88 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 20 April 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

This is a scale picture that somebody made to illustrate the current power of the Long Tom.

"somebody"

[Chef Kerensky]

Scout Derek, on 20 April 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

Why? Because people can't put in extra time and work to get that bonus in the long run?

Is Polar Highlands Cancer too? Is it? Because it's something new players have to learn?

I'm just asking, not angry or anything, rather curious as to why, because if people can't figure out how to spread out to devalue the use of Long Tom, then they need to learn by reading the notes. I mean the enemy team even gets the timer when the Long Tom is coming.

Polar Highlands is cancer because it's far bigger and emptier than it needs to be

This isn't Arma 3. You don't need recon teams. This is an arena shooter and unless the very fundamentals of the game's core are completely overhauled, you can't change that just by making the maps bigger.

[PrepareAngus]

As for my opinion they just should made at least simple blast wave simulation so you could possibly avoid it being behind the structure or in a trench, at least being in cover should reduce the damage. For now the explosion mechanics seems not that realistic and it is just like instadeath. I think this is the main reason of people complaining about it, because for now it looks like somebody at the enemy side just typed "/kill a,b,c"

The simpliest way to realize it is to spawn few dozens of heavy projectiles like AC20 or something heavier at the explosion center flying in random directions. This might be CPU/GPU intensive thing but worth trying. Maybe just with a tiny delay in some milliseconds between spawning the packs of projectiles will smooth it.

This mechanic possibly will make another problem that everyone who sees the smoke just run away under the cover to become invulnerable, so the one big explosion must be divided to series of them just like the normal artillery barrage works, or just the strike marker can be removed.

In real life MLRS systems or just tactical ballistic missiles contain thousands of so-called "prepared fragments" so the main damage made by them to armored vehicles is not just thermobaric or explosive but just plain oldschool armor-piercing action, it's just a heavy shrapnel or something similar like metallic rods.
Traditional barrel artillery shown to be inferior even nowdays - for example, 155mm artillery shoots for about 25km max and 300mm MLRS can shoot up to 70+. Single tactical missiles even better.
There is also some kind of reactive hybrid shells with extended range.

Sadly I couldn't really find any detailed information about Long Tom in tabletop. 5 shells per ton or 250kg... 155mm shell weights approximately 50kg. Soviet 420mm 2B1 "Oka" shells were about ~600 kg, 2C7 200mm ~130kg
So it could be something in between just like 300mm
And yeah, theoretically some nice 300mm barrage can cause such destruction and even in the bigger range (12x300mm MLRS shots can cause damage to 60 hectares area). But only if we're talking about the group fire and not single projectile.

Of course there is no point comparing fictional universe mechanics with real life.
Some things are really-really underpowered in the mechwarrior universe compared even to actual warfare and technology

p.s. damn, sorry for raising it, haven't seen another related topic and never posted here before

Edited by PrepareAngus, 29 April 2016 - 05:16 PM.

[Seal Farmer]

Long Tom is just bad, it should be removed completely

People just dont play on maps where Long Toms are present because its a crappy mechanic to insta kill whole teams.

[B0oN]

I like how mister Long works for me, irregardless if my team was scouting or not .

If people can´t bunch up proper they are dead.
If people can´t spread out proper they are also dead .

Failing to see what the problem with LongTom is, since the 2 above stated things are a standard in MW:O, just need them executed lightning fast under LT fire .
It also helps to have 2-3 good lights that pose a faux "mob" for mister Long to fire at .

Adapt.Overcome.Succeed.

#caseclosedrestingdefenseyourhonour

[p0rtal00]

Scout Derek, on 20 April 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

Skip to 2:09. Lol.


To be honest, if one allows them the Scouting, then it's your fault. With this in mind, know that Long Tom is not OP....



But Scouting is OP if you allow it to be.

Good luck and hope this helps you figure out how to counter that "OP" Long Tom.

long tom is op when every map in fw is designed to funnel players through a tiny area.
long tom is op when every mech in the area is one shot killed.

[Totenxcx]

Decided to try the new cw today and do the challenge if its any good now.

Nope. This is actually worse than before. the basic gameplay remains unchanged except now you have this huge field of death dropping every 2 minutes. It's so damn huge that if you're in it's radius when it activates you might as well take it like a man cause you sure ain't running out of that infinite plane of destruction.

It has become evident now, more than ever, that pgi makes changes to the game without thinking it through for even a second. And that then begs the question why those changes take so long anyway?

[Zoid]

I thought this was all just crying until I actually played with them. They are simply silly in their current format. The best counter to them, as I ran into last night, is to bring a pile of lights and get the Long Toms to destroy the other team too. We had them and the other side just kept spamming light waves, ended up 48-30 with only 18 kills on their side (so OUR OWN Long Toms killed 12 of us).

I don't think this is a good thing at all. Either you fight normally at a tremendous disadvantage or you cheese it and try to get the artillery to kill the other team too. They need a change.

[Gorgo7]

Love the LT.
Love working towards it in the four mans. The four mans have really revitalized FW for me.
Take away the LT and the four mans is not as much fun any more. The twelve mans becomes stale again.
My two cents.

[Zibmo]

Naduk, on 20 April 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Wow the people upset by the long Tom are amazingly stupid

Let's pretend that grouping up into a giant ball and hurling your ball at enemy positions is how real military forces operate
Let's also pretend that it's a valid strategy in use currently

So America is fighting Russia
They have a tank force attacking, it's got 40tanks , they form up into a tight and dense ball
They thrust deep into enemy territory , nothing can stand against 40 of those giant smooth bore cannons
Their power is only matched by the sheer volume of armour in their death ball

So what possible defense can the Russians mount , they have tried line abreast, wedge , v, claw, line
None of the traditional unit formations work against this terrible new power play

Oh right they just drop a huge bomb on the entire enemy force and wipe them all out with one strike
Wow that was easy

Welcome to Fulda. That is specifically why the neutron bomb was developed.

Sometimes you can't pick your battlefield.

When you have a 25M wide gate to go through and then are funneled through a narrow canyon system, it's a bit superficial to imagine that you can simply "spread out". Because you can't, other than vertically. And what happens to a column of mechs that maintains 600m diameter spacing?

[crustydog]

FW is hard enough on the new players without having Tom sweep them from the field.

Sure experienced players have adapted - but is it fun?

No, it's not fun - it's the opposite of fun.

It's really really really really really really really bad game design.

Tac Nuke whack a mole, pretending to be a viable game.

Spin it any way you like - a pig is still a pig no matter how much lipstick you apply.

[102_devill]

I personally like the idea of the LT, I think it brings a very interesting twist to the match, although I am usually on the receiving side. That being said, I think that the execution is terribly implemented.

For example, on defense side of Vitric it is nearly impossible to spread out. There are so many structures and narrow passages, which by the way don't offer ANY cover.

Either they make the LT blast respect the line of sight, or they should reduce its frequency.

Another thing: targeting landing zones with LT is just totally silly. If you re-spawn just as the LT is firing you get wiped out a millisecond after your brand new mech touches the ground.

Finally, I have to shoo away newbie pugs over VOIP so as to not be targeted by LT. Last game I was telling people over VOIP what to do and calling out LT arrival for everyone. But, there was a total newbie in the trial commando, just following me around. Everyone else had spread out nicely so I got hit because of this guy.

I am for LT staying in the game, but to be really a nice mechanic I think the following should be implemented:

1. Make LT respect the line-of-sight; obstacles (cover) should impact the blast.

2. Power down your mech; you should not be detectable to the satellite sweep and hence not targeted by the LT.

3. Mechs which dropped from the drop ship should not appear in the target list of the LT for 15-20 seconds after the drop. Either that, or if the LT is active and the satellite sweep is imminent, let the incoming dropships delay their drop until LT has fired.

In the end, the main problem is (especially now, during the event) the massive numbers of disorganized people hurdling to scout drops and screwing up the recon percentage for their team. The situation with the LT was actually much better before this event when there were not so many scouting matches being played. I would like to see a scouting phase and then followed by the invasion phase. Or maybe, if you assemble a queue of 12 people, let them play several scouting matches and then continue to invasion. So for example each lance in the queue would play one scouting match against one lance in the opposite queue. The results of these matches would then determine the recon % for the invasion phase. That would extend the match by 10 minutes in total, but people in that match would be directly responsible to the conditions in which they will play the invasion phase.

Just my 2c.

[DJO Maverick]

Yeah, it's about as broken as can be at the moment; like mentioned earlier, it's ridiculous that the only team with any control over it is the team it's supposed to be targeted against.

With even modestly talented people on the targeted side, it's as much (or more) of a danger to the side it's supposed to be helping. We've lost (way) more people to friendly Tom fire in our last two matches than enemy fire.

The last of the two involved a team that actually made suicide bombing their entire strategy, in Hellebore. They split their team with 4-6 trash lights (LCT, CMD) and the rest of their heavies on the opposite side of the map spread out. The suicide bombers hid until the count ran, then immediately zoomed into us and facehugged the closest heavy without any plans of escape.

Scattering isn't an option for avoiding friendly fire for heavies. Heavies or assaults can't clear 300m from a facehugging light in the couple of seconds after smoke falls (or at all). You can, of course, kill or cripple all but one light before they reach 300m, but with six coming in through the sight lines of Hellebore, it's a dicey proposition if they're only evading.

I'm all for adapting, but there's no fun in having to try full time to dodge the mini nukes even if you're supposed to be the ones they're helping.

Here's hoping they look at some of the friendly fire metrics and disable the thing until they do their total overhaul. As it stands, not sure the event is worth putting up with that.

[MischiefSC]

The problem is that all this accomplishes is having flooding the scout queue shut down invasion queue. This gives a net result of less total playing. That's a big negative.

All in all, if I was in a room with {Godwin's Law} and Long Tom and a gun with 2 bullets I'd shoot Long Tom twice.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

MischiefSC, on 30 April 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

The problem is that all this accomplishes is having flooding the scout queue shut down invasion queue. This gives a net result of less total playing. That's a big negative.

All in all, if I was in a room with {Godwin's Law} and Long Tom and a gun with 2 bullets I'd shoot Long Tom twice.

Shooting the Long Tom twice would just get rid of the whole room.

[FallingAce]

So now we're playing "Long Tom Warrior Online" instead of Mechwarrior Online.

Who even need mechs when you can drop a tactical nuke on the enemy every 2 minutes.

[Husker Dude]

Yeah, it's an interesting mechanic but 2 minute recharge totally makes the matches unplayable.

[Jman5]

Man. I'm looking at the queues and nearly all the planets I can play on have Long Toms dropping for one side or the other. Seems that if you want to drop on invasion, you better do it early in the attack phase.

[DivBy0]

Long Tom kills FW

Scouting is unbalanced (of course not for our mega-pro-gamer) and Long Dumb kill the Invasion-Mode.... terrible situation.
In the current state playing FW (scouting and invasion) make no sense and no fun.

PGI fix it!

[ColdPsyker1]

Totenxcx, on 30 April 2016 - 04:22 AM, said:

Nope. This is actually worse than before. the basic gameplay remains unchanged except now you have this huge field of death dropping every 2 minutes. It's so damn huge that if you're in it's radius when it activates you might as well take it like a man cause you sure ain't running out of that infinite plane of destruction.

Honestly I was just in a match

I was last player on team

In a Summoner (91kph)

Just kept running in a straight line

-got hit and brought me down to 87% health, orange legs

Honestly if you cant outrun the long tom at 90kph, how the hell are people supposed to "spread out"