257 replies to this topic

[Damia Savon]

Bud Crue, on 06 April 2016 - 03:33 AM, said:

We need more players.

Forget all that CW lacks. Forget better balance. Forget lost potential. Forget all of the stuff we as a community complain about, that PGI acknowledges as a problem that needs fixing and then provocatively ignores. Forget all of that for a moment, and acknowledge that most of the ills of this game relate or originate to a lack of a large player base. What the game needs more than anything is more players; and that is what this tournament is about. Another attempt, for good or ill, by PGI to attract more players to the game.

So despite my own derision of the tournament role-out, and many of the other things PGI has done of late, I have decided to shelve my fairly new, yet intense hostility for PGI and its decision making (thanks last two town halls!) and re-evaluate my views regarding MWO.

Regardless of how I feel about the utterly unprofessional way PGI has conducted themselves as of late. Regardless of how I feel about the state of the game. Regardless of how absurd I think this "highest skill tournament in esports" is...
I enjoy the game and I want to keep playing it. If you do too, then it is in your best interest that this "highest skill tournament in esports" is a smashing success. It really is that simple. We need more players, particularly we need more players who actually have an interest in playing the game long term (no comment on steam); and a successful tournament that garners lots of positive attention could help draw them in.

So regardless of our own personal axes to grind with PGI, it is in all of our interests to try and be constructive and even helpful to their effort here (hard swallow): for the good of the game and its hoped for future.

See I totally disagree. I hope the tourney is a total failure. I want it to sick so bad that the ghosts of devs past visit Russ in the night and ***** slap him into next year for the entire concept. MWO would be better off if the time and money being wasted on the game went into improving the game. No matter what sensible people have told Russ, he has this esport bug up his *** and refuses to let it go until it is ashes around him.

The success of this game is the lore, not esports.

[Revis Volek]

Damia Savon, on 06 April 2016 - 06:36 AM, said:

See I totally disagree. I hope the tourney is a total failure. I want it to sick so bad that the ghosts of devs past visit Russ in the night and ***** slap him into next year for the entire concept. MWO would be better off if the time and money being wasted on the game went into improving the game. No matter what sensible people have told Russ, he has this esport bug up his *** and refuses to let it go until it is ashes around him.

The success of this game is the lore, not esports.

How can the success be lore when there is no lore here at all, and they are writing their own at least when it comes to mechs.


I think you have this game mixed up with another one that gonna release in the future...

http://www.catalystg...com/battletech/

Edited by Revis Volek, 06 April 2016 - 06:39 AM.

[Mystere]

Crockdaddy, on 06 April 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

To be fair, the bulk of thinking should have occurred before the match. The rest is experience, repetition, practice, and wisdom gained from past matches, past planning, past thinking. You will need to "think" in a match but that thinking should be based on experience and pre-planning (game theory and practice) so you can react very quickly. If you have to "think" in a traditional sense (meaning put some deep thought) at match time it's likely going to get rough unless the other guy makes a mistake. Over thinking is a problem at times during matches and we've definitely lost our fair share over thinking too.

I disagree that the bulk of thinking should have occurred before the match. I prefer matches involving more "thinking while under pressure". That is what makes them exciting, especially when considering your last sentence.

[Davegt27]

Quote

Phase 2 - May

• May 1st at 9:59 AM PDT / 4:59 PM UTC - Team Formation Deadline, all Teams must be finalized before this deadline!
  
• May 1st at 10:00 AM PDT / 5:00 PM UTC - Team Name and Player Review phase begins.
  
• Dates to be Announced:
  - Team Name and Player Review phase ends;
  - Release of Participating Teams;
  - Release of Regional Qualifier Match Schedules;
  - Mech-Con 2016 tickets go on sale;
  - Tournament Build is released;

I wonder what "Tournament Build" means

[FupDup]

While I can understand that calling MWO "the highest skill tourny in esports" might be going a little bit too far, saying that MWO doesn't take skill to play is a blatant lie.

If this game was so easy, why has the New Player Experience been one of the largest weaknesses that this game has had from a commerical standpoint? Why do we have such a hard time keeping new players from leaving?

Why do people still fail to break 200 damage in a match?

Why do I often see people who can't even aim at stationary targets with lock-on weapons?

Why do people split up and look for clues?

Why do people ignore UAVs?

Why do people use bad loadouts like LBX?

I could go on and on like this. The point is, the gap between players who are good and players who aren't good is extremely wide in MWO. To say anything otherwise is outright wrong.

[Bud Crue]

Damia Savon, on 06 April 2016 - 06:36 AM, said:

See I totally disagree. I hope the tourney is a total failure. I want it to sick so bad that the ghosts of devs past visit Russ in the night and ***** slap him into next year for the entire concept. MWO would be better off if the time and money being wasted on the game went into improving the game. No matter what sensible people have told Russ, he has this esport bug up his *** and refuses to let it go until it is ashes around him.

The success of this game is the lore, not esports.

I think I see where you are coming from, but while a little schadenfreude would be satisfying by the tournament being "a total failure" and may get Russ et al to finally try making "a BattleTech Game" or at least a better MW game; I fear however (given how much PGI has put into steam, and now this tournament) that if we don't get some new players...that actually stick around and have a real interest in playing the game...that the game itself will soon cease. I don't want that to happen regardless of how I feel toward PGI or Russ's business practices. I still enjoy the game and want to keep playing it, so for my part:

Yay, tournament! Go comp folks, go. Go PGI, go. Show the internets how great the game is and bring in those new players so I don't have 10 minute wait times. Rah, rah, rah. Yay.

Edited by Bud Crue, 06 April 2016 - 06:52 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Davegt27, on 06 April 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

[/list]I wonder what "Tournament Build" means

Stock UM-R60L.

[Khobai]

a successful esport needs to be entertaining though. watching a bunch of players laser spam while playing skirmish is simply not entertaining.

what makes an esport entertaining is when skilled players can SHOWCASE their skill. A degree of showmanship is required. And MWO lacks that.

also what makes esports entertaining is the potential for comebacks/upsets. When one player/team is close to losing and then completely turns the game around against all expectations. Again skirmish gamemode lacks that; the losing team basically always loses in MWO.

thats not to say mwo cant be successful as an esport but FFS PGI needs to add a gamemode that isnt just skirmish. We need a gamemode thats dynamic and exciting to watch and has built-in potential for the losing team to completely flip the table and pull a win out of nowhere.

Edited by Khobai, 06 April 2016 - 06:59 AM.

[Crockdaddy]

Mystere, on 06 April 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

I disagree that the bulk of thinking should have occurred before the match. I prefer matches involving more "thinking while under pressure". That is what makes them exciting, especially when considering your last sentence.

Any sport pretty much ever the thinking which is termed as preparation happens before the event. Execution is different ... it requires a different kind of thinking. I meant merely your deep preparation thinking should already have occurred. You certainly aren't going to do deep thinking in a match. Generally there wouldn't be time. All choices need to happen quickly with clean execution. When I hear thinking, I "think" in terms of preparation so I can execute cleanly when the moment comes.

[Revis Volek]

Crockdaddy, on 06 April 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

Any sport pretty much ever the thinking which is termed as preparation happens before the event. Execution is different ... it requires a different kind of thinking. I meant merely your deep preparation thinking should already have occurred. You certainly aren't going to do deep thinking in a match. Generally there wouldn't be time. All choices need to happen quickly with clean execution. When I hear thinking, I "think" in terms of preparation so I can execute cleanly when the moment comes.

and then its free Popsicle time!

Edited by Revis Volek, 06 April 2016 - 07:00 AM.

[Mystere]

Bud Crue, on 06 April 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

I think I see where you are coming from, but while a little schadenfreude would be satisfying by the tournament being "a total failure" and may get Russ et al to finally try making "a BattleTech Game" or at least a better MW game; I fear however (given how much PGI has put into steam, and now this tournament) that if we don't get some new players...that actually stick around and have a real interest in playing the game...that the game itself will soon cease. I don't want that to happen regardless of how I feel toward PGI or Russ's business practices. I still enjoy the game and want to keep playing it, so for my part:

Yay, tournament! Go comp folks, go. Go PGI, go. Show the internets how great the game is and bring in those new players so I don't have 10 minute wait times. Rah, rah, rah. Yay.

I much prefer a game in which people stick around to play for a long time rather than one that gets big but temporary influxes of very short-term players. A great game does the former, a mediocre game with good advertising does the latter.

Edited by Mystere, 06 April 2016 - 07:12 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

All of you guys talking about Laser spam are clueless.

This isn't the public queue.

[QuantumButler]

Oh boy "esports", aka the thing that completely ruins every single game it touches.

No thanks.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 06 April 2016 - 06:53 AM, said:

also what makes esports entertaining is the potential for comebacks/upsets. When one player/team is close to losing and then completely turns the game around against all expectations. Again skirmish gamemode lacks that; the losing team basically always loses in MWO.

This is why most comp matches use conquest, MRBC EU Division A has actually seen a couple of upsets through cap wins this season.

[Gorgo7]

Damia Savon, on 06 April 2016 - 06:36 AM, said:

See I totally disagree. I hope the tourney is a total failure. I want it to sick so bad that the ghosts of devs past visit Russ in the night and ***** slap him into next year for the entire concept. MWO would be better off if the time and money being wasted on the game went into improving the game. No matter what sensible people have told Russ, he has this esport bug up his *** and refuses to let it go until it is ashes around him.

The success of this game is the lore, not esports.

Railing against MWO won't make you a better player 'bro...

[QuantumButler]

Gorgo7, on 06 April 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Railing against MWO won't make you a better player 'bro...

Nor will participating in this farce of a tournament.

[Pjwned]

Bud Crue, on 06 April 2016 - 05:31 AM, said:

If the tourney is about showing off the game as a whole as well as demonstrating the skill, the real skill that it takes to be good at the game as a whole -as opposed to merely showing a player's/team's ability to laser spam or build a super duper high alpha mechs- then it seems to me that the easiest way to do that is to have the matches be random.

Randomly selected stock build mechs for each player, on each team, and randomly selected maps for every match. Give players a minute or two to configure their weapons groups and the match begins.

Would be exciting and interesting to watch, and require the players and their teams to really know what the mechs are about and how to make use of them.

I like the intent somewhat, but...

1) Stock mechs are not balanced, so if you get a piece of crap on an unlucky roll (JM6-S and LCT-1M come to mind) then that's just lame.

2) It rather drastically changes the game just for a tournament and in the process gives the wrong impression of how the game actually works; if it's an actually good game for a competition it shouldn't need changes like that.

[Davers]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 April 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

But would also be a complete lottery, unless each team got the same selection of mechs..

I still dont understand why mech building/selection is not considered one of the 'skills' that count. Wasn't choosing the right mechs for your dec. important in TT? Im pretty sure it was.

There is a lot of options for random forces in TT- rolling for lance composition (how many of each weight class and such) and mechs by faction. While not everyone uses it, it is emphasized heavily in their campaign supplements.

Khobai, on 06 April 2016 - 06:53 AM, said:

a successful esport needs to be entertaining though. watching a bunch of players laser spam while playing skirmish is simply not entertaining.

what makes an esport entertaining is when skilled players can SHOWCASE their skill. A degree of showmanship is required. And MWO lacks that.

also what makes esports entertaining is the potential for comebacks/upsets. When one player/team is close to losing and then completely turns the game around against all expectations. Again skirmish gamemode lacks that; the losing team basically always loses in MWO.

thats not to say mwo cant be successful as an esport but FFS PGI needs to add a gamemode that isnt just skirmish. We need a gamemode thats dynamic and exciting to watch and has built-in potential for the losing team to completely flip the table and pull a win out of nowhere.

It's why I enjoy LoL so much.

1. Player skill- who didn't love it when Fenix turned around a 4v1 and walked away?
2. Everyone has a role to play, and all are needed to win.
3. Off meta picks- When Keane beat Bjergson's Zed with Urgot. When Faker went mid lane Yi...I love to watch games where people break out something different and own the game.
4. All the champions are unique and identifiable. Even if you don't know the players you can still root for your favorite champs.
5. Always the chance for a comeback. The game may look hopeless, but there is always a chance to turn things around, even right up to the very end.

[Gorgo7]

QuantumButler, on 06 April 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

Nor will participating in this farce of a tournament.

Yeah, but it might make me $5000.00 richer!

[PFC Carsten]

Tristan Winter, on 06 April 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

You press R now and then, [...]

23 out of 24 people would disagree.