Speedkermit, on 28 April 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:
PGI tried too hard to stick as close as possible to Battletech lore
Don't make me laugh!
9
Why So Few Playing Faction Warfare
Started by SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX, Apr 20 2016 09:36 AM
Gameplay Mode
188 replies to this topic
#101
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- Bad Company
- 22,783 posts
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Posted 28 April 2016 - 08:15 AM
Don't make me laugh!
#102
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- Bad Company
- 93 posts
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- LocationMexico
Posted 28 April 2016 - 08:39 AM
FW Invasion mode right now is just not that fun.
The faster devs accept it, the better. An infernal wait to queue in too many factions with too many planets and too few people to fill them, only to be dropped in big *** and frankly ugly canyon maps with enforced chokepoints kills any creativity you could have with surrounding. Every match is attack rush and defending camp with high alphas, preferably lots of lasers pointing at a single entrance. lots of walking and few actual action. No variety in gameplay.
Quick match maps and modes are pretty fun. If they were 4drop they would be pretty cool and hectic. Also faster.
I mean when you think about it, FW wants to feel like a military campaign with positioning and execution, that's why the maps are big, but still nothing warrants trying new things since the best build for a team are pinpoint damage mechs and few chassis perform well in this matter.
4vs4 scouting mode IS pretty fun, but only because it's a 4vs4, not because the objective is interesting. There's a meta game to evolve in high level play in scouting mode, but it's just not that well designed to warrant the audience's attention to it, more so in the bigger maps.
The weapons, logistic options and features of the game are still barebones to advanced gameplay and only work in Quickmatch because they're basically an arena style of shooting. When you try to implement more advanced objectives it becomes obvious they're not enough.
No repair trucks or bays/refueling systems in FW for example, make some mechs completely unusable after their payload is used. This obviously never will happen with energy based mechs, who can fight and camp all day every day. People obviously will pick the Black Knight to the end of the world. No clever outposts to capture and monitor advances of the enemy. No real usefulness for lights in FW maps. No alternative ways of winning a match but to rush through the trenches in waves. NO NEW WEAPONS. No alternative of defending /attacking with NPC tanks or defense points or aircraft that could cost CBills making the War Economy WORTH SOMETHING FOR WAR.
Simply put, the game has never been ready for the Faction Warfare mode at its core. It's a good arena shooter, and it was designed at the beginning to be that with the promise of something more but it's not going to get there.
I loved the game and came late to the party actually, but now i understand the mountains of salt around here. Most of these are simple things and concepts and seems it's never going to get implemented.
The faster devs accept it, the better. An infernal wait to queue in too many factions with too many planets and too few people to fill them, only to be dropped in big *** and frankly ugly canyon maps with enforced chokepoints kills any creativity you could have with surrounding. Every match is attack rush and defending camp with high alphas, preferably lots of lasers pointing at a single entrance. lots of walking and few actual action. No variety in gameplay.
Quick match maps and modes are pretty fun. If they were 4drop they would be pretty cool and hectic. Also faster.
I mean when you think about it, FW wants to feel like a military campaign with positioning and execution, that's why the maps are big, but still nothing warrants trying new things since the best build for a team are pinpoint damage mechs and few chassis perform well in this matter.
4vs4 scouting mode IS pretty fun, but only because it's a 4vs4, not because the objective is interesting. There's a meta game to evolve in high level play in scouting mode, but it's just not that well designed to warrant the audience's attention to it, more so in the bigger maps.
The weapons, logistic options and features of the game are still barebones to advanced gameplay and only work in Quickmatch because they're basically an arena style of shooting. When you try to implement more advanced objectives it becomes obvious they're not enough.
No repair trucks or bays/refueling systems in FW for example, make some mechs completely unusable after their payload is used. This obviously never will happen with energy based mechs, who can fight and camp all day every day. People obviously will pick the Black Knight to the end of the world. No clever outposts to capture and monitor advances of the enemy. No real usefulness for lights in FW maps. No alternative ways of winning a match but to rush through the trenches in waves. NO NEW WEAPONS. No alternative of defending /attacking with NPC tanks or defense points or aircraft that could cost CBills making the War Economy WORTH SOMETHING FOR WAR.
Simply put, the game has never been ready for the Faction Warfare mode at its core. It's a good arena shooter, and it was designed at the beginning to be that with the promise of something more but it's not going to get there.
I loved the game and came late to the party actually, but now i understand the mountains of salt around here. Most of these are simple things and concepts and seems it's never going to get implemented.
#103
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- FP Veteran - Beta 1
- 2,726 posts
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- LocationUSA
Posted 28 April 2016 - 08:55 AM
FW Invasion mode right now is just not that fun.
The faster devs accept it, the better. An infernal wait to queue in too many factions with too many planets and too few people to fill them, only to be dropped in big *** and frankly ugly canyon maps with enforced chokepoints kills any creativity you could have with surrounding. Every match is attack rush and defending camp with high alphas, preferably lots of lasers pointing at a single entrance. lots of walking and few actual action. No variety in gameplay.
Quick match maps and modes are pretty fun. If they were 4drop they would be pretty cool and hectic. Also faster.
I mean when you think about it, FW wants to feel like a military campaign with positioning and execution, that's why the maps are big, but still nothing warrants trying new things since the best build for a team are pinpoint damage mechs and few chassis perform well in this matter.
4vs4 scouting mode IS pretty fun, but only because it's a 4vs4, not because the objective is interesting. There's a meta game to evolve in high level play in scouting mode, but it's just not that well designed to warrant the audience's attention to it, more so in the bigger maps.
The weapons, logistic options and features of the game are still barebones to advanced gameplay and only work in Quickmatch because they're basically an arena style of shooting. When you try to implement more advanced objectives it becomes obvious they're not enough.
No repair trucks or bays/refueling systems in FW for example, make some mechs completely unusable after their payload is used. This obviously never will happen with energy based mechs, who can fight and camp all day every day. People obviously will pick the Black Knight to the end of the world. No clever outposts to capture and monitor advances of the enemy. No real usefulness for lights in FW maps. No alternative ways of winning a match but to rush through the trenches in waves. NO NEW WEAPONS. No alternative of defending /attacking with NPC tanks or defense points or aircraft that could cost CBills making the War Economy WORTH SOMETHING FOR WAR.
Simply put, the game has never been ready for the Faction Warfare mode at its core. It's a good arena shooter, and it was designed at the beginning to be that with the promise of something more but it's not going to get there.
I loved the game and came late to the party actually, but now i understand the mountains of salt around here. Most of these are simple things and concepts and seems it's never going to get implemented.
===============================================================================================
I could fix all this and more in 6 months hard work I wonder if they would sell MWO to me?
============================================================================================
Back when MWO was in early design phase we tried to tell Russ and Brian the mechs are was too overpowered alpha boats with not much defensive ability's so when playing MWO'S shallow Solaris style game modes all 1 of them in reality yo have nothing to lose by doing a death ball.
If MWO were based more on the skill of the pilot where every weapon a mech could carry was important to survival and a win and to the teams success in winning battles as in a Stock game mode play or a more defensive goal orientated style MWO=alpha warrior online would never have happened in MWO.
Just think how fun the game play would be slowed down a little with no Alpha strike mechanism in the game mechs were 10 times tougher and you knew on your Hunchback if you made a mistake and lost your AC20 it could cost you the match and your teams confidence in your ability's?
That's the way MechWarrior used to be played On the MSN Gamming Zone and in game servers in private Leagues it was the way MechWarrior was always meant to be played not same same battles over and over again in monotonous boring grind filled gameplay like MWO is.
The faster devs accept it, the better. An infernal wait to queue in too many factions with too many planets and too few people to fill them, only to be dropped in big *** and frankly ugly canyon maps with enforced chokepoints kills any creativity you could have with surrounding. Every match is attack rush and defending camp with high alphas, preferably lots of lasers pointing at a single entrance. lots of walking and few actual action. No variety in gameplay.
Quick match maps and modes are pretty fun. If they were 4drop they would be pretty cool and hectic. Also faster.
I mean when you think about it, FW wants to feel like a military campaign with positioning and execution, that's why the maps are big, but still nothing warrants trying new things since the best build for a team are pinpoint damage mechs and few chassis perform well in this matter.
4vs4 scouting mode IS pretty fun, but only because it's a 4vs4, not because the objective is interesting. There's a meta game to evolve in high level play in scouting mode, but it's just not that well designed to warrant the audience's attention to it, more so in the bigger maps.
The weapons, logistic options and features of the game are still barebones to advanced gameplay and only work in Quickmatch because they're basically an arena style of shooting. When you try to implement more advanced objectives it becomes obvious they're not enough.
No repair trucks or bays/refueling systems in FW for example, make some mechs completely unusable after their payload is used. This obviously never will happen with energy based mechs, who can fight and camp all day every day. People obviously will pick the Black Knight to the end of the world. No clever outposts to capture and monitor advances of the enemy. No real usefulness for lights in FW maps. No alternative ways of winning a match but to rush through the trenches in waves. NO NEW WEAPONS. No alternative of defending /attacking with NPC tanks or defense points or aircraft that could cost CBills making the War Economy WORTH SOMETHING FOR WAR.
Simply put, the game has never been ready for the Faction Warfare mode at its core. It's a good arena shooter, and it was designed at the beginning to be that with the promise of something more but it's not going to get there.
I loved the game and came late to the party actually, but now i understand the mountains of salt around here. Most of these are simple things and concepts and seems it's never going to get implemented.
===============================================================================================
I could fix all this and more in 6 months hard work I wonder if they would sell MWO to me?
============================================================================================
Back when MWO was in early design phase we tried to tell Russ and Brian the mechs are was too overpowered alpha boats with not much defensive ability's so when playing MWO'S shallow Solaris style game modes all 1 of them in reality yo have nothing to lose by doing a death ball.
If MWO were based more on the skill of the pilot where every weapon a mech could carry was important to survival and a win and to the teams success in winning battles as in a Stock game mode play or a more defensive goal orientated style MWO=alpha warrior online would never have happened in MWO.
Just think how fun the game play would be slowed down a little with no Alpha strike mechanism in the game mechs were 10 times tougher and you knew on your Hunchback if you made a mistake and lost your AC20 it could cost you the match and your teams confidence in your ability's?
That's the way MechWarrior used to be played On the MSN Gamming Zone and in game servers in private Leagues it was the way MechWarrior was always meant to be played not same same battles over and over again in monotonous boring grind filled gameplay like MWO is.
Edited by KingCobra, 28 April 2016 - 08:56 AM.
#104
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- Bad Company
- 93 posts
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- LocationMexico
Posted 28 April 2016 - 09:31 AM
The game is a solid pick in QM but what you say is true. I do think the overall TTK is too low to really make a difference if you lose a system due to a critical hit, planning to aim specifically to some body part and the such. MAYBE amping just a little bit the health of the mechs to make the trades and blows more interesting 1vs1 ( i mean getting focused by 5vs1 isn't going to make much of a difference in any game)
And to add on it, there are no true defense systems in the game. In MW4 there was reflective coating that absorbed a % of energy based damage and such. Could have tradeoffs. Things like that broaden the build possibilites and options.
And to add on it, there are no true defense systems in the game. In MW4 there was reflective coating that absorbed a % of energy based damage and such. Could have tradeoffs. Things like that broaden the build possibilites and options.
#105
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- Survivor
- 1,698 posts
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Posted 28 April 2016 - 09:46 AM
Speedkermit, on 28 April 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:
PGI tried too hard to stick as close as possible to Battletech lore as possible to please the grognards. As a result we're stuck with an unfun and unbalanced CW game-mode that no-one is happy with.
Are you kidding? I just had a good laugh about this.PGO threw lore out of the window long ago.
at topic: CW is simply broken and not fun. It is a game mode based on wrong design assumptions and ideas.
#106
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- The 1 Percent
- 746 posts
Member
Posted 28 April 2016 - 10:46 AM
FP as it is equals longer death matchs, same as in quick play, wait times are so long that going in quick play is better CBills and rewards are so little in FP that even why bother ? Players can blame it on too many this, not enough that as much as they want real issue is by design and integration in the game is flawed since the beginning.
#107
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- Philanthropist
- 1,721 posts
Member
Posted 28 April 2016 - 10:52 AM
The reason no one plays is that no one plays. Designing a multilayered, player-driven queue system was a terrible idea. It should have been one quick-play button.
Anyway the main reason I'm not playing is that I don't want to waste my time if I'm just going to quit when they combine the queues anyway.
Anyway the main reason I'm not playing is that I don't want to waste my time if I'm just going to quit when they combine the queues anyway.
#108
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- Legendary Founder
- 6,733 posts
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- LocationWisconsin, USA
Posted 28 April 2016 - 11:44 AM
Well, I can't speak for anyone, but here's a series of reasons I suspect people don't play FW. (Many of them, my own as well.)
1: Poor gameplay. (TTK way too low, combat system too binary.)
2: More than a year as a glorified quickplay.
3: Randomized results. What group/unit wants to go burn an evening working on a planet to either not get it because randoms are reversing results, or not have their name anywhere because they didn't have enough bodies to throw at it.
4: No incentive. (well, 1.33 years later we get trickles of MC if we managed to spam the planet with enough bodies.)
5: No diplomacy. (The game outside of the game, that which makes it COMMUNITY WARFARE, instead of just another bloody queue.)
This one gets its own:
Low population. They screwed the pooch from start of the overall design. December 2014, when it started, population was amazing. (New thing, map, etc...) and then... because that was the extent of the content... (no diplomacy, no control, no community manipulation) it got old. Quickly.
Low population: Higher queue times, or no games at all.
Faction Warfare is a dead duck. (Even the vaunted "Phase III" is a desperate gasp that fell flat.)
Foundation Failure 1: Fundamental gameplay flaws; precision, Low TTK, etc...
Foundation Failure 2: "Community Warfare" only involved the community as bodies filling it's little algorithm machine.
1: Poor gameplay. (TTK way too low, combat system too binary.)
2: More than a year as a glorified quickplay.
3: Randomized results. What group/unit wants to go burn an evening working on a planet to either not get it because randoms are reversing results, or not have their name anywhere because they didn't have enough bodies to throw at it.
4: No incentive. (well, 1.33 years later we get trickles of MC if we managed to spam the planet with enough bodies.)
5: No diplomacy. (The game outside of the game, that which makes it COMMUNITY WARFARE, instead of just another bloody queue.)
This one gets its own:
Low population. They screwed the pooch from start of the overall design. December 2014, when it started, population was amazing. (New thing, map, etc...) and then... because that was the extent of the content... (no diplomacy, no control, no community manipulation) it got old. Quickly.
Low population: Higher queue times, or no games at all.
Faction Warfare is a dead duck. (Even the vaunted "Phase III" is a desperate gasp that fell flat.)
Foundation Failure 1: Fundamental gameplay flaws; precision, Low TTK, etc...
Foundation Failure 2: "Community Warfare" only involved the community as bodies filling it's little algorithm machine.
#109
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- The Defiant
- 455 posts
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- LocationSomewhere between the State of Confusion and the State of Insanity.
Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:32 PM
TheLuc, on 27 April 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:
Do you realize those point of views hurts the game and wont attract new players to fill up that almost empty space that is FP, that elitist way of thinking doesn't generate money for the game and not being able to explore all the facets of MWO which are already so few limits any potential for growth.
I assure you that the point of view is not one I have or share. From my perspective I am stating facts as I see them based on observation in the forums (here and on Steam) as well as on Twitter.
#110
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- Bad Company
- 89 posts
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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:37 PM
IS Houses: I propose we all drop in 3025-stock mechs in a 1-1-1-1 formation this weekend and see if we can't wring some fun out of it.
#111
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- Philanthropist
- 4,833 posts
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Posted 28 April 2016 - 05:49 PM
SilentWolff, on 20 April 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:
The problem is, its too late. This content should of been added long ago when they actually promised it.
Exactly. Community Warfare was a total disaster upon launch. Nothing but two maps, both poorly designed (and that frozen shooting lane one is one of the worst maps I've ever seen), and endless seal-clubbing. Games took forever to find, the drop-deck mech selection system was horribly bugged, and most matches were decided upon pairings (12-man vs. a pile of PUG's) - but you'd still have to waste a half hour or so playing the idiocy out.
After leaving CW festering for well over a year - and, no, adding new maps to a broken and un-fun game mode does not count as fixing it - they finally get around to trying all the Faction Warfare phase 3 changes, but it is way too little, too late. People got tired of long waits, bugs, having their faces kicked in by big teams, and then being told repeatedly, all over the forums, how they should be THANKFUL for the opportunity to have their faces kicked in. And if they don't like it, they should clearly "git gud" and take up playing MWO as a side career.
Many of us warned them that this would happen - that a stagnant game mode based on shooting people in obvious lanes and clubbing seals would kill CW - and we even said that once people were turned away from it, they probably wouldn't come back. Surprise, surprise - that's exactly what's happened.
#112
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- Philanthropist
- 4,833 posts
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Posted 28 April 2016 - 05:56 PM
Mystere, on 28 April 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:
Don't make me laugh!
Sad, but true. The irony is that they took the time to follow Lore and stick every piddly little planet on the map, and yet at the same time brilliantly managed to make every planet basically the same?! They even managed to leave off any useful information about each planet - last I checked, they were all N/A
And how about the lore in the game about each Battlemech? Oh, wait... nevermind...
#113
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- Philanthropist
- 73 posts
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- LocationLos Angeles
Posted 29 April 2016 - 08:35 AM
So ... some say that Battle Tech is a rip off of the Star War's story line ..... which was a rip off of the Wizard of Oz storyline .... ?
Luke = Dorothy
Luke = Dorothy
#114
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- Bridesmaid
- 53 posts
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Posted 29 April 2016 - 10:18 AM
Honestly, what game content was really added that changed FW? It was mostly new menu screens and a new faction reward path (mercenary) but not much that changes gameplay itself. Sure, there is now 4v4 scouting mode but nothing is different in the invasion mode... if you were tired of playing it before, the 3 scouting affects that were (conditionally) added don't change the gameplay in a way that makes it fresh.
#115
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- Legendary Founder
- 130 posts
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Posted 29 April 2016 - 10:47 AM
I wrote an excessively long, needlessly detailed, and slightly confusing post about my vision of FW...
http://mwomercs.com/...-warfare-ideas/
I just thought it was more productive to make suggestions on how to fix it, rather than complaining about it.
But pretty much everyone here has more experience in FW than I do, I'm really interested in seeing suggestions from other people.
http://mwomercs.com/...-warfare-ideas/
I just thought it was more productive to make suggestions on how to fix it, rather than complaining about it.
But pretty much everyone here has more experience in FW than I do, I'm really interested in seeing suggestions from other people.
#116
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- Legendary Founder
- 130 posts
Member
Posted 29 April 2016 - 11:00 AM
Also:
https://en.wikipedia...Hidden_Fortress
Darth Vader's armor is Samurai armor, with some lights and tubes added. Lightsabers only exist so that Vader can be a Samurai.
illudium Q 36, on 29 April 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:
So ... some say that Battle Tech is a rip off of the Star War's story line ..... which was a rip off of the Wizard of Oz storyline .... ?
https://en.wikipedia...Hidden_Fortress
Darth Vader's armor is Samurai armor, with some lights and tubes added. Lightsabers only exist so that Vader can be a Samurai.
Edited by Elendil, 29 April 2016 - 11:02 AM.
#117
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- 175 posts
Member
Posted 29 April 2016 - 11:10 AM
Piddles, on 29 April 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:
Honestly, what game content was really added that changed FW? It was mostly new menu screens and a new faction reward path (mercenary) but not much that changes gameplay itself. Sure, there is now 4v4 scouting mode but nothing is different in the invasion mode... if you were tired of playing it before, the 3 scouting affects that were (conditionally) added don't change the gameplay in a way that makes it fresh.
But but! The whole company worked hard(ly?) on it for well over a year!!
#118
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- The Slayer
- 399 posts
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Posted 29 April 2016 - 11:11 AM
shr84, on 20 April 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:
with the arrival of FW phase 3 i expected a huge gain of players.
But looking at the players per planet it is like it was before, 12-40 players on each side max.
I think they added a good amount of content and reworked the whole thing, making
it more exciting to partissipate.
So why you not taking part with the action?
Woud love to know that.
But looking at the players per planet it is like it was before, 12-40 players on each side max.
I think they added a good amount of content and reworked the whole thing, making
it more exciting to partissipate.
So why you not taking part with the action?
Woud love to know that.
1st) freelance=crap rewards=no incentive to play.
2nd) merc mode=pug bash painted a diff color
3rd) 12 man organised teams=only the oprganised teams want to play these=1-2% of the community
4th) solo layalist=best feture..and russ has removed it so you can say buh-bye to all the players that wanted to give this a try..good job russ ..if fail is the new win..you would be an olympien.
5th) 4v4 scouting que is the only thing left and you wont get any MC for it..so why help the 12 man orgy teams so they can get the MC? when its the 12 man orgy teams that have broken FW for all.
By removing the solo loyalist que after only 1 WEEK of trials..russ has reverted the FW game mode back to its broken state it was in before,,Except the new diff is instead of 12 man orgy teams pug bashing they are now being paid MC to do it...PGI brain storming at its finest lol.
To see such a diamond in the rough knowing it will never reach a fraction of its potential is pretty sad for all the die hard fans out there.
.ive been playing since early CB and ever since PGI took over ive slowly watched it spiral down hill ever since
The simple fact of the matter is that PGI is in over its head..and simply doesnt have the leadership or talent to make this game great.The sooner PGI sells this to a better company (which shouldnt be hard to find) the better off this comunity and the product will be.
P.S. the sooner PGI wakes up and relises its the 12 man orgy teams breaking FW for all the better off the other 98% of the player base will be
Edited by SplashDown, 29 April 2016 - 11:24 AM.
#119
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- Overlord
- 3,972 posts
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- LocationSolaris VII
Posted 29 April 2016 - 11:37 AM
SilentWolff, on 20 April 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:
Its a shame too. I know at least 100 people that got tired of playing nothing but team deathmatch and they aint coming back.
I am pretty sure they would have been tired none the less if CW came or not.
Banditman, on 20 April 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:
Keep in mind you are not seeing both queues. If you are a Freelancer, you aren't seeing the unit queue. If you are in a unit, you aren't seeing the Freelancer queue. GJ PGI on further segmenting your community.
I am pretty sure it's for the best. A lot of people I know that exclusively avoided CW due to the 12 man pug stomps are now playing CW more regularly.
#120
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- Overlord
- 43 posts
Member
Posted 29 April 2016 - 12:35 PM
FW is basically; whoever brings the most LPL and MPL to the match and can vomit them on-target en-masse
boring as *redacted*
boring as *redacted*
Edited by The Driver, 29 April 2016 - 12:35 PM.
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