1016 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

TheArisen, on 22 January 2017 - 07:30 PM, said:

Two questions for everyone.

1. On a scale of one to Atlas, how iconic would you rate the Nightstar?

2. Where does the Nightstar fall on your personal list of desired mechs?

1) 2
Iconic? Let's face it, it's not, at all. It got one semi starring role with Tancred Sandoval, in one novel? It's less iconic than the Uziel, which got a "starring" role in MW4. And I don't consider the uziel particularly iconic. But then, that term get thrown around awfully lightly, too.

"relating to or characteristic of a famous person or thing that represents something of importance:"

The Atlas is Iconic for Battletech. As is the Timberwolf. One could argue that due to all the controversy, the Robotech Connection, etc, the Unseen are iconic. Realistically, few, other Battletech robots really qualify, even within the fanbase. The Urbanmech, perhaps (for all the WRONG reasons)

2) Middle of the pack. It's a nice robot, I like it, but I don't love it. I can think of 20 mechs or more I would prefer, personally, but I won't be unhappy if it gets added.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 January 2017 - 08:48 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

TheArisen, on 22 January 2017 - 07:30 PM, said:

Two questions for everyone.

1. On a scale of one to Atlas, how iconic would you rate the Nightstar?

2. Where does the Nightstar fall on your personal list of desired mechs?

1. while Bishop already represented a very good explanation - I might add that the issue is that most BT novels use the classic 3025 and 3050 mechs. Mechs beyond that a very uncommon.
Look at the very late "Operation Excalibur" there is only the mention of a Apollo and the Defiance as new Mechs. All the other stuff is much older.
Other authors did use "modern" tech earlier but I think those novels are even worse.
For MWO the main "icons" can be extracted from MW games. (Bushwacker, Annihilator, Sunder, MadCatII.... still is beyond my pay grade to understand how Davion /Steiners are able to buy and to maintain MadCat IIs)

2.
There are some nice "art works" in this topic, and the work done by your "lobbying" is much better when compared to the MadCat II lobby.
So it got some "special" points

But when it comes to mechs in general the NightStar is hardly able to get into the Top 20.
When it comes to new mechs - i see its value as a addition for MWO with a maybe solid IS Assault Mech, although the 3060+ statement could proof to be the death sentence.

[TheArisen]

Very interesting answers guys and I do agree the Nightstar isn't iconic or famous, etc. I'd imagine my lobbying has raised it to it's highest point. (And I hope I haven't been annoying if I ever got overeager). Personally I'd give it a 3 maybe a 4 as I've seen other ppl post about the Nightstar and this thread has been fairly successful. (I don't mean that to brag, just recognizing the truth.) For example I'd give the Uziel a 6 because it was one of the main mechs in the MW4 intro and as you fight through the medium weight class in Solaris Fisher says he likes them and would pilot one if he got back in.

For myself I got interested in the Nightstar back when I read about Tancred losing his because I wanted to know what he lost. I'd really have loved to read how he lost his for obvious reasons and I wish Stackpole had written it.

You make some good points Karl. Even the books play favoritism so becoming iconic or famous is very difficult unless the mech is supposed to become so.

I would say it'd be a strong mech if added unless it's hotboxes got messed up because Alex would have to modify a bit to take away the high mounts and it's hard points are good too. But I I'm worried as well that the Nightstar may get overlooked because now all the 3060 icons are available. I'm not giving up because I feel like I've put too much effort in to quit now and I think it's still very possible to get a 2017 announcement even if I don't think the Nightstar will make the March pack. Maybe in May, my bday is in August and I'd say that'd be an epic class thing to get.

[FLG 01]

"Iconic" is a heavily over-used and often ab-used term here and I would like to avoid it altogether unless we are talking about true icons like the Marauder.

As far the presence of the Nightstar in the lore is concerned, it is neither remarkably striking nor is it obscure. Sandoval used it during the FCCW and two centrepiece novels of BT series featured combat scenes with it (Patriots and Tyrans, Endgame), with some minor mentions of Nightstars in other novels. It also has some claim to fame as the ride of Wolf Dragoon’s Shelly Brubaker. As a curious sidenote: some German BT novels feature the Nightstar too.

Thus it is no Atlas, but it is nowhere near Uziel-levels of irrelevance.

Now that 3060ies Mechs are possible, the Nightstar has lost some places on my Top20 list. When it comes to assaults, it is still number 4 though, behind Fafnir, Hauptmann, and Spartan. I would still buy it nonetheless.

As KS has noted, the 3060ies could well be a death sentence for some of the less well known Mechs, especially from the Star League era.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 23 January 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

"Iconic" is a heavily over-used and often ab-used term here and I would like to avoid it altogether unless we are talking about true icons like the Marauder.

As far the presence of the Nightstar in the lore is concerned, it is neither remarkably striking nor is it obscure. Sandoval used it during the FCCW and two centrepiece novels of BT series featured combat scenes with it (Patriots and Tyrans, Endgame), with some minor mentions of Nightstars in other novels. It also has some claim to fame as the ride of Wolf Dragoon’s Shelly Brubaker. As a curious sidenote: some German BT novels feature the Nightstar too.

Thus it is no Atlas, but it is nowhere near Uziel-levels of irrelevance.

Now that 3060ies Mechs are possible, the Nightstar has lost some places on my Top20 list. When it comes to assaults, it is still number 4 though, behind Fafnir, Hauptmann, and Spartan. I would still buy it nonetheless.

As KS has noted, the 3060ies could well be a death sentence for some of the less well known Mechs, especially from the Star League era.

Yeah iconic gets thrown around too much, famous or noteworthy is more appropriate.

I do think it's funny how much disdain you guys have for the Uziel but then again MW4 was my favorite (especially mercs). I never cared for it but oh well.

I tweeted Russ about Star league era mechs. Hopefully he responds.

[Metus regem]

TheArisen, on 23 January 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Yeah iconic gets thrown around too much, famous or noteworthy is more appropriate.

I do think it's funny how much disdain you guys have for the Uziel but then again MW4 was my favorite (especially mercs). I never cared for it but oh well.

I tweeted Russ about Star league era mechs. Hopefully he responds.

On it's capabilities the Uziel is decent, if unremarkable in terms of TT, it's just average. For example the TT stats for it (UZL-2S):

Spoiler

Uziel UZL-2S

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3063
Cost: 10,005,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,352

Chassis: Foundation E50 Endo-Steel
Power Plant: GM 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Rawlings 50
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Maximillian 100 Standard Armor
Armament:
2 PPCs
1 Harvester 20K SRM-6
2 Machine Guns
1 Beagle Active Probe
Manufacturer: Defiance Industries
Primary Factory: Furillo
Communications System: Neil 6000-g
Targeting and Tracking System: RCA Instatrac Mark XXII

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 83 points 2.50
Internal Locations: 1 LT, 5 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 9.50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT 3.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 128 8.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 16 17
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 12 14
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 8 12
L/R Leg 12 18

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SRM-6 CT 4 2 3.00
Machine Gun RT 0 1 0.50
Machine Gun LT 0 1 0.50
Beagle Active Probe LT 0 2 1.50
PPC RA 10 3 7.00
PPC LA 10 3 7.00
@SRM-6 (15) LT - 1 1.00
@MG (1/2) (100) LT - 1 0.50
Free Critical Slots: 9

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 14
6j 3 3 2 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: PRB, RCN, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

It's got an decent ground speed of 6/9 with a jump of 6, but only 8t of standard armour, that's just over 75% coverage....

Ton for ton, BV for BV, I'd rather take a Bushwacker into battle, if only for the advantages of the TT qurik system letting her be harder to hit from the front and back at range, but if I am going to be honest, with a time line jump I'd rather take a Gauntlet.

http://www.sarna.net...tlet_(OmniMech)

Everything the Bushwacker should be.

[FLG 01]

TheArisen, on 23 January 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

I do think it's funny how much disdain you guys have for the Uziel but then again MW4 was my favorite (especially mercs). I never cared for it but oh well.

Well, same here. I do not care much for it because it has very little lore (and rather unflattering lore too). It has some qualities I like (engine cap, cool looks), even if I have my doubts regarding the low mounted cockpit and the huge STs. In the end I would not complain about getting this Mech but I would not apply for it either - which, ironically, sums up the LAAF's attitude towards this Mech in the lore.

It is an ok Mech coming from MW:4; I am just not buying the "iconic"-part considering it is a FCCW Mech and there is literally no FCCW story featuring it other than MW:4V (correct me if I am wrong) - and I have been an avid MW:4-player. You know, it says MWO: A BattleTech Game, not MWO: MW:4-reloaded.
After all, MW:4 had the guts to introduce Mechs which had not been featured in previous games and that was good. MWO should do the same.

TheArisen, on 23 January 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

I tweeted Russ about Star league era mechs. Hopefully he responds.

Tell us if he responds for there are a number of wonderful SL-era Mechs.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 23 January 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Well, same here. I do not care much for it because it has very little lore (and rather unflattering lore too). It has some qualities I like (engine cap, cool looks), even if I have my doubts regarding the low mounted cockpit and the huge STs. In the end I would not complain about getting this Mech but I would not apply for it either - which, ironically, sums up the LAAF's attitude towards this Mech in the lore.

It is an ok Mech coming from MW:4; I am just not buying the "iconic"-part considering it is a FCCW Mech and there is literally no FCCW story featuring it other than MW:4V (correct me if I am wrong) - and I have been an avid MW:4-player. You know, it says MWO: A BattleTech Game, not MWO: MW:4-reloaded.
After all, MW:4 had the guts to introduce Mechs which had not been featured in previous games and that was good. MWO should do the same.




Tell us if he responds for there are a number of wonderful SL-era Mechs.

Yeah the Uziel would be pretty mediocre in MWO because of it's cockpit. As Gas pointed out, if you swapped the missiles and cockpit it'd be a much better mech.

I certainly agree with the never been in a game before point for obvious reasons.

I will of course. If anyone has a Twitter I'm sure it'd help if you liked/retweeted/commented on the tweet.


Totally random thought about Tancred's Nightstar. What if it was recovered after the battle for new Avalon and was rebuilt with some upgrades and given to someone else importantish?

[FLG 01]

TheArisen, on 23 January 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

Totally random thought about Tancred's Nightstar. What if it was recovered after the battle for new Avalon and was rebuilt with some upgrades and given to someone else importantish?

I am not sure if that makes sense. The Nightstar lost its gyroscope and one leg, perhaps the engine was damaged too when the CT was breached. The weaponry would be largely if not completely intact.
The Nightstar might have been repaired when WoB hit New Avalon because they needed every Mech they got, but I doubt they would have gone through the length of modifying it much in this situation.

I would think of other options to get a Hero Mech. Unfortunately Sandoval is a bit of a problem, because he is very likely to get his Hero Mech when the Templar comes (and I am quite sure we will see the Templar sooner or later).

I don't want to be negative or anything, because there are many ways to get a Nightstar Hero. If PGI does not want a non-Canon Hero, they could go for Atomic Annie or Rattlejack Jake - both are former AFFC officers on the run, and are imo quite likely to have modified their Mechs after being cut off from the AFFC logistics network. (Curious, isn't it? Both notable pilots in the TRO are renegades).

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 23 January 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

I am not sure if that makes sense. The Nightstar lost its gyroscope and one leg, perhaps the engine was damaged too when the CT was breached. The weaponry would be largely if not completely intact.
The Nightstar might have been repaired when WoB hit New Avalon because they needed every Mech they got, but I doubt they would have gone through the length of modifying it much in this situation.

I would think of other options to get a Hero Mech. Unfortunately Sandoval is a bit of a problem, because he is very likely to get his Hero Mech when the Templar comes (and I am quite sure we will see the Templar sooner or later).

I don't want to be negative or anything, because there are many ways to get a Nightstar Hero. If PGI does not want a non-Canon Hero, they could go for Atomic Annie or Rattlejack Jake - both are former AFFC officers on the run, and are imo quite likely to have modified their Mechs after being cut off from the AFFC logistics network. (Curious, isn't it? Both notable pilots in the TRO are renegades).

Well I wasn't exactly looking for a hero mech *****, more just a reason to create a new variant in general but as you pointed out the weapons weren't destroyed so it'd just get repaired at best.

Like I've said before, my preferred choices for the hero are Brubaker or Xaver. But I would be interested in learning more about Annie and Jake

And Russ didn't respond.
I saw he retweeted a couple things about an hour after I sent mine.

[FLG 01]

Let's wait and see how the new Mech packs look like. I hope there won't be the need for PGI/fan-invented variants.

And Hero Mechs are important, even if they are not part of the Mech pack. I think they add a little spice and lore to the game. The two notable pilots from TRO:3058U would be possible choices:

Leftenant General Annette Leyland (often called Atomic Annie by fan; you will see why): she was CO of the 5th FedCom RCT during the FCCW, in which she used nuclear weapons against their enemies on two worlds. In 3065 she and her command vanished, and she is a wanted war criminal. However in 3072 they show up again to help against the Blakists. We actually do not know exactly what happened to her, although there was a court martial and the 5th was stricken from the rolls (but that may be unrelated to the war crimes as the whole FedCom brigade was dissolved anyway - for obvious reasons). The interesting part is their absence for many years in which a lot could have happened, including some repair and refit of the Nightstar.
( Historical note: Atomic Annie was also the name of a Cold War artillery gun which could use nuclear munitions:
https://en.wikipedia...5_atomic_cannon ).

John "Rattlesnake Jack" Culpepper is a Knight Errant in the Periphery, who probably has an AFFC history as he wears an AFFC-general's uniform. He is far more likeable than Leyland in that is a bit of an A-Team character, i.e. a merc with high moral standards who also helps those in need of protection against bullies.

I surely prefer Culpepper, if only to have some more Periphery in the game.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 23 January 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Let's wait and see how the new Mech packs look like. I hope there won't be the need for PGI/fan-invented variants.

And Hero Mechs are important, even if they are not part of the Mech pack. I think they add a little spice and lore to the game. The two notable pilots from TRO:3058U would be possible choices:

Leftenant General Annette Leyland (often called Atomic Annie by fan; you will see why): she was CO of the 5th FedCom RCT during the FCCW, in which she used nuclear weapons against their enemies on two worlds. In 3065 she and her command vanished, and she is a wanted war criminal. However in 3072 they show up again to help against the Blakists. We actually do not know exactly what happened to her, although there was a court martial and the 5th was stricken from the rolls (but that may be unrelated to the war crimes as the whole FedCom brigade was dissolved anyway - for obvious reasons). The interesting part is their absence for many years in which a lot could have happened, including some repair and refit of the Nightstar.
( Historical note: Atomic Annie was also the name of a Cold War artillery gun which could use nuclear munitions:
https://en.wikipedia...5_atomic_cannon ).

John "Rattlesnake Jack" Culpepper is a Knight Errant in the Periphery, who probably has an AFFC history as he wears an AFFC-general's uniform. He is far more likeable than Leyland in that is a bit of an A-Team character, i.e. a merc with high moral standards who also helps those in need of protection against bullies.

I surely prefer Culpepper, if only to have some more Periphery in the game.

Yeah we're one day away from the Bushwhacker dropping in so he probably doesn't want to distract from that.

Nice! I agree I like Culpepper better especially if he's a bit quirky like the A-Team guys. Although Annie's could have something that corresponds to her namesake like a heavy gauss instead of the erppc in the RT.

[TheArisen]

Alright my heavy gauss Nightstar.
STD 285
Std armor & structure
Max armor
H: Mlaser
LA: Erppc 1 dhs
LT: 4 dhs
CT: 2t hgauss ammo
RT: Hgauss 1t hgauss ammo
RA: Erppc 1 dhs
LL: -
RL: 1.5t Hgauss ammo

Not too shabby eh?

Edited by TheArisen, 25 January 2017 - 12:31 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

FLG 01, on 23 January 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Let's wait and see how the new Mech packs look like. I hope there won't be the need for PGI/fan-invented variants.

And Hero Mechs are important, even if they are not part of the Mech pack. I think they add a little spice and lore to the game. The two notable pilots from TRO:3058U would be possible choices:

Leftenant General Annette Leyland (often called Atomic Annie by fan; you will see why): she was CO of the 5th FedCom RCT during the FCCW, in which she used nuclear weapons against their enemies on two worlds. In 3065 she and her command vanished, and she is a wanted war criminal. However in 3072 they show up again to help against the Blakists. We actually do not know exactly what happened to her, although there was a court martial and the 5th was stricken from the rolls (but that may be unrelated to the war crimes as the whole FedCom brigade was dissolved anyway - for obvious reasons). The interesting part is their absence for many years in which a lot could have happened, including some repair and refit of the Nightstar.
( Historical note: Atomic Annie was also the name of a Cold War artillery gun which could use nuclear munitions:
https://en.wikipedia...5_atomic_cannon ).

Did she run a NIghtstar?
Really need to read the novel again - Jackson Davion stopped her before she could deploy the last Alamo device. Although Jackson Davion became a martyr only minutes later the confession of Leyland was broadcasted by Davion with some consequences.
Really wished the story would continue - including a prequel - because Geoffrey Zucker seems to be a really interesting person.

The irony about Leyland and Jackson is without her help and the usage of Alamos New Avalon would have been lost

TheArisen, on 23 January 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

Alright my heavy gauss Nightstar.
STD 285
Std armor & structure
H: Mlaser
LA: Erppc 1 dhs
LT: 4 dhs
CT: 2t hgauss ammo
RT: Hgauss 1t hgauss ammo
RA: Erppc 1 dhs
LL: -
RL: 1.5t Hgauss ammo

Not too shabby eh?

considering 3060 - you can go full Vanilla: 285 light, LFE, 2x HPPC, HGauss with 6t ammo, 16DHS
Although i would rather drop the HPPC in the RA arm and go dual LPPC for the LA. Remaining 4tons could be added to the engine

Edited by Karl Streiger, 24 January 2017 - 12:15 AM.

[FLG 01]

TheArisen, on 23 January 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

Nice! I agree I like Culpepper better especially if he's a bit quirky like the A-Team guys.

I must admit I like the idea of such a character. He seems to be totally quirky but with a heart of gold. And in the Periphery strange things can happen. I build a Periphery refit Nightstar which is a bit crazy, but might be nice to experiment with in MWO's MechLab:



Now that Russ has confirmed heavy machine guns (more or less) this even makes some sense. Also, although I am strictly opposed to missile-based Nightstars, those rocket launchers are another story because they don't need ammo (and thus no system to feed them, i.e. they are easily installed). And with rocket launchers you get the missile hardpoints.
So thank the 3060ies Tech, there it is: the missile Nightstar. It is still no true missile boat though, but I really do not want that anyway - assault missile boats need to be super well played to be useful in a match and most assault missile boats I see are pretty bad. So I would like ti avoid that.

Karl Streiger, on 24 January 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

Did she run a NIghtstar?

Yep, it is in TRO:3058U.

I must admit I am not that firm in Jihad era lore due to the disparate publication strategy. The various short stories often elude me, even if I have most of them on my PC. I think I never really fully read Isle of the Blessed, because I prefer the old dead tree format...

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 24 January 2017 - 09:12 PM, said:

I must admit I like the idea of such a character. He seems to be totally quirky but with a heart of gold. And in the Periphery strange things can happen. I build a Periphery refit Nightstar which is a bit crazy, but might be nice to experiment with in MWO's MechLab:



Now that Russ has confirmed heavy machine guns (more or less) this even makes some sense. Also, although I am strictly opposed to missile-based Nightstars, those rocket launchers are another story because they don't need ammo (and thus no system to feed them, i.e. they are easily installed). And with rocket launchers you get the missile hardpoints.
So thank the 3060ies Tech, there it is: the missile Nightstar. It is still no true missile boat though, but I really do not want that anyway - assault missile boats need to be super well played to be useful in a match and most assault missile boats I see are pretty bad. So I would like ti avoid that.






Yep, it is in TRO:3058U.

I must admit I am not that firm in Jihad era lore due to the disparate publication strategy. The various short stories often elude me, even if I have most of them on my PC. I think I never really fully read Isle of the Blessed, because I prefer the old dead tree format...

That's epic. You could put together some crazy builds with those HP's.

Karl Streiger, on 24 January 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

considering 3060 - you can go full Vanilla: 285 light, LFE, 2x HPPC, HGauss with 6t ammo, 16DHS
Although i would rather drop the HPPC in the RA arm and go dual LPPC for the LA. Remaining 4tons could be added to the engine

I thought the Hgauss took up too many slot for a lfe?

[TheArisen]

The fact that a second Nightstar thread popped up really makes me happy as well as the fact the OP has over 70 "likes"
https://mwomercs.com...ing-considered/

[TheArisen]

Bombast got me thinking, what mechs do you think of/see similarities with the Nightstar?

Bishop and a few others said EBJ and i think the Marauder parentage is clear but what do you guys think?

[Metus regem]

TheArisen, on 25 January 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Bombast got me thinking, what mechs do you think of/see similarities with the Nightstar?

Bishop and a few others said EBJ and i think the Marauder parentage is clear but what do you guys think?

Mechs that I find that could be related to the Nightstar in terms of design?

I could see relation to the Bushwacker, Gauntlet, Marauder and Marauder II for the IS side of things.

[TheArisen]

Metus regem, on 25 January 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Mechs that I find that could be related to the Nightstar in terms of design?

I could see relation to the Bushwacker, Gauntlet, Marauder and Marauder II for the IS side of things.

Yeah Bomb was saying he thought it looked like the Crab but I don't see it, maybe in a general sense because they're both chicken walkers with torpedo ish body.