45 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

So the recent quirk pass definitely missed the mark like many other quirks this pass.

First, dissipation does not make up for the lack of heat gen quirks compared to its counterparts. The massive 30% heat gen quirk for PPCs that the BJ-3 gets allows it to be almost heat neutral with skills firing 2 PPCs (~91%) while the VND-1R which is the closest to the BJ-3 is only around 3/4 that (~76%), not factoring in cooldown quirks mind you. Heat Gen quirks are king in the current environment for energy boats.

Second, SIB changes were #Mediocre, you removed the fairly pointless duration quirk, but only gave it 5% heat gen in turn, which even with the dissipation quirk isn't a big deal. Is it really too much to ask for it to get the 1X's missile cooldown quirk and structure buffs, because that would be a great starting point. Improved accel/decel is nice but without all the other factors like durability or firepower being good is sort of pointless.

Third, the 1X buffs all over the place, PPC velocity buff is pointless since you can only mount 1, and the velocity desync's them from potential combinations for ballistics (AC5s/AC10s). The ballistic cooldown however is nice, since it is general unlike the BJ-1, but it would be nice to get the range/velocity quirk of the BJ-1 considering the 1X should be using AC5/10s which are slower projectiles. Also, seriously give the SIB the 1X's worthless missile cooldown.

Fourth, no 1AA quirks? Seriously even the 1AA is mediocre. Give it some structure quirks like the 1X and some mild accel/decel quirks.

[Deathlike]

Grumpy Cat said:

No.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Death, I think you meant to call him ruiner of dreams, not grumpy cat, he may have evolved after this last quirk pass.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 April 2016 - 09:56 AM.

[Deathlike]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 April 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

Death, I think you meant to call him ruiner of dreams, not grumpy cat, he may have evolved after this last quirk pass.

If you mean "another way to be loled @", then I guess that's "evolving".

I'm still trying to figure out what meta some of the nerfs was to counter. Is it the Lolcust-3V meta with those 2 MGs? Is it the secret Vindi-meta that involves the existing of mech unicorns like the hero? Is it the magical Jester meta where it survives the magical trek to Mordor?

I dunno man, I'm trying to figure out the Nova+Ice Ferret nerfs.

[Juodas Varnas]

I, for one, think that it's not quirks that the Vindicators need, right now.

It's hardpoints.
Give all of the variants extra hardpoints (they do have the geometry to support it).
Give the 1R - 5E and 2M hardpoints
The SIB - 4E and 3M hardpoints
The 1X - 3E and 2M and 3B hardpoints
The 1AA - 5E and 1M hardpoints

(I'd also increase the engine-caps to 250 on 1R and 1X models, SIB already has this and 1AA has a higher one)
And voilà!
Vindicators are probably meh-tier instead of trash-tier!

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 19 April 2016 - 10:06 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

It has always need more hardpoints, but better quirks are more likely given their "no hardpoint changes" stance (which is silly imo).

[Felicitatem Parco]

Given the Vindie quirks, think of this:

Phoenix Hawk has the same construction ( 45 ton IS humanoid with LAAs) but has more hardpoints, bigger engines, and better equipment than the Vindie.

The PH should be dropping practically without quirks according g to PGI doctrine (better equipment means lesser quirks).

[MeiSooHaityu]

I'd like to see a higher engine cap, but I'd also like to see some durability quirks.

The mech is light in the armor/structure department due to it being 45 tons. That's ok in a lower profile mechs that are fast like the Cicada or mechs with high hard points to better use cover like the BJ. A humanoid mech like the Vindicator that has the tall exposure of a humanoid, low mount weapons, and lower engine cap makes it very vulnerable. It doesn't have the same benefits as other chassis similar in weight.

It needs some structure/armor buffing IMO. The funny thing is, the Phoenix Hawk will have similar issues but I bet it will get some durability buffing (to go with it's faster engine, MASC, and ECM), but still nothing for the poor Vindicator .

[Ultimax]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

It has always need more hardpoints, but better quirks are more likely given their "no hardpoint changes" stance (which is silly imo).

Yeah this part is just misguided obstinance.

We won't add hardpoints, unless of course its the first time releasing a mech - then we will inflate them.

Instead we will add quirks, or we won't, or we will but then we will take them away or change them completely.

Oh, we might give it a 50% CD quirk because it only has 2 hardpoints - but wait, actually that's problematic, we don't want to give 50% CD quirks.

Enough is enough already just balance the hardpoints, balance the base equipment, balance the omni-mech designs so locked equipment isn't fine for a few of them and a clear detrimental balance issue to the majority of them.

So stubborn on something they have repeatedly gotten wrong and have proven unable to manage or maintain.

[Deathlike]

Ultimax, on 19 April 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

Yeah this part is just misguided obstinance.

We won't add hardpoints, unless of course its the first time releasing a mech - then we will inflate them.

Instead we will add quirks, or we won't, or we will but then we will take them away or change them completely.

Oh, we might give it a 50% CD quirk because it only has 2 hardpoints - but wait, actually that's problematic, we don't want to give 50% CD quirks.

Enough is enough already just balance the hardpoints, balance the base equipment, balance the omni-mech designs so locked equipment isn't fine for a few of them and a clear detrimental balance issue to the majority of them.

So stubborn on something they have repeatedly gotten wrong and have proven unable to manage or maintain.

There are no parameters.

Dartboard of balance? I think there are large holes in it.

[Yosharian]

The latest quirk pass shows the following:

PGI doesn't give a flying **** about dead mechs.

[kapusta11]

Behold, papa kapusta's quirks:

1X:
- Energy Cooldown 25%
- Ballistic Velocity 25%
- No additional PPC velocity
- Ballisitc Range 25%
- Energy heat gen 15%
- PPC heat gen 15%
- Double internals structure, like Hunchback 4SP
- 40% turn rate
- 40% accel/decal rate

1R:
- Energy heat gen 15%
- PPC heat gen 15%
- PPC velocity 50%
- Energy cooldown 15%
- Energy range 10%
- Medium laser range 10%
- Laser duration 10%
- Medium laser duration 15%
- Double internals structure
- 40% turn rate
- 40% accel/decal rate

1AA:
- Energy heat gen 10%
- PPC heat gen 20%
- PPC velocity 50%
- Energy range 10%
- Energy cooldown 20%
- Double internals structure
- 40% turn rate
- 40% accel/decal rate

ST. IVES’ BLUES:
- Energy Cooldown 15%
- Missile Cooldown 20%
- Energy heat gen 15%
- Missile Heat gen 15%
- Energy range 10%
- Missile Velocity 10%
- SRM spread 10%
- Laser duration 25%
- Double internals structure
- 40% turn rate
- 40% accel/decal rate

[cazidin]

PGI made the right decision in nerfing the Vindicator. It was simply too powerful with its abundance of hardpoints, large max engine cap, well designed and balanced hitboxes and until now mega quirks. I hope to see fewer Vindicators on the field now that they're back in line.

Now PGI has to take a serious look at the Shadowhawk, the Quickdraw and the Awesome. Maybe even give another minor nerf to the Kit Fox.

[FupDup]

Vindicator said:

Perpetually mediocre.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Meh, it's not gonna change any of my Vindicrater configs. Not worth chasing quirks when you're in a trash tier ride to begin with... better to have fun and hope for the best. My Blue will still be one of my favorite mediums; it'll just be on hard mode until the spreadsheet monkey gets its head out of its posterior and fixes things... which will probably happen around the time PGI decides to stop hating on the 25-tonners. So... three weeks after the heat death of the universe, I guess?

[LT. HARDCASE]

Need to start peppering Russ with #SaveTheVindicator2016.

I seriously don't understand why the Blackjack gets so much love, when it's so superior to the Vindi in all of the basic facets that matter: more compact, more hardpoints and higher hardpoints.

[Adamski]

I think we are at the point where we should petition Russ to fire whomever is in charge of Quirks, as it is pretty obvious at this point they have no idea WTF they are doing.

They get some things right, like a slight retuning of the Black Knight, since it was as powerful as a Timberwolf, and we cant have the Clans not being superior. But then the rest of the changes are just idiotic.

[Livaria]

I would appreciate if the arms had more armor instead of structure quirks. It turns out, hits are easily registered on the arms concerning hitboxes. It's almost no question that heavy weaponry will usually be mounted in the arms as well.

Since heavy weaponry usually takes up a lot of critical space. It becomes *very* easy to lose an Autocannon, PPC, or a Gauss Rifle to a critical hit. A little bit more armor or critical hit resistance would help. Try mounting a gauss rifle on the 1X and you will undoubtedly see what I mean.

Edited by Livaria, 19 April 2016 - 04:24 PM.

[Livaria]

Adamski, on 19 April 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

I think we are at the point where we should petition Russ to fire whomever is in charge of Quirks, as it is pretty obvious at this point they have no idea WTF they are doing.

Russ: Oh sure let's fire our quirk guy! Quirk guy, you're fired.
*10 days later*
Russ: We've got ourselves a new quirk guy! We've updated our quirks accordingly.
Adamski: These new quirks are great!
*Henry enters the room*
Henry: I think we are at the point where we should petition Russ to fire whomever is in charge of Quirks, as it is pretty obvious at this point they have no idea WTF they are doing.
Russ: Oh sure let's fire our quirk guy! Quirk guy, you're fired.

Edited by Livaria, 19 April 2016 - 05:17 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

most of the quirk changes do that. Look at the firestarter lol flamer range quirk