1049 replies to this topic

[Valdarion Silarius]

CK16, on 03 April 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

Russ said probably no more packs period. He was saying that they were thinking a 4 pack before but only had options for 2 mediums and 2 heavies really. HE also said Clans are going to be going on a run here for mechs most likely. After the mid April IS mech we will probably get 3 more clans in a row similar to the Unseen if not 4, We just had 5 unseen Inner sphere mechs and 1 clan mech, It is time Clans a run here of several mechs in a row now sorry IS pals you had your turn.

That being said he made it sound like the next ones (that 4 they wanted for that odd pack) would have been Omni mechs so sorry IIC friends, but this way as well we get more options and not needing 4 omni's or 4 IIC's.

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

I'll frankly be shocked if the Vapor Eagle doesn't make it in.
Huntsman is the most logical Medium Omni (with Viper in, I don't feel the Pouncer or Phantom are "needed" anymore)

Heavies? Grizzly maybe for Battlemech, would love the Novacat for Omni, but it's not likely since Russ is pretty set on the 3053ish or earlier primary construction date. The cat starts at 3059, so I just don't see it. Night Gyr is the most likely Heavy Omni.


Packs are dead, decapitated, staked, with garlic shoved in the mouth, chief.

And good riddance.


Hence, being announced, it would no longer be the "next" for speculation, would it?

If mech packs are dead like you two are claiming, then I hope the next clanner is in fact a Rifleman IIC. Here's why:

-No clan Jaegermech 65 ton equivalent.

-Great armor tonnage.

-Four high mounted large pulse lasers (other variants mount ballistics + missiles).

-Beagle active probe and jump jets.

-Radar quirks (that the IS rifleman is supposed to have *HINT HINT* PGI).

-Makes great use of the XL engines (which stacks nicely with more heatsinks).


Please let it not be a Galahad. I don't want a mech that suffers with piss poor armor. No more glass canons please.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 03 April 2016 - 05:07 PM.

[Richard Hazen]

What categories do clanners need more variation in, they have enough Assaults and heavies don't they?

[Gas Guzzler]

Clanners need variety in all classes

[Richard Hazen]

What do they desperately need though?

Currently they have:
Lights - 5
Mediums - 4 (5 if you include Dragonfly)
Heavies - 6
Assaults - 5 (6 If you include Kodiak)

I guess they could go for another medium after the Dragonfly, I think Light might be more likely with the likes of the Firemoth or something.

Edited by Will Hawker, 03 April 2016 - 05:20 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Will Hawker, on 03 April 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

Guess I'll just shut my mouth then.

Not necessary, just saying we could have a more productive conversation/debate as long as we focus on the game/conditions we have, vs what we may want.

[Bluttrunken]

Fire Falcon, Stooping Hawk, Blacklanner in no particular order. Does this thread make sense, though? If Mr. Bullocks said he already picked 4 mechs which he wants to release(one of which is the Viper/Dragonfly) what use is it to repeat all the wishes we made somewhere else already?

Edited by Bluttrunken, 03 April 2016 - 05:30 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Will Hawker, on 03 April 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

What categories do clanners need more variation in, they have enough Assaults and heavies don't they?

I'd say mid weight heard hitting Assaults, and just more variety in Medium and Light roles. Heavies are passable, ATM.

[1453 R]

The Town Hall said that two mediums and two heavies were in the immediate batter's box. Obviously the Viper was one of the mediums (AND FOR VERY GOOD REASON, YOU POUNCER PEOPLE O_O_O), so that leaves one medium and two heavies. The Huntsman makes a decent case for the second heavy; as has been stated, the Viper rather heavily lessens the need for the Phantom and to a lesser degree the need for the Pouncer (40-ton slot filled, less need for another 40-tonner).

On the other hand, the Grendel is a choice as well. I don't think it's a very likely one, though - with the Viper and the Chilly Furry handling medium speedboat duty and the Shadow Cat (and most Novas) being so sadly undergunned, it's probably time to throw the overgunned, under-engined folks a bone. Huntsman makes the most sense there, given that it's in many ways a Nova with cES/cFF. That's probably the other medium, unless Russ and co. enjoy giving the Clans a greater number of fast strike platforms rather than gunbags. I mean, I'd take that, but realistically my needs are met with the Viper so I suppose the Grendel (as awesome as it'd be) or the Phantom are somewhat superfluous.

Heavies are a bit more of a mixed package. Just ran a check through Sarna and I'm honestly not sure where a second heavy Omni outside the Night Gyr would come from, within timeline. Obviously the Night Gyr is the big powerhouse everybody wants within the heavy tier, and realistically I don't see how it could not be on the table given the paucity of remaining in-timeline heavies. It's pretty much the Gyr and the Linebacker, and as much as I appreciate the Linebacker as an interesting notion, even a speed nut like me would be...hesitant...of adding it in over something like the Night Gyr.

Heh...now, I maintain that doing under 70 klicks in the heavy bracket is just not ideal, but the Gyr would have more shooting power than half the Clan assault bracket, so whatever floats people's boats. I do think the Night Gyr would probably be the most logical choice for the next Clan pack, though. There's just not a lot of options right now for those strange, strange people who'd rather have guns than the engine they need to get the guns where they need to be on the Clan side. The Gyr represents a paradigm that just doesn't currently exist in the Clan heavy bracket, so it'd fill a hole that needs filling.

Not that being logical means it's going to happen, of course.

[Archangel.84]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

Good catch. Wasn't a very good book so I haven't reread it since it came out. (About half the twilight of the clans books were snooze fests, IMO, but I'm gonna commit sacrilege and say the Jade Phoenix trilogy is massively overrated, too)

I was exactly the right age to love them. Though even back then the Falcon stuff seemed to belong in a different series. Haven't looked back at them, but I feel like everything with Ariana Winston would still hold up. (Which to be honest is part of the reason I want the Cyclops.)

[Gas Guzzler]

1453 R, on 03 April 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

The Town Hall said that two mediums and two heavies were in the immediate batter's box. Obviously the Viper was one of the mediums (AND FOR VERY GOOD REASON, YOU POUNCER PEOPLE O_O_O), so that leaves one medium and two heavies. The Huntsman makes a decent case for the second heavy; as has been stated, the Viper rather heavily lessens the need for the Phantom and to a lesser degree the need for the Pouncer (40-ton slot filled, less need for another 40-tonner).

On the other hand, the Grendel is a choice as well. I don't think it's a very likely one, though - with the Viper and the Chilly Furry handling medium speedboat duty and the Shadow Cat (and most Novas) being so sadly undergunned, it's probably time to throw the overgunned, under-engined folks a bone. Huntsman makes the most sense there, given that it's in many ways a Nova with cES/cFF. That's probably the other medium, unless Russ and co. enjoy giving the Clans a greater number of fast strike platforms rather than gunbags. I mean, I'd take that, but realistically my needs are met with the Viper so I suppose the Grendel (as awesome as it'd be) or the Phantom are somewhat superfluous.

Heavies are a bit more of a mixed package. Just ran a check through Sarna and I'm honestly not sure where a second heavy Omni outside the Night Gyr would come from, within timeline. Obviously the Night Gyr is the big powerhouse everybody wants within the heavy tier, and realistically I don't see how it could not be on the table given the paucity of remaining in-timeline heavies. It's pretty much the Gyr and the Linebacker, and as much as I appreciate the Linebacker as an interesting notion, even a speed nut like me would be...hesitant...of adding it in over something like the Night Gyr.

Heh...now, I maintain that doing under 70 klicks in the heavy bracket is just not ideal, but the Gyr would have more shooting power than half the Clan assault bracket, so whatever floats people's boats. I do think the Night Gyr would probably be the most logical choice for the next Clan pack, though. There's just not a lot of options right now for those strange, strange people who'd rather have guns than the engine they need to get the guns where they need to be on the Clan side. The Gyr represents a paradigm that just doesn't currently exist in the Clan heavy bracket, so it'd fill a hole that needs filling.

Not that being logical means it's going to happen, of course.

I think they will end up doing the Nova Cat because of how popular it is, and it has in-timeline weapons on its variants, so I think it is very likely going to be the second heavy they release, and probably the last of these next 4 mechs.

[ScarecrowES]

There are a lot of options for mediums that I think would work and that players would feel happy enough about... but the thing is there's no one standout that seems an obvious choice.

Maybe yes, the over-gunned and under-engined could use a bit of representation, but I'm not sure this works well in the medium class. It seems there's a practical lower limit for speed feasibility with mediums in MWO. Too slow doesn't work well, no matter how well-gunned it is. Maybe the Huntsman would work, I'm just not sure.

The Black Lanner is much more popular. I'm not sure PGI picks mechs weighed heavily toward the potential sales, but if they did, the BLanner is a higher-priority mech. Still, with the Viper now in, there's some overlap in Clan mediums with the BLanner. The BLanner gets ECM and more speed though, so who knows. If the Viper is a large light, the BLanner is a REALLY large light. Not necessarily a bad thing if it works, which all indication is it would.

As for the heavies, I don't think there's much doubt we're looking at the Night Gyr and Linebacker. And I think that's a good pairing. They're two very different mechs in every respect, and fill two very different niches which are currently lacking. I don't think there are any heavies availabile in-timeline that compete with either of these two in terms of utility, popularity, uniqueness, etc. I rather look forward to both.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 April 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

I think they will end up doing the Nova Cat because of how popular it is, and it has in-timeline weapons on its variants, so I think it is very likely going to be the second heavy they release, and probably the last of these next 4 mechs.

Russ has been pretty specific (particularly in the previous townhall) about having the "Primary" model being in production 5053 or before. Novacat being 3059, I realyl doubt it. (Also no way does Russ want to open the door to the mkII whining, not even a crack, which the NovaCat absolutely and legitimately, would do)

And that's speaking as a person who loves the Novacat (second fave Clan Heavy after the Summoner) with an insane passion, and wants one real bad.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 April 2016 - 06:42 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

ScarecrowES, on 03 April 2016 - 06:21 PM, said:

The Black Lanner is much more popular.

Is it really? If so where are the reams of posts for it, fan art, etc? Really popular mechs are mentioned, like...all the time.

The only place I ever have seen a remote bit of interest in the Lanner was that one poll.

So maybe it is, and I somehow have missed that in the 21 years since it was released.... if so, I would love some sources for that.

[1453 R]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 April 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

I think they will end up doing the Nova Cat because of how popular it is, and it has in-timeline weapons on its variants, so I think it is very likely going to be the second heavy they release, and probably the last of these next 4 mechs.

The Nova Cat is one of those 'Mechs that could be the flagship of its own quad pack, should Piranha lose their minds and ever do those again. I foresee it being something they use to prime the pump for a tech base shift, especially as one of the Nova Cat configurations runs quad ATM-9. It'd be an excellent chance to really showcase new ATM technology in the future, on top of having a strong nostalgia factor driving sales.

I don't think Russ'd toss all of that away to force the timeline when he has options available now. Night Gyr is clearly in, and the Linebacker seems inevitable. I'd look for the Nova Cat as a "MWO 3065" frontrunner, not a tagalong back here in the Bronze Age.


EDIT::

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

Is it really? If so where are the reams of posts for it, fan art, etc? Really popular mechs are mentioned, like...all the time.

The only place I ever have seen a remote bit of interest in the Lanner was that one poll.

So maybe it is, and I somehow have missed that in the 21 years since it was released.... if so, I would love some sources for that.

The MW4 version of the Black Lanner was a very popular MW4 machine, sort of the Stormcrow of that game. A lot of MW4 folks remember it very fondly, though Duncan Fisher didn't claim it as his favorite so the Uziel tends to get more boardtime. I remember the MW4 Lanner fondly, though I'd rather get the Grendel or perhaps even the Huntsman first. As much as I'm certain the Huntsman will simply be boringly acceptable, a'la things like the Enforcer.

Edited by 1453 R, 03 April 2016 - 06:37 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

Russ has been pretty specific (particularly in the precious townhall) about having the "Primary" model being in production 5053 or before. Novacat being 3059, I realyl doubt it. (Also no way does Russ want to open the door to the mkII whining, not even a crack, which the NovaCat absolutely and legitimately, would do)

And that's speaking as a person who loves the Novacat (second fave Clan Heavy after the Summoner) with an insane passion, and wants one real bad.

I'd love to see the Nova Cat dropped into the game with things set at 3059. Having Nova Cat and Wolf-in-Exile march to war on behalf of the Sphere is probably one of the most iconic events in Battletech. I'd hate to just see this mech plopped unceremoniously into the game set at 3050 without any of the context that makes it important.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 03 April 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

The Nova Cat is one of those 'Mechs that could be the flagship of its own quad pack, should Piranha lose their minds and ever do those again. I foresee it being something they use to prime the pump for a tech base shift, especially as one of the Nova Cat configurations runs quad ATM-9. It'd be an excellent chance to really showcase new ATM technology in the future, on top of having a strong nostalgia factor driving sales.

I don't think Russ'd toss all of that away to force the timeline when he has options available now. Night Gyr is clearly in, and the Linebacker seems inevitable. I'd look for the Nova Cat as a "MWO 3065" frontrunner, not a tagalong back here in the Bronze Age.


EDIT::


The MW4 version of the Black Lanner was a very popular MW4 machine, sort of the Stormcrow of that game. A lot of MW4 folks remember it very fondly, though Duncan Fisher didn't claim it as his favorite so the Uziel tends to get more boardtime. I remember the MW4 Lanner fondly, though I'd rather get the Grendel or perhaps even the Huntsman first. As much as I'm certain the Huntsman will simply be boringly acceptable, a'la things like the Enforcer.

I do think we will see 1-2 more Jumbo Packs.

When the time comes to actually timeline Jump, I would be willing to bet they release 1 each IS and Clan, to buy themselves time (like before the Clan INvasion) and get some ready revenue in advance. And I bet you we would see the Madcat mk II or Nova Cat as the flagship for it. And because you want to have several mechs featuring the full array of new tech, from the get go.

That is the time where it makes sense, resource and business model-wise to do Jumbo Packs.

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

Is it really? If so where are the reams of posts for it, fan art, etc? Really popular mechs are mentioned, like...all the time.

The only place I ever have seen a remote bit of interest in the Lanner was that one poll.

So maybe it is, and I somehow have missed that in the 21 years since it was released.... if so, I would love some sources for that.

The poll, yes, but it also seems to get the most mention (and the most hate) whenever mediums are brought up in topics like these. Personally, I'm kinda "meh" on the mech, but I understand why it's popular. Fast, ecm-capable, boat-able. Plus, if looks could kill, the BLanner could more than make up for a lack of pod space.

I was never aware of the mech before mektek, honestly, and never really used it. But I get it.

[Bishop Steiner]

ScarecrowES, on 03 April 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

Plus, if looks could kill, the BLanner could more than make up for a lack of pod space.

it looks like a living walking turducken.....

[50 50]

I thought there were just enough mechs to make a final Clan Wave 4 Omnimech pack.
It seemed a little sketchy in the heavy and assault range but the Firemoth and Dragonfly were certainly available.
Good to hear that the Dragonfly is on the way.
I would have thought with the recent updates that the Firemoth would now be possible.

Personally I think it's time to break the mould a little and while there are arguments for and against, I would push the case to use (pilot) Elemental Battlearmour in the matches.
Having the ability to 'redeploy' 5 times in a match as one of these could fill the 20 ton light mech slot for the Clan.
Yes I know they aren't technically mechs, but they are very close.
Plus:
* Well within the timeline.
* Unique clan option.
* Would have more of a change on combat than adding another Omni or Battlemech would.
* Is not another superfast light boating lasers. (I mean... we have heaps of those, this would be very different)

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 06:41 PM, said:

I do think we will see 1-2 more Jumbo Packs.

When the time comes to actually timeline Jump, I would be willing to bet they release 1 each IS and Clan, to buy themselves time (like before the Clan INvasion) and get some ready revenue in advance. And I bet you we would see the Madcat mk II or Nova Cat as the flagship for it. And because you want to have several mechs featuring the full array of new tech, from the get go.

That is the time where it makes sense, resource and business model-wise to do Jumbo Packs.

I'm not so sure. I think it makes a lot of marketing sense to release one full pack on each side when the timeline jumps... but I'm not sure the concept of "each side" will even be a thing for mechs at that time. If we move forward, even to 3059, we can't have clean tech divisions anymore. Factions get muddled, and so does tech base. Maybe one big JUMBO pack? Like when Clan Wave 1 came out?

But Russ has gone on record as saying releasing a single mech at a time is much easier for them than releasing in groups... even if we're talking about the same number of mechs in the same period of time. If we're looking at some background work to move the timeline forward, releasing mechs in smaller batches makes more sense for handling that.

So I dunno... marketing vs. ease.