222 replies to this topic

[Reptilizer]

Steve Pryde, on 20 April 2016 - 04:48 AM, said:

Just drop with a Laservomit or Ac20 Hunchback. GG Streak Crow.

Go out and try it. It does not work that well, you are lucky to get three shots off with your hunch before you die. Oxide/Griffins/SHawks are ok. But still somewhat subpar.

[Reptilizer]

2fast2stompy, on 20 April 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

Griffins will straight up murder streak crows and have the exact same speed. For streaks to be effective, you need to stay outside of SRM range, or you're dead.

And honestly, the better team always wins, just like the rest of the game.
I saw 4 lights wolfpack 4 crows one at a time and win, and I saw cents and griffins just deathball through 4 crows and not give a ****.

The mode is still deathball or die.

The exact same speed? What kind of build are you talking about? Pack an xl330 in your griffin 2N and you severly gimp it in armor, heat sinks ammo/JJ or firepower.
The 2N works well with 4x6srm and artemis. But then it does NOT have the same speed.

[ScarecrowES]

I think I'm going to continue to bring out my Stormcrows as long as I keep seeing only Griffins, Oxides, and Blackjacks on the IS side. Goes both ways. You want to bring your meta mechs, I'm taking mine to counter them.

Every one of 12 scouting match I did last night was full of those mechs... almost no variety on the IS side. Lots of folks taking SRM vomit and going for the legs. Just so much fun to play against that over and over.

[Johnny Z]

Reptilizer, on 20 April 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

The exact same speed? What kind of build are you talking about? Pack an xl330 in your griffin 2N and you severly gimp it in armor, heat sinks ammo/JJ or firepower.
The 2N works well with 4x6srm and artemis. But then it does NOT have the same speed.

He just said 4 Inner Sphere lights beat 4 Streak Crows. The guy is LYING don't respond to his lies.

[Juodas Varnas]

Let IS run Steiner Scouts (Atlases) and it's balanced!

[2fast2stompy]

Reptilizer, on 20 April 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

The exact same speed? What kind of build are you talking about? Pack an xl330 in your griffin 2N and you severly gimp it in armor, heat sinks ammo/JJ or firepower.
The 2N works well with 4x6srm and artemis. But then it does NOT have the same speed.

1N 3ML 3SRM4A XL325 has the same speed (well, 1km/h less, you can shave off half a ton of ammo for 104), more DPS (both absolute and sustained, the latter by a margin of 50%, and that damage is concentrated on a single component instead of spread over the entire mech).
I thought the 3M would have a similar speed, but the 4SRM4A 2 ML is 8km/h slower

Both can keep their absolute max DPS for longer than a streak crow, too, albeit at a shorter range, which is why you need speed. IS XL is basically a non-issue against streaks. I don't know what you think you need JJs for against a streak crow

But yeah, use SRM4, better spread and weight, and the DPS is only 0.4 less then SRM6 (5.1 vs 4.7) and lets you pack more speed

Edit: I'm looking at the 2N now

Edit2: Well, XL 325 4SRM4A 2ML 2N with ECM and full armor save for the left arm is still stronger in a brawl than a streak crow, but pretty less than the others. You might be able to squeeze more out of it with some effort, but idk

I honestly have some doubts about the value of ECM in a streak situation. Yes, it takes longer to get a lock, and you can stay hidden at a distance, but protector makes you actually kill your enemies, and any streak crow worth its weight will have CAP, so I'd argue for more firepower instead (in the context of a medium brawler)

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 20 April 2016 - 05:54 AM.

[TexAce]

VendingMachine, on 19 April 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

The problem I see though, is your suggestions for fighting back these Streak Crows is to pack 4x AC/20's or whatever - I feel like its just kind of going to turn into a 4v4 Skirmish...

Not that a bunch of lights wouldn't either but, I just feel like that a 40 Ton limit wouldn't cater to that so much... I guess Im not sure.

then it would be 4xOxide vs 4xACH

ScarecrowES, on 20 April 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

I think I'm going to continue to bring out my Stormcrows as long as I keep seeing only Griffins, Oxides, and Blackjacks on the IS side. Goes both ways. You want to bring your meta mechs, I'm taking mine to counter them.

Every one of 12 scouting match I did last night was full of those mechs... almost no variety on the IS side. Lots of folks taking SRM vomit and going for the legs. Just so much fun to play against that over and over.

Going for legs with SMR6 and their ridiculous spread is not what I call intelligent.

[Haipyng]

The Streakcrow is largely a one trick pony. It is a light hunter. Great against lights, fair against lighter mediums, not so good against heavies (Streaks don't do pinpoint damage and you need to do a lot of damage to bring down a heavy) and bad against anything with weapons that reach outside of Streak range.

Tactics also play a roll, a light with ECM and peek and shoot style does bad things to the Streakcrow. They have to Lock-on before they can fire.

If your attacking a Lance as a single (what can you expect other than a fast death?) or not scouting the opposing Lance for your group before you attack with at least thought toward tonnage then you are not playing smart and just rolling the dice.

[Reptilizer]

2fast2stompy, on 20 April 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

1N 3ML 3SRM4A XL325 has the same speed (well, 1km/h less, you can shave off half a ton of ammo for 104), more DPS (both absolute and sustained, the latter by a margin of 50%)
I thought the 3M would have a similar speed, but the 4SRM4A 2 ML is 8km/h slower

Both can keep their absolute max DPS for longer than a streak crow, too, albeit at a shorter range, which is why you need speed. IS XL is basically a non-issue against streaks. I don't know what you think you need JJs for against a streak crow

But yeah, use SRM4, better spread and weight, and the DPS is only 0.4 less then SRM6 (5.1 vs 4.7) and lets you pack more speed

Edit: I'm looking at the 2N now

Edit2: Well, XL 325 4SRM4A 2ML 2N with ECM and full armor save for the left arm is still stronger in a brawl than a streak crow, but pretty less than the others. You might be able to squeeze more out of it with some effort, but idk

I honestly have some doubts about the value of ECM in a streak situation. Yes, it takes longer to get a lock, and you can stay hidden at a distance, but protector makes you actually kill your enemies, and any streak crow worth its weight will have CAP, so I'd argue for more firepower instead (in the context of a medium brawler)

Against better knowledge just taking your example to smurfy:

Griffin -> GRF-1N
Crow -> SCR-D

You make tweak around on the griffin if you like, cutting away JJs or armor or ammo or heatsinks, but bringing it on par with the crow needs chuck norris.

[Reptilizer]

Haipyng, on 20 April 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

The Streakcrow is largely a one trick pony. It is a light hunter. Great against lights, fair against lighter mediums, not so good against heavies (Streaks don't do pinpoint damage and you need to do a lot of damage to bring down a heavy) and bad against anything with weapons that reach outside of Streak range.

Tactics also play a roll, a light with ECM and peek and shoot style does bad things to the Streakcrow. They have to Lock-on before they can fire.

If your attacking a Lance as a single (what can you expect other than a fast death?) or not scouting the opposing Lance for your group before you attack with at least thought toward tonnage then you are not playing smart and just rolling the dice.

Which is why in an environment without heavies, it is top of the foodchain.
Peekabo and ECM do not work so well. 4 BAPs and higher speed give you one free alpha if you are lucky.

And then, since clan is not stupid, there are also nice laservomitcrows thrown in the mix usually. Small lasers are deadly enough when no heavy is around...

[Mawai]

The problem is that crows are fast with lots of firepower.

IS mechs with the firepower to threaten crows effectively are too slow. A Crow will do something like 105kph while IS mediums are usually around 80kph depending on loadouts (especially with AC20s ... might be even slower)

IS mechs with XL engines are also sitting ducks ... against a streakcrow this gives the clans 3 opportunities to kill the IS mech rather than just the CT. Without the XL engine ... IS is even slower and won't be able to keep up with crows as they gather data points.

I can see the issue folks are complaining about

The Stormcrow has ALWAYS been one of the best mechs in the game ... one of the triumvirate of clan OP mechs (Timber, Stormcrow, Dire) which are more effective than any of their IS counterparts. This is less of an issue in a full match where the IS can bring heavies that can stand up to a crow ... however, it is an issue when the crow is the maximum tonnage allowed in the match.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the tonnage limit was reduced to 50 tons ... though in that case I suspect you would get a lance of Arctic Cheetahs which are even faster but have less firepower

[2fast2stompy]

Reptilizer, on 20 April 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

Against better knowledge just taking your example to smurfy:

Griffin -> GRF-1N
Crow -> SCR-D

You make tweak around on the griffin if you like, cutting away JJs or armor or ammo or heatsinks, but bringing it on par with the crow needs chuck norris.

I can't bother with smurfy because it lags like hell every time I change a point of armor or add something, but strip the empty arm. 3ML and 3SRM4A with 3 tons of ammo and 3 heatsinks in engine leaves you with 4.5 tons free. You can use those for more heatsinks, ammo and a jumpjet if you really want it. with 4 extra heatsinks and a half a ton of ammo, you get DPS of 14.3 and sustained of 9.3 fully leveled

Even your build gives me 14.3 max and 7.4 sustained (vs your crow's 9.3 and 7.9)
Check out Li Song mechbay if you don't have it, it works a bit better than smurphy, it takes quirks into account

And remember the important part: the crow spreads that dps over your entire mech, you do not.

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 20 April 2016 - 06:11 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

I fear they will simple hot fix the max tonnage from 55 towards 45 oblivious to a better solution like tonnage limits.
140-150tons for the attacker
160-175tons for the defender

[Reptilizer]

2fast2stompy, on 20 April 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

I can't bother with smurfy because it lags like hell every time I change a point of armor or add something, but strip the empty arm. 3ML and 3SRM4A with 3 tons of ammo and 3 heatsinks in engine leaves you with 4.5 tons free. You can use those for more heatsinks, ammo and a jumpjet if you really want it. with 4 extra heatsinks and a half a ton of ammo, you get DPS of 14.3 and sustained of 9.3.

Even your build gives me 14.3 max and 7.4 sustained (vs your crow's 9.3 and 7.9)
Check out Li Song mechbay if you don't have it, it works a bit better than smurphy

And remember the important part: the crow spreads that dps over your entire mech, you do not.

Crow spreads, but all hits.
Spread is also relative. 4srmA is good, but not pinpoint and your 3ML are all over the place.
The crow does not have to face you to fire and you have to go for legs which is a challenge (to keep it polite) with that setup.

In short: I tried the griffin (2N) yesterday and i am not convinced it can consistently compete.

[Beartech]

SoggyGorilla, on 19 April 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

how is a 55 ton storm crow with 5 x 6 SSRM a scouting mech?
do they put any thought in to the development of this game?
guess its time for me start trolling.

Wow, just wow. A IS pilot whining because their over quirked training wheel boats don't just face roll their clan opponent?

Didn't see this coming. (sarcasm just in-case for reading comprehension)

Ran a bunch of scout missions yesterday and it was fairly even. Looks like someone didn't solo a whole pack of clanners and got buthurt.

[2fast2stompy]

Reptilizer, on 20 April 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:

Crow spreads, but all hits.
Spread is also relative. 4srmA is good, but not pinpoint and your 3ML are all over the place.
The crow does not have to face you to fire and you have to go for legs which is a challenge (to keep it polite) with that setup.

In short: I tried the griffin (2N) yesterday and i am not convinced it can consistently compete.

You never go for legs on a crow. Ever.
Like I said, I don't think the 2N is a good match for it (I edited a post above, you may have missed it).
As for "it all hits" and "ML are all over the place"... you need to aim. Unless you're getting focused by 4 crows, you will ALWAYS beat a streak crow in a brawl, given equal skill.You need less than 3 clean shots on the ct to kill it, less than 2 on a side torso to strip 40-60% of its firepower.
It needs a lock to even fire, so it will spend a good amount of time face tanking you. Learn to hold your fire to focus components instead of firing whenever possible.

The torsos are easily isolated with the boxes above the cockpit from any angle, and its CT is exposed even on a 90 degree angle

The only time a streak crow has ANY advantage over you is when you're caught out in the open and it's outside of SRM range, but still within streak range, and even then, you can close and kill it if you're not alone against multiple crows.

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 20 April 2016 - 06:34 AM.

[Beartech]

xWiredx, on 19 April 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

Do you not know about the meta Wolverines, Griffins, and Firestarters?

And also this - I ran into more wolverines that I could count yesterday. They blew me up just fine in my crow.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Reptilizer, on 20 April 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

Oxide/Griffins/SHawks are ok. But still somewhat subpar.

Wat. No, just no, these should be the goto strong suit of the IS, but no one is willing to do it. Streakcrows are not that dominant, almost every comp group that did scouting last night found them to not be as effective as other options. Streakcrow masses are also susceptible to intel wins because speed is a must have.

TexAce, on 20 April 2016 - 05:28 AM, said:

Going for legs with SMR6 and their ridiculous spread is not what I call intelligent.

Good thing you don't play comp then huh .

Legging is the norm, even with missiles, in any lower end weight brawl.



PSA
If you are IS and having trouble beating Skillcrow spam, take 4 Griffin 2Ns (4 ASRM6), or split it 2 Oxide (4 SRM4), 2 GRF-2N and just brawl the crap out of them (take their legs) and then win. Granted, you do actually have to be a good shot.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 20 April 2016 - 06:40 AM.

[Gabbatek]

i think it should be 100 ton limit

[sycocys]

Last time I think I'm going to post this and I'll just post a couple mechs so people can start to work it out on their own -

Griffin-2N - ECM, 4 SRM6/A - 3 tons, 2 ML, xl300 -- with 4 of them you completely destroy locks as soon as you drop the first crow.

Hunchback - 4SP - 2 SRM6/A - 2tons, 5 MPL, xl275 -- will annihilate streak crows.
Hunchback - 4P - 2 LPL, 6 ML - xl275 - pinpoint shredding

Start there, work together, call targets + locations (L/R ST or just CT, know where everyone is firing before you engage) - and drop them like flies.

Edited by sycocys, 20 April 2016 - 06:45 AM.