102 replies to this topic

[MadCat02]

There really is not that many different light mechs being played at Tier 1 which makes this game dull and boring . You have huge amount of mechs that are made obsolete by Artic and IIC Jenner and you can't blame people for playing mechs that are clearly superior .

People often play different lights to have fun but they know that few other Light do like everything else better . Clan Lights also have few things going for them that are simply not counter weighted on Inner Sphere side .

Biggest Factors :

Huge performance Difference between Small Laser and Clan Small laser

Clan ER Small laser for me is bread a butter of supplementary DPS (It is extremely important weapon for lights with large amount of energy hardpoints ). It is so DPS efficient that I actually run it on Mediums and Heavies as free damage if I have spare Energy slots and it works ridiculously well .Where Inner Sphere Small Laser Deals 2 Less Damage has ***** optimal range making it a complete garbage that I would never use .

Its like Complete Opposite . Useful for what it is and not usable at all .

Dealing 3 Damage and having 135 meter Optimal is unacceptable in this game as far as common sense goes .

Small Laser 3 Damage , 135 Meter Optimal 4 Damage , 160 Meter optimal . That 1 less heat on Inner sphere Small laser does not make one bit of a difference PGI . Currently this weapon is unusable .

Inner Sphere Lights are too slow without risky Inner Sphere XL engine

Its very uncommon for light mech to loose both shoulders before death but you can easily die from loosing 1 shoulder especially if someone manages to tag you on the back where you have almost no armor .

Inner Sphere Light mechs are pretty much forced to run XL engines because otherwise they cannot move fast enough to dodge most of laser beam's damage. Even then they have to sacrifice some firepower to go same speed as Clan mechs .

Perphas to avoid effecting other weight classes you could buff some of the Inner Sphere Light with 3 shoulder armor . Not sure how you calculate 3 ( because I mean like 3 in front and 3 in a back )

I personally think that Inner XL Engine needs to be drastically redesigned . Maybe it should reduce your speed by 50% and deal damage to nearby components when it explodes . You will still be basically dead but not completely out of the fight .



2-3 Clan Mediums can Act as decent mid range poke with 440+ buffed range

I know some people love to debate that Clan Mediums are too hot . ( yes they are ) . However you have to understand that this game is not all about DPS ( alpha striking and range poking is a big factor ) Light mechs have limited amount of space so if you went 2 ERL you would have low heat efficiency .

Now 2-3 Clan Mediums even with their high heat make a very good 3 Ton worth of 21 damage at mid range . Inner Sphere Mediums Lasers in best case scenario are short of 440+ optimal buffed Clan Mediums

I would like to see Inner sphere mediums receive more range and maybe increase heat by 1 .
Right now they basically like better Small lasers. Only few mechs with 10% range bonus can use them properly for mid range .


Laser Range Bonuses should have been selective . Not overall nerf .


Panther Is a very underwhelming light to play . He has up to 3 lasers in one arm ( ouch ) and they are in low location ( ouch again )

He was a terrible mech with 20% range bonus . Gets nerfed because of heavier mechs using ERL .

I liked that some crapy mechs had huge bonuses . Now why would anyone play them?

Edited by MadCat02, 17 April 2016 - 10:59 AM.

[Khobai]

Theres no role warfare at all in this game. Thats why everyone just defaults to playing heavies because they give you the best mix of all attributes.

The easiest way to make lights/mediums more relevant is to add proper sensor warfare. Damage should be reduced by 30% unless you have a target lock. And lights/mediums should have way better sensors than heavies/assaults. That would force heavies/assaults to depends on the lighter weight classes to maximize their damage.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Eh, clans have to fence at range otherwise the IS mechs will get close and rofl stomp them in the brawl. It's a decent bit of dynamic balance although it could use some work.

[Jackal Noble]

So wait... is this a twofer post? Nerf Clams and make teh lights that aren't the firestarter, jenner(plus oxide), wolfhound, raven better?

[MadCat02]

JackalBeast, on 17 April 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

So wait... is this a twofer post? Nerf Clams and make teh lights that aren't the firestarter, jenner(plus oxide), wolfhound, raven better?

If you want to make me believe that Firestarter or Jenner is better than Artic Cheetah or IIC Jenner you might as well tell me that you believe in Tier 1 MadUnicorn whom I see more often than any of the mechs you mentioned .

Edited by MadCat02, 17 April 2016 - 11:03 AM.

[Spheroid]

You do not speak for all Tier 1s.

[MadCat02]

Khobai, on 17 April 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

Theres no role warfare at all in this game. Thats why everyone just defaults to playing heavies because they give you the best mix of all attributes.

The easiest way to make lights/mediums more relevant is to add proper sensor warfare. Damage should be reduced by 30% unless you have a target lock. And lights/mediums should have way better sensors than heavies/assaults. That would force heavies/assaults to depends on the lighter weight classes to maximize their damage.

Not all Lights are capable of mounting ECM . Which is another thing that makes a lot of the lights less desirable .

Pretty much any good player already uses TAG on LRM boat . I don't really see how Lights would contribute . NARC is only good on wide open maps (2)

As far as I am concerned these days with weak ECM Lights are more of a back stabbers than anything else .

Edited by MadCat02, 17 April 2016 - 11:16 AM.

[MadCat02]

Spheroid, on 17 April 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

You do not speak for all Tier 1s.

Not that I said that I speak for you in a first place

Thank you for being completely useless to this discussion . Tier 1 player

Edited by MadCat02, 17 April 2016 - 11:19 AM.

[MadCat02]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 17 April 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

Eh, clans have to fence at range otherwise the IS mechs will get close and rofl stomp them in the brawl. It's a decent bit of dynamic balance although it could use some work.

That is actually not true at all. Clan AC are very weak at long range do to spread fire . In very close range that low weight of Clan UAC and its potential DPS is superior .

So technically its Inner Sphere that has the edge in long range as far as AC goes .

Laser Vomit is debatable . I would give ranged poke to Inner sphere actually because you can fire 3 ERL together . Some Clan mechs can have ridiculous laser alpha in close range with combination of LPL-Mediums and Small lasers .

Inner Sphere LRM is actually better in long range because it fires in groups making it harder to avoid .

Edited by MadCat02, 17 April 2016 - 11:36 AM.

[Barantor]

Some of it has to do with hard point inflation over time and because lights were a little bit OP when HSR was terrible back in the early years of this game.

Hardpoints on things like commandos and spiders have remained low while newer mechs tend to get a few more than normal. 35 tonners get the glut of hardpoints, but even the locust has more than the commando and spider.

[FupDup]

For the most part, the lights that are 100% obsolete have cripplingly gigantic design flaws, which were often inherited from their poorly designed Tabletop builds. Mist Lynx, Commando, Spider, I'm looking at you guys...

Beyond that, even the best lights aren't always able to contribute as much as their heavier brethren. It's mostly a product of Tabletop's construction system that was designed specifically to reward players for picking a bigger robot in multiple ways. MWO has been able to counteract this effect much more than any previous MW game, but there is still progress to be made...

[Wintersdark]

MadCat02, on 17 April 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

Not all Lights are capable of mounting ECM . Which is another thing that makes a lot of the lights less desirable .

Pretty much any good player already uses TAG on LRM boat . I don't really see how Lights would contribute . NARC is only good on wide open maps (2)

As far as I am concerned these days with weak ECM Lights are more of a back stabbers than anything else .

Huh? He didn't say ECM at all in his post.

For lights to have a genuine reason to exist, infowar needs to be a thing. Otherwise, you'll find the only lights that get fielded are the few with the strongest direct combat potential.

With Infowar in some form, lights gain another significant purpose, which can be buffed in the less combat capable lights (and, for that matter, mediums) as well as nerfed in most assaults and heavies.

I still prefer removing untargeted convergence over reducing untargeted damage (it's easier for my my brain to accept that as plausible) but whatever is done, it needs to increase value in mechs with less direct firepower. There's really no other way to give the bulk of lights a real purpose, as economy isn't a thing (and never will be) and you simply can't make all lights equally combat capable as heavies.

[Aresye]

MadCat02, on 17 April 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Inner Sphere Lights are too slow without risky Inner Sphere XL engine

Stopped right here. You have absolutely no clue on what you're talking about, the mechanics of the game, and probably make stupid choices (like putting standard engines in IS lights) that is the true reason why you feel they are obsolete.

Also, ever hear of the Oxide? Probably the BEST light at the current moment.

[MadCat02]

Wintersdark, on 17 April 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Huh? He didn't say ECM at all in his post.

For lights to have a genuine reason to exist, infowar needs to be a thing. Otherwise, you'll find the only lights that get fielded are the few with the strongest direct combat potential.

With Infowar in some form, lights gain another significant purpose, which can be buffed in the less combat capable lights (and, for that matter, mediums) as well as nerfed in most assaults and heavies.

I still prefer removing untargeted convergence over reducing untargeted damage (it's easier for my my brain to accept that as plausible) but whatever is done, it needs to increase value in mechs with less direct firepower. There's really no other way to give the bulk of lights a real purpose, as economy isn't a thing (and never will be) and you simply can't make all lights equally combat capable as heavies.

Did you not play this game the first 2 years ? When ECM was OP and any mech that had it was OP . I think ECM could use a small buff but its pretty obvious that we are passed that point .

[Wintersdark]

MadCat02, on 17 April 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

Did you not play this game the first 2 years ? When ECM was OP and any mech that had it was OP . I think ECM could use a small buff but its pretty obvious that we are passed that point .

What the hell are you talking about? Neither Khobai or I are discussing ECM in the slightest. It's utterly irrelevant to this discussion.

Whether it needs a buff or not doesn't matter.

[MadCat02]

Aresye, on 17 April 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

Stopped right here. You have absolutely no clue on what you're talking about, the mechanics of the game, and probably make stupid choices (like putting standard engines in IS lights) that is the true reason why you feel they are obsolete.

Also, ever hear of the Oxide? Probably the BEST light at the current moment.

"You have absolutely no clue on what you're talking about"
"and Probably"
"and Probably"
"and putting standart engines" - Which is the opposite of what I said actually .


You might be using the word stupid very loosely for someone who is trying to insult me 2 with lines of meaningless text .

Edited by MadCat02, 17 April 2016 - 11:53 AM.

[Escef]

MadCat02, on 17 April 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

If you want to make me believe that Firestarter or Jenner is better than Artic Cheetah or IIC Jenner you might as well tell me that you believe in Tier 1 MadUnicorn whom I see more often than any of the mechs you mentioned .

I have no idea how you came to that argument based upon what he said. He said no such thing about the FS9 or Jenner being better than the ACH or Jenner IIC. You made an astounding leap to change what he said into that. Look, if you need to fight someone that badly, go shoot people in-game, don't pick fights with people here based upon what you imagine they said.

[MadCat02]

Wintersdark, on 17 April 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Huh? He didn't say ECM at all in his post.

For lights to have a genuine reason to exist, infowar needs to be a thing. Otherwise, you'll find the only lights that get fielded are the few with the strongest direct combat potential.

With Infowar in some form, lights gain another significant purpose, which can be buffed in the less combat capable lights (and, for that matter, mediums) as well as nerfed in most assaults and heavies.

I still prefer removing untargeted convergence over reducing untargeted damage (it's easier for my my brain to accept that as plausible) but whatever is done, it needs to increase value in mechs with less direct firepower. There's really no other way to give the bulk of lights a real purpose, as economy isn't a thing (and never will be) and you simply can't make all lights equally combat capable as heavies.

Any reasonable person will automatically think about ECM as the most obvious thing that effects "sensor Warfare" ECM interacting with pretty much everything that has to do with targeting .

Besides "Reducing damage by 30% without Target Lock" Excuse me if I talk about "sensor warfare" in realistic way through the things that are actually in the game .

The other two most common thing that a Light Mech can to do for "sensory warfare" is Tag and Narc (sometimes sensor modules)

You have No idea ? I have no idea how you want to talk about "sensors" without talking about common thing that effect it . What kind of noob discussion is that .

Edited by MadCat02, 17 April 2016 - 12:28 PM.

[Wintersdark]

MadCat02, on 17 April 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

Any reasonable person will automatically think about ECM as the most obvious thing that effects "sensor Warfare"

Despite the fact that neither Khobai nor I mentioned ECM at all? And that Khobai's post was actually quite specific?

Quote

If you talking about buffing sensor warfare without talking about ECM be my guest . I am not interested in that discussion .

It's the only way to fix lights. You can change weapon balance, but that won't make the majority of lights valuable in matches. The best you'll accomplish is just removing the few that are used.

Edited by Wintersdark, 17 April 2016 - 12:06 PM.

[Crenue]

JackalBeast, on 17 April 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

So wait... is this a twofer post? Nerf Clams and make teh lights that aren't the firestarter, jenner(plus oxide), wolfhound, raven better?

They are better. They gave them so many freaking perks its crazy.