1016 replies to this topic

[FLG 01]

TheArisen, on 13 October 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

Well I spent a considerable amount of time and effort druming up support for this mech and to have it be bad is just sad. We're not talking about ideal, we just want it to be good and not left to gather dust and be forgotten.

Much depends on the quirks. The arms are a serious downer but not yet a deal breaker. (Also I would need a better look at the geometry). What baffles me is that it is just so unnecessary!

[Y E O N N E]

Rakshasa, on 13 October 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

Either that or they're drinking heavily after seeing people getting genuinely worked up because internet lasers are a few degrees lower than required for optimal competitive efficiency. I know I'm having a fairly hard time taking it seriously, and I didn't spend months modelling and texturing the thing

Would you want to spend so much time modelling and texturing the 'Mech to have so many people just not play it?

Do you think it makes whoever modeled the Cataphract, Kintaro, Vindicator etc. feel good knowing that their work is hardly ever seen in-game? Because that's the fate of bad 'Mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

JackalBeast, on 13 October 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

The shoulders on the Nova Cat, though supposed to be bulbous, seem strangely distended, like the dome shoulder pad is a little bit higher than it should be, disrupting the flow of line from shoulder to arm.

That and the angle of the NightStars arms definitely need to be adjusted quite a bit.

And the CT of the Osiris really annoys me. you know what I'm talking about.

They must enjoy seeing how much we pay attention to this ****.

Honestly my only beef with the NovaKitten is the arms are hanging like a Warhammer's, where traditionally they were high tucked like the NightGyr got. The shoulder remind me very much of my MWDA HeroClix which is IMO the best looking sculpt ever done of the NovaCat

TheArisen, on 13 October 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

Well I spent a considerable amount of time and effort druming up support for this mech and to have it be bad is just sad. We're not talking about ideal, we just want it to be good and not left to gather dust and be forgotten.

I think it's about fairness. When Impy finally got his mkII it ended up looking like total butt... how unfair would it be if your pet mech came out lookign good?

Obviously I'm the only one allowed to (mostly) get the mechs he like the way he likes them....

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

I think it's about fairness. When Impy finally got his mkII it ended up looking like total butt... how unfair would it be if your pet mech came out lookign good?

Obviously I'm the only one allowed to (mostly) get the mechs he like the way he likes them....

At least the MCII problems were limited to cosmetic impacts only. The NSR problems actually impact how it will perform in the game.

[TheArisen]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

Honestly my only beef with the NovaKitten is the arms are hanging like a Warhammer's, where traditionally they were high tucked like the NightGyr got. The shoulder remind me very much of my MWDA HeroClix which is IMO the best looking sculpt ever done of the NovaCat


I think it's about fairness. When Impy finally got his mkII it ended up looking like total butt... how unfair would it be if your pet mech came out lookign good?

Obviously I'm the only one allowed to (mostly) get the mechs he like the way he likes them....

*depression setting in* haha

[Rakshasa]

TheArisen, on 13 October 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

Well I spent a considerable amount of time and effort druming up support for this mech and to have it be bad is just sad. We're not talking about ideal, we just want it to be good and not left to gather dust and be forgotten.

That's fine, but after a depressing week spent dealing with persistent problems which affect actual people in the offline world, I can't help but feel that getting wound up to the point of discourtesy over slightly droopy arms on a mech model that can probably be fixed represents the very first of first world problems. Hence why I'm not having an easy time working myself up quite that much.

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Would you want to spend so much time modelling and texturing the 'Mech to have so many people just not play it?

Do you think it makes whoever modeled the Cataphract, Kintaro, Vindicator etc. feel good knowing that their work is hardly ever seen in-game? Because that's the fate of bad 'Mechs.

No, but I wouldn't want people to get invested over them to the point of anger either. By all means, ask to get the arms fixed - I only question the need for quite so much drama in doing so. Reasons above.

Edited by Rakshasa, 13 October 2017 - 06:04 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Rakshasa, on 13 October 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

That's fine, but after a depressing week spent dealing with persistent problems which affect actual people in the offline world, I can't help but feel that getting wound up to the point of discourtesy over slightly droopy arms on a mech model that can probably be fixed represents the very first of first world problems. Hence why I'm not having an easy time working myself up quite that much.

You are on a forum about MWO. MWO is naturally the most important thing in said forum. C'mon, now.

As for can probably be fixed, that's not really in question. The question is will it be fixed?

[TheArisen]

Rakshasa, on 13 October 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

That's fine, but after a depressing week spent dealing with persistent problems which affect actual people in the offline world, I can't help but feel that getting wound up to the point of discourtesy over slightly droopy arms on a mech model that can probably be fixed represents the very first of first world problems. Hence why I'm not having an easy time working myself up quite that much.

Personally I'm not saying grab the pitchforks just wanting to kindly petition for a few changes. I'm not saying it should ruin your day or something but just say "hey, this should be fixed"

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

You are on a forum about MWO. MWO is naturally the most important thing in said forum. C'mon, now.

As for can probably be fixed, that's not really in question. The question is will it be fixed?

This.

The fact is enough noise has to created to get Russ an co. to fix it

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

At least the MCII problems were limited to cosmetic impacts only. The NSR problems actually impact how it will perform in the game.

So do the Nova Cats... not sure wy the pitchfork aren't out on that, it's lost as much weapon elevation as the Nightstar.

I mean its hardpoints should make the Night Gyr green with Envy. Instead it got Warhammer arms.

But at least it's aesthetically acceptable. Not a huge consolation.. but hey it could be bad and look bad too. *shrugs*

I'm curious if they can manage to screw up my Hellspawn.. one would thing with as simple of geometry as it has, likely not... but then one looks at the IWM mini.... *sigh*

But hey... my Arctic Wold looks pretty good.. yay team?

[Rakshasa]

TheArisen, on 13 October 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

Personally I'm not saying grab the pitchforks just wanting to kindly petition for a few changes. I'm not saying it should ruin your day or something but just say "hey, this should be fixed"

Not singling out out specifically, just commenting on the general heat and gnashing of teeth about the issue.

TheArisen, on 13 October 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

The fact is enough noise has to created to get Russ an co. to fix it

This is probably true, and I wish you the best of luck in getting it fixed.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

So do the Nova Cats... not sure wy the pitchfork aren't out on that, it's lost as much weapon elevation as the Nightstar.

I mean its hardpoints should make the Night Gyr green with Envy. Instead it got Warhammer arms.

But at least it's aesthetically acceptable. Not a huge consolation.. but hey it could be bad and look bad too. *shrugs*

I'm curious if they can manage to screw up my Hellspawn.. one would thing with as simple of geometry as it has, likely not... but then one looks at the IWM mini.... *sigh*

But hey... my Arctic Wold looks pretty good.. yay team?

Probably because the IS are the ones with the consistent performance deficit and they don't have any good poking Assaults and the NSR had a small chance to maybe a little bit remedy that, and now it's busted. If I were on the Nova Cat train, I'd be miffed too, but pragmatically there's nothing much to miss about it when it is surrounded by best-in-class alternatives.

[Mark Nicholson]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

Seriously I keep wondering if the modeler simply forgot to add the CT boxes to the Osiris.

What CT boxes are you referring to?

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Probably because the IS are the ones with the consistent performance deficit and they don't have any good poking Assaults and the NSR had a small chance to maybe a little bit remedy that, and now it's busted. If I were on the Nova Cat train, I'd be miffed too, but pragmatically there's nothing much to miss about it when it is surrounded by best-in-class alternatives.

*shrugs*

Honestly I don't put too much weight into which side has what. The height difference between the art and the model is what...1.5 barrel widths? I'm not defending it, but if we're being truly honest, it's not much different than the location of a Nova's PPC in the ST vs Arm. A little more. Will it matter in Comp Play? Yes. Outside of it? I'd say realistically not in most cases.

And those who play comp tend to play whichever side has the best toys anyhow... so meh?

Does it suck? Sure. End of days? Not so sure of that, again, outside of Comp Circles.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

*shrugs*

Honestly I don't put too much weight into which side has what. The height difference between the art and the model is what...1.5 barrel widths? I'm not defending it, but if we're being truly honest, it's not much different than the location of a Nova's PPC in the ST vs Arm. A little more. Will it matter in Comp Play? Yes. Outside of it? I'd say realistically not in most cases.

You have to think about it in context. If this were a Medium, or even a faster Heavy, this wouldn't be such a big deal. But it's not. It's a 95 ton Assault, which makes it slow to accelerate, slow to decelerate, slow to turn, and very big. Even if it ends up being nimble for its class, that's still sluggish and easy to pick apart. With low weapons like that, it can't ridge-poke. Just ask the Mauler. With wide weapons like that, it can't side-poke; just ask the King Crab. Both of those tend to get killed early and often in QP when configured for poking. The only thing the NSR can do is full-expose power position, but it's flat-out inferior to other similar IS 'Mechs at that role because the engine cap, weapon location (arms), and presence of all those actuators all conspire to kill your speed, heat efficiency, and/or raw firepower.

Quote

And those who play comp tend to play whichever side has the best toys anyhow... so meh?

Does it suck? Sure. End of days? Not so sure of that, again, outside of Comp Circles.

Comp people want a reason for there to be some variety. Nobody likes it when just one 'Mech is so obviously better than everything else, let alone when all of those 'Mechs belong to the same faction. And it messes with FP, too, with PGI having to create a handicap.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mark Nicholson, on 13 October 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

What CT boxes are you referring to?

The bulbous snout is the first feature one notices on the Osiris. The In game version, both in art and model is pretty much the antithesis of that. You, or whoever did the model, were following the concept art. So if anything my complaint really goes to Alex. IDK what that mech is but it visually is NOT an Osiris.

but if anything it has LESS CT than the concept art.


It'll probably be great in play since it has almost no CT to hit, it should be the opposite of the Jenner. And that is OK I guess... but sorry, visually it's the ******* lovechild of Locust and a Razorback. But what it doesn't remotely resemble, is an Osiris. When the most prominent feature of a mech is missing... something is off.

I give props to the art department all the time. But when I feel they miss? I'm not going to not say it. The size of the CT on the Osiris, in concept art and in the model, is ludicrous. It;s one of my all time favorite Lights. And once the art was released, I knew I wasn't buying it.

*shrugs* I'm sure the Comp Crowd is happy with it. For me, if a mech can't at least be reasonably close to how it is supposed to look? I'd rather it be skipped for a different design. I'm not trying to be a ****, it's because of my respect for you and the rest of the art department that I speak so bluntly.

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

You have to think about it in context. If this were a Medium, or even a faster Heavy, this wouldn't be such a big deal. But it's not. It's a 95 ton Assault, which makes it slow to accelerate, slow to decelerate, slow to turn, and very big. Even if it ends up being nimble for its class, that's still sluggish and easy to pick apart. With low weapons like that, it can't ridge-poke. Just ask the Mauler. With wide weapons like that, it can't side-poke; just ask the King Crab. Both of those tend to get killed early and often in QP when configured for poking. The only thing the NSR can do is full-expose power position, but it's flat-out inferior to other similar IS 'Mechs at that role because the engine cap, weapon location (arms), and presence of all those actuators all conspire to kill your speed, heat efficiency, and/or raw firepower.



Comp people want a reason for there to be some variety. Nobody likes it when just one 'Mech is so obviously better than everything else, let alone when all of those 'Mechs belong to the same faction. And it messes with FP, too, with PGI having to create a handicap.

I'd love to believe that, yet when someone nerfs an over-performer it's those same people who "want variety" that screech loudest. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think the folks like you are Quicksilver are in the extreme minority in comp play.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

*shrugs* I'm sure the Comp Crowd is happy with it. For me, if a mech can't at least be reasonably close to how it is supposed to look? I'd rather it be skipped for a different design. I'm not trying to be a ****, it's because of my respect for you and the rest of the art department that I speak so bluntly.

Would actually rather have the CT, right now it's an ST magnet and that is bad, bad, bad for a semi-large IS Light that will be running XL. A slightly bigger CT can be swung left and right to spread damage better.

Quote

I'd love to believe that, yet when someone nerfs an over-performer it's those same people who "want variety" that screech loudest. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think the folks like you are Quicksilver are in the extreme minority in comp play.

Maybe. Seems to me that the majority of comp people don't actually say anything at all.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

Would actually rather have the CT, right now it's an ST magnet and that is bad, bad, bad for a semi-large IS Light that will be running XL. A slightly bigger CT can be swung left and right to spread damage better.



Maybe. Seems to me that the majority of comp people don't actually say anything at all.

Maybe not in the forums, but a lot more speak in game and in Reddit.

[Mark Nicholson]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

The bulbous snout is the first feature one notices on the Osiris.

Ah. You said box, so I was confused if it was missing something. Yes, I'm aware that the snout is not as bulbous as in the TRO art, or the MW4 model. I followed the direction provided carefully, both the concept, and the orthographic drawings (not yet released, sorry) clearly depicted a lack of the bulbousness found in the TRO.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2017 - 07:06 PM, said:

Maybe not in the forums, but a lot more speak in game and in Reddit.

I'm on Reddit, too. There are some screechers for sure, but from what I've seen they tend to get down-voted or remain neutral where the posts about the imbalance and lack of variety tend to get upvoted.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mark Nicholson, on 13 October 2017 - 07:06 PM, said:

Ah. You said box, so I was confused if it was missing something. Yes, I'm aware that the snout is not as bulbous as in the TRO art, or the MW4 model. I followed the direction provided carefully, both the concept, and the orthographic drawings (not yet released, sorry) clearly depicted a lack of the bulbousness found in the TRO.

Of that I am sure. Hence why I said "my bone" to pick, as it were, was with the concept art. I have seldom said "nope" to a design I have traditionally loved as fast as I did to the Osiris.

The Art for Thanatos and Hellspawn seem a lot more "on" with the traditional looks... but I admit it gives me some trepidation... if we get the Argus (a mech I really want) will it lean toward the Hellspawn and Thanatos and Nova Cat in it's resembling the MW4/TRO versions... or will it go the way of the Osiris or Uziel... 2 mechs I simply will not be buying or using.

And conversely I know there are people who probably prefer the MWO versions. I can only speak my thoughts, man. When I love something, few people promote it as heavy as I do for MWO... but when I feel that the mark was missed? It would be dishonest for me not to say so.

Fortunately the list of "MWO Fails" aesthetically is blessedly short.. and much much shorter by percentage than the actual TROs. And also, when it's a pet design, obviously one is likely to be more critical. For me? The Urbanmech, Jackal, Osiris and Mongoose are my favorite light mechs. So obviously I'm going to be critical. It's just a design choice I really don't understand the reasoning behind.