ya know, we were allowed.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 11 April 2016 - 12:31 PM.

[1453 R]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 April 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Am I?

Well that's one take, I suppose.

Or, I could be focused on the actual the point of the OP, and get tired of the victim crap?

Seriously. I'd prefer to focus on the actual OP, if, ya know, we were allowed.

Then just stop responding to him. If he has nothing new to say, and he never does...just move on with the conversation, ne?

Anyways. In service to my own words: went and refreshed my memory on the Vapor Eagle. Basically a BattleMech version of the Stormcrow with a rather fanciful appearance? All right, yeah. I don't think we'd get all the cool swoopy lines and Gundamish armoring in the Alex version, but then again look what he did with the Viper.

I could see it doing well, certainly, though half of the Stormcrow's success is its highly unusual geometry and motions letting it spread damage like a god without any real intervention on the part of the pilot. The Vapor Eagle jumps, which is definitely a plus, and as a BattleMech it'd be eligible for hardpoint inflation. Though it shouldn't technically need it, given 4E/4B/2M stock. Nevertheless, I could definitely see it being a powerful choice.

Still...I kinda almost don't want to see it in MWO simply because I've always really liked the almost Orbital Frame-y look of the thing. Alex does amazing work, but MWO has a style to stick to and the Goshawk doesn't fit it. Seems a shame to blockety-block it up and wreck its lines just to force it to fit the MWO Visual Style.

I'm not as conversant with Clan second-line machines as I am with Omnis, so can't talk much about which ones might be good or not. There's certainly potential with this one, though. As for assault ClattleMechs...do we really want to see what ten cUAC/2s looks like? I mean really? People thought hex-5 Whales were obnoxious...

[Pariah Devalis]

1453 R, on 11 April 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

As for assault ClattleMechs...do we really want to see what ten cUAC/2s looks like?

Yes. Yes we do.



Granted, I gleefully smash faces with a twin UAC2 Adder and dream of a 6 UAC2 Night Gyr.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 11 April 2016 - 01:18 PM.

[1453 R]

Bane/Kraken Rush in CW:

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 11 April 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

Anyways. In service to my own words: went and refreshed my memory on the Vapor Eagle. Basically a BattleMech version of the Stormcrow with a rather fanciful appearance? All right, yeah. I don't think we'd get all the cool swoopy lines and Gundamish armoring in the Alex version, but then again look what he did with the Viper.

I could see it doing well, certainly, though half of the Stormcrow's success is its highly unusual geometry and motions letting it spread damage like a god without any real intervention on the part of the pilot. The Vapor Eagle jumps, which is definitely a plus, and as a BattleMech it'd be eligible for hardpoint inflation. Though it shouldn't technically need it, given 4E/4B/2M stock. Nevertheless, I could definitely see it being a powerful choice.

Still...I kinda almost don't want to see it in MWO simply because I've always really liked the almost Orbital Frame-y look of the thing. Alex does amazing work, but MWO has a style to stick to and the Goshawk doesn't fit it. Seems a shame to blockety-block it up and wreck its lines just to force it to fit the MWO Visual Style.

I'm not as conversant with Clan second-line machines as I am with Omnis, so can't talk much about which ones might be good or not. There's certainly potential with this one, though. As for assault ClattleMechs...do we really want to see what ten cUAC/2s looks like? I mean really? People thought hex-5 Whales were obnoxious...

I feel the advantages of the Vape and the Stormcrow have some nice tradeoffs. I would expect that physically it would resemble a clan/advanced version of the Shadowhawk, in a lot of ways. High ballistics hardpoints. Etc.

As for what changes Alex might make, well, neither the Urbie or the KGC are how I envision them, but I deal with it, lol.

I want the Assassin and the Vulcan, and neither will visually be what I am "comfortable" with.

[1453 R]

Looking at the Sarna art for the Veagle makes me...confused. Where are the weapons? cLPL is obviously the right arm cannon, but I don't count enough barrels in either the torso or the left-hand pistol for 4x cMG. Thought the cMPL were in the left hand, with the MGs low-mounted and the missiles in the shoulder pods, but there's only three 'MG' barrels there. Where da heck do they keep the guns on this thing?

Because if I'm right about the cMGs being in the gut and the missiles next to the cockpit, it'd have sort of the opposite of Shadow Hawk hardpoints.

[wanderer]

Vulcans were originally designed to swat infantry and other light targets far more than taking on other 'Mechs, which is why their firepower is so low in MWO terms on the base chassis. On the other hand, the variants tend to be much more strongly oriented in MWO terms to energy boating. Given their traditional thin profile, it'd be a definite competitor with the Cicada and even includes a MASC-capable version in the -5S.

Assassins on the other hand? The ASN-101 would be pretty good, given MWO standards- something like 4-5E + 2M with a high engine cap and decent jump capacity. The poor -23 being the third variant would suffer, though.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 11 April 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

Looking at the Sarna art for the Veagle makes me...confused. Where are the weapons? cLPL is obviously the right arm cannon, but I don't count enough barrels in either the torso or the left-hand pistol for 4x cMG. Thought the cMPL were in the left hand, with the MGs low-mounted and the missiles in the shoulder pods, but there's only three 'MG' barrels there. Where da heck do they keep the guns on this thing?

Because if I'm right about the cMGs being in the gut and the missiles next to the cockpit, it'd have sort of the opposite of Shadow Hawk hardpoints.

3MG in the LA, one in the LT (yeah Btech and symmetry..dont ask)
2MPL in the RT, 1 MPL in the LT


I can only guess the MG is recessed like the ones in the "gun" and under the LT MPL barrel.

(Not my ideal layout, no)

[Bishop Steiner]

wanderer, on 11 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

Vulcans were originally designed to swat infantry and other light targets far more than taking on other 'Mechs, which is why their firepower is so low in MWO terms on the base chassis. On the other hand, the variants tend to be much more strongly oriented in MWO terms to energy boating. Given their traditional thin profile, it'd be a definite competitor with the Cicada and even includes a MASC-capable version in the -5S.

Assassins on the other hand? The ASN-101 would be pretty good, given MWO standards- something like 4-5E + 2M with a high engine cap and decent jump capacity. The poor -23 being the third variant would suffer, though.

K2s traditionally packed 2x anti infantry MG.... how'd that translate to MWO?

Biggest thing with the Vulcan would depend a lot on how hardpoint inflation panned out. The ballistics could be a good or a bad thing. But it's a visually interesting mech that has good speed and a decent potential hardpoint array.

ASN-23 would certainly need some creative inflation. But wouldn't be the first chassis with a bad variant.

End of the day most mechs I only end up running one variant of anyhow, so, *shrugs*

[1453 R]

...that makes negative sense. The world is a dumber place because that's true. What sort of drunken German radish farmer conceived this layout? Why in the world would you just isolate one of your machine guns off in the torso away from the rest of the cluster?

Beh. Tabletop. If it wasn't clear before that none of these people have ever laid eyes on an actual war machine... Oh well. Is what it is, I suppose, even if it basically eliminates one of the ballistic hardpoints from contention.

[Karmen Baric]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 April 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

Well by that definition, if they did happen to release a Kingfisher with ECM it would likely be far from junk

Do want a Kingfisher with ECM

[Kanil]

The idea that the Vulcan shouldn't be in the game because it's an "anti-infantry" 'mech ignores both the existence of variants and the mechlab. It's a terrible argument.

Take a look at the Firestarter, that's a much more "anti-infantry" 'mech, and it works just fine in MWO (and does so with fewer quirks than most clan 'mechs...)

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 11 April 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

...that makes negative sense. The world is a dumber place because that's true. What sort of drunken German radish farmer conceived this layout? Why in the world would you just isolate one of your machine guns off in the torso away from the rest of the cluster?

Beh. Tabletop. If it wasn't clear before that none of these people have ever laid eyes on an actual war machine... Oh well. Is what it is, I suppose, even if it basically eliminates one of the ballistic hardpoints from contention.

Laid eyes on an actual war machine?

Actually take some time to peruse through the archives of any nations actual war machines...and the number of WTFWaffles?!?!?!? will blow your mind.

Heck the USA is currently trying to supplant the A10 for close air support with the F35 a bird that does the job with half the efficacy, but 10x the cost (As one example, though boy is it fun in Gunship Battle, lol). But there are plenty of fighters and tanks that went into production and were pressed into roles that they never made sense for. Bureaucracy tends to do that.

That said, yeah, it still is a totally senseless design placement. Just That it's hardly unique, lol.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 11 April 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[Karmen Baric]

Oh also really cant wait for Night Gyr announcement

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 April 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

3MG in the LA, one in the LT (yeah Btech and symmetry..dont ask)
2MPL in the RT, 1 MPL in the LT


I can only guess the MG is recessed like the ones in the "gun" and under the LT MPL barrel.

(Not my ideal layout, no)

In my opinion, that mech looks stupid.

Karmen Baric, on 11 April 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

Oh also really cant wait for Night Gyr announcement

I like how the arms don't go that low. I hope Alex draws them at a reasonable height.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 April 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

In my opinion, that mech looks stupid.

so does everything in the TRO 3055.

And most of the TROs. Oddly, despite almost all the source art sucking, we have few ugly mechs in the game.

Cuz, ya know, this wins so many "Not looking stupid" contests....

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 11 April 2016 - 02:02 PM.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 April 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

Laid eyes on an actual war machine?

Actually take some time to peruse through the archives of any nations actual war machines...and the number of WTFWaffles?!?!?!? will blow your mind.

Heck the USA is currently trying to supplant the A10 for close air support with the F35 a bird that does the job with half the efficacy, but 10x the cost (As one example, though boy is it fun in Gunship Battle, lol). But there are plenty of fighters and tanks that went into production and were pressed into roles that they never made sense for. Bureaucracy tends to do that.

That said, yeah, it still is a totally senseless design placement. Just That it's hardly unique, lol.

..... As much as I like Lockheed Martian for some of their past secuss machines, the F-35 is going to be a blight on that company for years. There was a report sent out by one of the countries that was involved with the program that more or less stated:

"The F-35 cannot out Fly, out run or out shoot the aircraft that would be used to intercept it."

The sad thing is, it really can't. MiG-29's / SU-37's are faster, have a longer operational range, turn tighter, and carry a larger weapons payload than the F-35. It's no small coincidence that every country but two that have been involved with that program have backed out of it. Hell they can't even make the VTOL system on the thing work right... and 3 of the four versions of the craft do not carry a cannon, that mistake hasn't been done since the late 60's with the early F-4 Phantoms!

Everything aside, the F-35 is a boondoggle, much like a few of the mechs we are going to see over the next little while.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 April 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

In my opinion, that mech looks stupid.



I like how the arms don't go that low. I hope Alex draws them at a reasonable height.

Looks about Awesome height.