71 replies to this topic

[G SE7EN7]

Reduce weight to 50t mechs...done

[Talorien]

Wintersdark, on 19 April 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

Or they wanted something else, but couldn't come up with a design that really worked. Don't kid yourselves, given how MWO plays, it's hard to add truly objective based game modes that aren't going to be easily solved by just smashing the other robots.

This isn't something that's easy to fix.

1) Gauntlet - attacker has to run past defender and exit map

2) Fighting withdrawal - defender has to exit map while holding off attackers

[Kanil]

I'd like to see a buff to the name of the mode.

Right now puggies are like "Oh, 'Scouting'? I should probably bring a scout 'mech, I think I have a Spider around here somewhere..."

Instead, I'd like them to be more like "Gee, I probably shouldn't bring my Locust to 'Medium 'Mech Thunderdome', that doesn't seem like a good plan. Where's my Griffin..."

[Shard Phoenix]

I played between 10-15 "Scouting" matches today and I'm not really sold on it for the same reasons others have mentioned in the thread. It's just another version of deathmatch.

[Horace83]

G SE7EN7, on 19 April 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

Reduce weight to 50t mechs...done

Tweeted that to Russ after getting stomped by Streakcrows as a Solo Player until 1am. I already said it in the other thread: As a solo player you have no chance beating SSRM-Crow teams. You have to bring a Deck with Griffins, AC20 Hunchies and maybe an Oxide. I already bought Mechbays for the Griffins...

[Exard3k]

I like it. Small teams, higher TTK, tactical gameplay. Enjoying Scoutmode right now, will buy more light/medium mechs in the future instead of heavies.

[Silas7]

Played a few matches and I'm still developing my decision but so far it's not looking good.

[TexAce]

Alistair Winter, on 19 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

I mean, there are ways to kind of fix this, I guess. You could do things to force people to spread out and cap more. But would that really be fun for MWO? The game is so shallow, it's basically designed around deathmatches. Making people spread out to hunt for easter eggs on huge maps may not be terribly exciting.

So maybe PGI didn't fail. Maybe Russ wanted another "just brawl bro" game mode and it is working as intended. And the whole intel beacon aspect is just a little razzledazzle for Faction warfare scoring, makes it easier to determine when the 12v12 matches get satelite sweeps, long toms, etc.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this is exactly what they wanted.

If killing mechs is same-old same-old and scouting is boring for you, what the hell you do want from a mechwarrior game then? A train simulator? A farm simulator? A nascar simulator?

[DrnkJawa]

Silas7, on 20 April 2016 - 01:23 AM, said:

Played a few matches and I'm still developing my decision but so far it's not looking good.

Did you buy a Griffin-2N yet?

[aaykeem]

TexAce, on 20 April 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

If killing mechs is same-old same-old and scouting is boring for you, what the hell you do want from a mechwarrior game then? A train simulator? A farm simulator? A nascar simulator?

That's exactly my reaction to this thread.

They can (and most certainly will) play around with the win conditions to balance the game mode out. I have no doubt the forum is filled with expert game designers with jaw-dropping portfolios, but let's give PGI some time to gather data and tweak things.

That being said, if killing mechs is boring and you think all game modes are skirmish at base, what are you still doing playing this game?

Edited by aaykeem, 20 April 2016 - 01:48 AM.

[Wintersdark]

G SE7EN7, on 19 April 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

Reduce weight to 50t mechs...done

what does this accomplish? You lose streak crows, but there'll still be mass-streak boats.

Talorien, on 19 April 2016 - 10:35 PM, said:

1) Gauntlet - attacker has to run past defender and exit map

2) Fighting withdrawal - defender has to exit map while holding off attackers

How aren't these Skirmish? Or just Domination with the cap point on the edge of the map? These are as much Skirmish as every other mode, where just killing your opposition is a simpler win condition. Exactly like this mode. You can race around gathering Intel, or you can just kill them then take it at your leisure.

[maniacos]

jss78, on 19 April 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

It does seem to revert back to skirmish. But I'll say that light-and-medium 4-vs-4 skirmish is a ton of fun. So even at worst case it does offer considerable variety from the other game modes.

Caveat: I didn't play against clans. IS vs IS you seem to get decent mech variety. The already-mentioned Griffin is quite popular, also lots of Cicadas and a refreshing number of Shadow Hawks.

In ISvIS we had no problems to hunt and kill a GRF with other IS meds, however faster lights have an advantage in collecting the points and reaching the dropship in time. Playing against equally skilled IS teams was well balanced with a 50/50 win lose chance, when the mech selection is decent. It also makes it more interesting when you have a varity of mechs to select - and all the mechs I like most in that game are an option, Cicadas, Ravens, Jenners, Blackjacks, Craps, even maybe Firestarters. Against Clans you have suddenly much less possibilities and are most likely forced to bring your medium damage dealers and still have the disadvantage of your XL engine.

Edited by maniacos, 20 April 2016 - 02:56 AM.

[maniacos]

G SE7EN7, on 19 April 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

Reduce weight to 50t mechs...done

I don't think that only reducing tonage would make it more intense gameplay since Clans have a less varity on lights that are an option. The Adder, the Kitfox, the Myst or light meds like Ice Ferret are way to underrated compared to Jenner or Cheeta. I hardly see them in 12v12 FP and yet have to encounter one of them on 4v4.

Edited by maniacos, 20 April 2016 - 03:07 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

G SE7EN7, on 19 April 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

Reduce weight to 50t mechs...done

It's not a terrible idea. I guess Clans would switch to ACHs and IS would switch to Hunchbacks and Blackjacks, maybe?

Could be interesting.

[aaykeem]

There are also two other aspects to take into account regarding making a hard decision right now:
- the people playing this past 1/2 day since the patch landed were most likely the more active part of the player base. And most likely the more experienced part of the player base. After all unit leaders come online and select their units' alignment and the population gets back to a stable mix of different skill levels, you'll see people running all sorts of builds.
- the streak/SRM boat is king atm, but there are counters. Once the entire player base gets a feel of what works, what doesn't, how to better play the objective, again, we'll see a shift in builds being played

[Reptilizer]

Exard3k, on 20 April 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

I like it. Small teams, higher TTK, tactical gameplay. Enjoying Scoutmode right now, will buy more light/medium mechs in the future instead of heavies.

"Tactical gameplay" o.O
Really?
I was stuck in knife fight brawl mode last night, no tactics at all.
Which mode did you play?

aaykeem, on 20 April 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

There are also two other aspects to take into account regarding making a hard decision right now:
- the people playing this past 1/2 day since the patch landed were most likely the more active part of the player base. And most likely the more experienced part of the player base. After all unit leaders come online and select their units' alignment and the population gets back to a stable mix of different skill levels, you'll see people running all sorts of builds.
- the streak/SRM boat is king atm, but there are counters. Once the entire player base gets a feel of what works, what doesn't, how to better play the objective, again, we'll see a shift in builds being played

This is it. If there was a better way to play the objective, we would not have this discussion.
Alas, as of now there is no real objective and also just one set of tactics that fits all sizes.

Clan crows do what clan crows always do:
Let the attackers collect all they want, you just have to manhunt them all down. Move as a pack, seek the engagement. IF they can avoid your 100+ kph crow team till the ship comes, they are probably lights and you eat them alive even with the dropship firing.
Let the defenders do whatever they like. You move as a pack and collect intel. If you encounter the defenders, you go for the kill. If not, you escape with the dropship. You NEVER split up and you NEVER run, because there is no incentive for doing so.
No variation in tactics at all.

[ShinobiHunter]

Sorry if it was explained somewhere else and I missed it, but what is the point of this game mode? Are you racing to collect more Intel than the other team? Do the defenders need to collect intel? I can't find this information anywhere, and I haven't had enough time to figure it out myself...

[DarklightCA]

TLBFestus, on 19 April 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

You nailed it when you said that the gameplay is shallow, Alistair.

It is basically "kill mechs" and that can be done on any mode in this game.

The only twist, and I saw this coming after reading about it, is it might be called, "leg mechs" instead of killing them all. Leave one or two limping about whilst the rest of your squad collects as many intel points as possible is probably how you will see the game played.

You are incorrect, there is a lot more you can do in it besides killing. You can get 4 lights, split up and cap and than go straight into the drop zone without firing a single shot. You can kill 3 mechs, leg the 4th than go for all caps and of course you can go scout them and kill them as well. There is a lot more you can do than the 12 vs 12 mode which leaves you with the only options of skirmishing or being one of those gen rushing people that gets beat down badly by actual teams.

Edited by DarklightCA, 20 April 2016 - 05:14 AM.

[Livewyr]

I think it'll be a pretty simple fix to change the tonnage down to 35...

IS is still going to have to be clever to kill SkillJenners instead of Skillcrows.

[ice trey]

On paper, the match sounds heavily in favor of the recon unit rather than the counter unit. All you have to do is evac one 'mech, and the dropship is armed to the teeth with Large Lasers with perfect aim.

Is it really difficult? Don't know. I don't have a unit, and the faction TS was pretty quiet, with the only players online being the ones that never turn off teamspeak. What I can say is that the pugs sure as hell don't RTFM before dropping. I got pissed off mostly at how dumb the players were being. I'll come back when they RTFM and/or when players show up in TS to make groups with.

On the other hand. 4V4 match mode? Much better idea. Faster match making. Everyone's cuing up for the scouting missions. Whether for match making speed or just plain old novelty of a new match type. Bad idea? Making a tonnage limit for recon rather than a minimum speed limit. Streak Crows might think twice when dealing with fast heavies or assaults like 400XL battlemasters. Some matches saw pugs bringing mechs like the Hunchback moving under 80 kph for recon jobs. Maybe the players are just not smart enough to understand "Recon", and that's why all the pub cue modes are repackaged deathmatch modes.