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What Do You Think Of 4V4 "scout" Game Mode?

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#21 Mystere

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:49 PM

View PostFupDup, on 19 April 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

The "fluff" explanation of these battles is that you're trying to collect intelligence about enemy forces, the heavy/assault classes aren't even allowed in the mode, and the mode is called SCOUTING.


A "light" is not necessarily a "scout", a "scouting team" does not imply everyone should be a "scout", and in a battlefield where you expect "scouts", deploying "scout killers" is a valid response.

Edited by Mystere, 19 April 2016 - 01:51 PM.


#22 Triordinant

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:59 PM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 19 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

So maybe PGI didn't fail. Maybe Russ wanted another "just brawl bro" game mode and it is working as intended. And the whole intel beacon aspect is just a little razzledazzle for Faction warfare scoring, makes it easier to determine when the 12v12 matches get satelite sweeps, long toms, etc.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this is exactly what they wanted.

You're probably right -and why wouldn't they want it? It's what 80+% of their players want as well.

#23 Adamski

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:01 PM

The new 4v4 mode favors:
Speed for gathering intel - cXL engines
Ability to scare off lights / other mediums - SSRM6

Drop options - Anything between 20-55 tons - Bring a Skillcrow

Hi5 PGI, you just created a mode that favors Clans heavily. Anything that the IS tries to bring to counter the Skillcrow can either be easily outrun by taking a slower STD engine, or easily killed with a super fragile iXL engine.

#24 Mystere

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:07 PM

View PostAdamski, on 19 April 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

The new 4v4 mode favors:
Speed for gathering intel - cXL engines
Ability to scare off lights / other mediums - SSRM6

Drop options - Anything between 20-55 tons - Bring a Skillcrow

Hi5 PGI, you just created a mode that favors Clans heavily. Anything that the IS tries to bring to counter the Skillcrow can either be easily outrun by taking a slower STD engine, or easily killed with a super fragile iXL engine.


In an alternate Battletech universe where the Clans are "just like the Inner Sphere", it only seems fitting that they get to have easier access to artillery to relentlessly pound freeborn scum.

In other words, people should really be very careful what they wish for. <maniacal Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image>

Edited by Mystere, 19 April 2016 - 02:11 PM.


#25 jss78

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:09 PM

It does seem to revert back to skirmish. But I'll say that light-and-medium 4-vs-4 skirmish is a ton of fun. So even at worst case it does offer considerable variety from the other game modes.

Caveat: I didn't play against clans. IS vs IS you seem to get decent mech variety. The already-mentioned Griffin is quite popular, also lots of Cicadas and a refreshing number of Shadow Hawks.

#26 Alistair Winter

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:13 PM

View PostAdamski, on 19 April 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Hi5 PGI, you just created a mode that favors Clans heavily. Anything that the IS tries to bring to counter the Skillcrow can either be easily outrun by taking a slower STD engine, or easily killed with a super fragile iXL engine.

Depends on the skill level, I think. IS players with good aim will generally beat Skillcrows if they bring 50-55 ton mechs with lots of structure quirks, good alphastrikes and high DPS. Such as the SRM+Artemis Griffin, for example. I don't think it's a big problem at the highest level. The problem is that CW has a lot of new IS players trying 4v4 and just constantly getting smashed by Streakcrows, with no hope of doing anything back.

Imagine all the new players thinking that they can try 4v4 in their Locusts, Ravens, Commandos, Jenners, Panthers, Wolfhounds, Urbanmechs or whatever, and just constantly running into 4-man teams with 3+ Streakcrows. That must be a very underwhelming experience. So they then upgrade to medium mechs and they bring Centurions, Trebs, Cicadas, Streak-Kintaros or whatever else. And they still get smashed, because they can't quite figure out that there's only a handful of mechs with very specific builds that can deal with Streakcrows at their skill level.

#27 Metus regem

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:14 PM

View PostWill Hawker, on 19 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

I scout the traditional Marik way, with a Wolverine. 2 lights and 2 mediums would be the optimal drop for it imo.



I thought the traditional Marik way would've been to use one of these?

Posted Image

http://www.sarna.net...Savannah_Master

#28 Reptilizer

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:19 PM

View PostQueen of England, on 19 April 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

4v4 medium brawl mode actually sounds pretty fun.


Nah, its not actually.
4 minutes searching each other, 1 minute Battle without tactics, 15 Minutes wait for the next match.
PUG quick match is loads more fun AND more tactics. And that alone implies a lot...

#29 Alistair Winter

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:27 PM

View PostReptilizer, on 19 April 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:


Nah, its not actually.
4 minutes searching each other, 1 minute Battle without tactics, 15 Minutes wait for the next match.
PUG quick match is loads more fun AND more tactics. And that alone implies a lot...

Yeah, you may be right. Looks like 4 minutes searching and then "LEGS, LEGS, AIM FOR THE LEGS" and then you take out 1 mech, 2 mechs and it's over. Then spend 2 minutes looking for easter eggs, if you're the attacker.

Not a whole lot of thinking man's shooter in this game mode, I think.

#30 Corbon Zackery

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:40 PM

I had about 12 matches before the cease fire this afternoon.

I found it at first to be pretty competitive 4v4 matches were mech loadout (AC 20) made a difference in wins vs losses. I don't like PGI Mexican army vs full 4 man com team approach that was a big turn off.

Then towards the end it became more weird as full teams split up to collect data. Team work dropped to a all time low. As I tried to communicate to people that the (228) was using a AC 20 Wang and AC 20 enforcer that you needed to target the arms.

Now the data collection aspect is the weirdest part because most people were collecting 1 or 2 beacons. Then blowing away the enemy team. Then extracting now how that affects the invasion as a whole is a big mystery. At some point you should have it so at least 6 of the beacons must be collected for a win.

Also the dropship Large lasers need to be nerfed big time. The whole auto aim auto hit large lasers at the dropzone is overkill. If the enemy collects more data than the scout team then the only way for the scout team to win should be to kill the enemy force. It should not trigger a dust off.

Right now known issues: SRM accuracy is way to high on some of the teams I faced. I tried to hit a 147kph mech with SRM its not easy. Same thing with these AC 20 teams once again no way you can hit a 147kph mech with a AC 20 then hit the same spot 3 sec later. So I suspect some auto aim assistance is being used. Not uncommon with joystick coding or mouse coding of the R key with torso movement. Not a big deal since most Medium mechs have the cannon in the arm 32 armor points or a torso.

All in all not bad 4 on 4 combat. Can it be improved sure. Can it be one sided YEP!!!! How it affects the invasion (shrug)?????

Nice 1:30 load time so you can get in a lot of matches. Where Invasion you might sit for what 30min before a full team loads.

Oh Yummy Yummy Yummy I got locust in my tummy!!!!!

3 out of 5 stars good but needs improvement.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 19 April 2016 - 02:44 PM.


#31 Roadkill

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:55 PM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 19 April 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

  • If you defend and you cap intel points, you trigger enemy extraction. If they get one mech on the square, they get the intel points they've captured. If the defenders trigger the extraction and the extraction point is somewhere that is hard to see (e.g. on the border of the map, behind a mountain) then you probably won't know where to go. In otherwords, defenders should probably always focus on kills, not try to trigger extraction.
  • If you attack and you cap intel points, you trigger your own extraction. However... if you spread out, you risk losing mechs because the defenders will most likely be hunting you. And after you kill the enemy mechs, you have ~2 minutes to pick up intel anyway, with no risk. So why not just kill enemy mechs right away?

I'm at work, so haven't had the chance to play yet. So pure speculation. (That's always the best kind!)

Don't you think it will depend on the other rewards?

It seems to me that an organized Attacker could EASILY spread out to pick up 10 intel points and trigger the extraction, possibly before they've even been detected by the defenders. It only takes 3 seconds per point, which is barely more than stopping in the square and then taking off again. So provided the rewards are good enough, this seems like the proper Attacker strategy.

So now the Defender has to decide... do I try to kill or do I try to counter-cap? Given the above, it seems like counter-cap is the only answer because trying to kill is going to net you 1, maybe 2 kills, then the survivors are going to have the intel they need and they'll be off.

But if the Defender counter-caps... CHAOS. You might have 4 different duels. Those duels might drift into each other, or into an unengaged Mech. A faster Mech will likely try to disengage to cap intel elsewhere, possibly dragging the slower Mech out of position.

On paper, at least, it seems like the objectives might actually be the best way to win. Of course if it isn't worth it (read: c-bills & loyalty points) to win by objective, then this mode will fall back to Skirmish like all other modes.

#32 Novakaine

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:56 PM

Hadn't played yet, but they really need some help in the imagination department.
A scouting mission should not devolve into a instant brawl.
Sneak in enemy base grab intel then run like hell to get away.
I'm gonna assume the defenders just camp on the intel patch and wait?
Major cbills should be given to those who manage to sneak in and get away undetected.
The keyword being undetected.
Equally if they get captured the defender should get a cbill boost also.
Not just the usual kill em dead ya'll game play

#33 EvilCatEars

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:12 PM

View PostFupDup, on 19 April 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

>New game mode is supposed to favor lights
>It favors max-size medium brawlers instead
>Hilarity ensues


>Light mechs buffed to be able to compete in Scouting Operations
>Lots of extra structure, armor, firepower/cooling and mobility quirks given
>Lights still cant compete, but are now much better at farming assault mechs in solo queue
>People cry that new quirks for light mechs are op, and their role should be scouting
>Light mechs respond: we got buffs so we can perform our scoutng missions
>Even more hilarity ensues

edit: spelling

Edited by EvilCatEars, 19 April 2016 - 03:14 PM.


#34 Alistair Winter

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:15 PM

View PostRoadkill, on 19 April 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

So now the Defender has to decide... do I try to kill or do I try to counter-cap? Given the above, it seems like counter-cap is the only answer because trying to kill is going to net you 1, maybe 2 kills, then the survivors are going to have the intel they need and they'll be off.

I haven't really tried this too much, so I may have underestimated the impact of the dropship on the game mode. My thinking was that the defenders could simply beat the attackers to their extraction point, but if the dropship is insta-gibbing the defenders when they get close, then it may indeed be hard to prevent them from escaping. Because you can't really cut them off without dying.

So maybe the winning strategy for defenders may be to spread out, if attackers are spreading out.

Then again, if attackers are grouping up and just hunting kills, then defenders can't spread out at all.

Perhaps the outcome will be somewhat random, because you can't really change strategy when the engagement starts. Once you pick a strategy at the start of the match, "the die has been cast", perhaps. Roughly speaking, there may be 4 different outcomes depending on what strategy the teams are picking. And it may always favour the attacker, if I'm analyzing things correctly.

Posted Image

#35 IsaAurinkoinen

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:16 PM

Actually I like it.

IS vs IS 2 mediums and 2 lights is decent combination. Against Clam 4xStreakcrow patrol you just have to bring your srm griffins or other heavy hitter mediums.

At least this is my feelings after couple of games.

#36 InspectorG

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:19 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 19 April 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

Kill 3 mechs, leg the last one.

Collect rewards, snore.


BORING!!! And unimaginative!

LEG ALL 4, walk away with intel. Trollololololoooooo.

#37 TLBFestus

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:31 PM

You nailed it when you said that the gameplay is shallow, Alistair.

It is basically "kill mechs" and that can be done on any mode in this game.

The only twist, and I saw this coming after reading about it, is it might be called, "leg mechs" instead of killing them all. Leave one or two limping about whilst the rest of your squad collects as many intel points as possible is probably how you will see the game played.

#38 Wintersdark

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:51 PM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 19 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

I mean, there are ways to kind of fix this, I guess. You could do things to force people to spread out and cap more. But would that really be fun for MWO? The game is so shallow, it's basically designed around deathmatches. Making people spread out to hunt for easter eggs on huge maps may not be terribly exciting.

So maybe PGI didn't fail. Maybe Russ wanted another "just brawl bro" game mode and it is working as intended. And the whole intel beacon aspect is just a little razzledazzle for Faction warfare scoring, makes it easier to determine when the 12v12 matches get satelite sweeps, long toms, etc.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this is exactly what they wanted.

Or they wanted something else, but couldn't come up with a design that really worked. Don't kid yourselves, given how MWO plays, it's hard to add truly objective based game modes that aren't going to be easily solved by just smashing the other robots.

This isn't something that's easy to fix.


So, given that, maybe it's just:

PGI settled with another game mode that, while fundamentally skirmish, has a bunch of New Shinies and if nothing else will tend to play out differently than other game modes (even if still basically skirmish), but that focuses ONLY on lights and mediums, so ideally some of those lesser used chassis can stretch their legs a bit.

Now, I understand that at more competitive levels, the list of "viable" chassis is going to get small, but that's inevitable. At least it's a mode where Lights and Mediums can play on a Light and Medium only field.

So, yeah, I don't necessarily think it's what they *wanted*, but rather still what they intended.

#39 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 10:04 PM

in lore, the ideal "Scout" lance would be 3 lights, 2 speedy lights, 1 "heavy" light, and a fast or heavy medium, depending. The "heavy" light and medium provides the firepower to help protect the two lighter "Scouting" mechs. Which those scouting mechs can draw the enemy back towards the slower moving, higher firepower mechs. Idealy.

#40 PoorDecisions

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 10:17 PM

I've played several matches, but they've all been as IS against IS so I haven't seen the stormcrow cheese. I've had a good time in all of the 4v4 matches I've played, including the losses.





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