28 replies to this topic

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Quote

The Cyclops is here!This is the first time in a while that they haven't teased the mech in advance at a townhall, and it's nice. Not as nice as just releasing a new mech for C-Bills like any other game might but...still. Feels good to just see what a mech can do right off the bat, it's way more exciting. For example, if you'd just told me that the Cyclops was coming without telling me the specific variants & hardpoints, I wouldn't be particularly enthusiastic. I'd think "sure, it's a nice mech, but doesn't add anything that new!" And I'd be wrong.
The Cyclops is the most usefully diverse mech we've seen in a while, and the best way to see this is by comparing it to other recently introduced mechs.

• Viper: Omnimech, pretty much only going to be used as an energy boat
  
• Phoenix Hawk: A few variants can do different sorts of energy boat builds, but it's all energy boating (and a few useless variants)
  
• Kodiak: One variant's a full-on brawler, one is dakka, but the rest are varying degrees of Laser Boating with maybe a couple Gauss thrown in
  
• Archer: Missile boat
  
• Rifleman: Ballistic & energy boat
  
• Warhammer: Ballistic & energy boat
  
• Marauder: Ballistic & energy boat
  
• Mauler: Ballistic boat
  
• Black Knight, Crab, Wolfhound: ...sigh

A few have some variety to them, but the Kodiak is the only one with more than a couple of actually good ways to play the chassis. And sure, maybe this doesn't matter to you and you enjoy your bracket builds and special snowflake playstyle...but it matters to me. I love playing different sorts of things, but it's way more fun when it's useful. And that's why I'm actually kind of excited to play the Cyclops.




We're looking at a Mauler-style dakka variant, an Archer-style missile variant, an Atlas-style ballistic/missile brawler, a Banshee-style dakka/laser variant, an ECM variant, and a laser boat/Boar's Head-style energy variant. In other words, PGI has managed to create a unique role for each mech without resorting to quirks, and none of these roles suck.

A point could certainly be made that each of these variants has an existing counterpart outside of the chassis, and to some extent that's true. But that's also nothing new - it's been a long time since a new mech added a new build to the game. A really long time. The biggest "new" things have been along the lines of a mech having more of this type of hardpoint than any mech has had before, or an Assault mech being allowed to use two AC/20s, and even those weren't that exciting after the initial charm wore off. So yeah, that's not a huge deal, and it's not even all that true anyways - each of the variants has something about the hardpoints or tonnages or slots to make it distinct from other mechs with similar hardpoint layouts.

But even if each one was a carbon copy of an existing mech, there's a new super-quirk thing that PGI is putting in! It is the "Tacticon B-2000 Battle Computer" (yes, that's canon). It's not a module or equipment or anything that needs to be equipped, but it increases the sensor range of all Cyclopes (yes, that's the plural of Cyclops). Oh yeah, and it increases the sensor range of friendly mechs within a certain radius of the Cyclops. And...that's pretty cool.

Each variant is unique from the others, each variant has the potential to be good, and the chassis itself is different enough from other mechs. It is the most varied mech that PGI has announced since Clans, and the best part? Those of us that looked at it in Sarna, in TRO, in the Record Sheets...we saw that the hardpoints look boring. And in MWO, they're exciting! Seriously, whoever designed the Cyclops deserves a cookie.

Oh and, speaking of people that deserve a cookie, check out that goddamn Special Variant camo! Lots of people have made lots of comparisons, but to me it seems beautifully Lovecraftian. I don't expect PGI to do this (probably would require a good deal of extra time in the modeling process), but I think it would be really cool if all those eyes had little recessed domes associated with them, to add texture to the most badass skin I've seen.

Now then. Let's talk builds!

CP-11-A (S)

This is the base variant, and comes with 3 ballistics in the RT, 3 energy split between the arms, and 3 missiles between the CT and LT. Right off the bat, I am reminded of the BNC-3E and the MAD-3R, and those builds are obviously going to be go-to's (3xAC/5 and various amounts of Large Lasers and Large Pulse). But I find a different build to be a bit more...tantalizing.

• Endo, Standard Armor (arms at 0, legs at 57, max elsewhere), STD310 (60 KPH)
  
• 3x AC/5, 7 tons ammo
  
• 3x SRM4 with Artemis, 2.5 tons ammo
  
• 13 DHS

Obviously it isn't quite as good as dakka with lasers, but...it looks nearly as good and much more fun. And it looks uniquely fun; as far as I can tell, only the Mauler can run these weapons, and it doesn't make much sense on a Mauler.




CP-10-Q

This is the Archer-style super-missile-boat variant, with a total of 7 missile hardpoints spread symmetrically between the side torsos and CT. Unfortunately, one of those hardpoints being in the CT means that you can't run all SRM6s with Artemis, but you can run...[

• Endo, Standard Armor (one arm at 0, other at 22, legs at 62, max elsewhere), STD335 (64.8 KPH)
  
• 6x SRM6 with Artemis and 1x SRM4 with Artemis, 8.5 tons ammo
  
• 14 DHS

With an 86 damage alpha strike, this will be one of the most offensively powerful brawling assault mechs. Heat and speed issues could absolutely hold it back from the mainstream, but there are lots of plausible permutations of this build. And hey, on the off-chance that this is XL-safe, you can fit a 400... In the development of this variant, I highly recommend implementing generic missile heat gen quirks and structure boosts to make such a build decent.




CP-10-Z

This variant is basically the mini-Boar's Head. It could end up being a straight-up laser vomit variant, but that'd be a damn shame because of the other option(s) it has at its disposal.

• Endo, Standard Armor (legs at 69, max elsewhere), STD350 (67.7 KPH)
  
• 1x AC/20, 4 tons ammo
  
• 6x Medium Laser
  
• 18 DHS

In a lot of ways, it really is the mini-Boar's Head. Maybe it's a bit weaker offensively, probably it'll be weaker defensively, but it's still strong and it's still fast. Plus, you can run something like 6 Larges or 3 Large Pulse and 3 Meds or whatever.




CP-11-A-DC

Just like the 10-Z was the mini-Boar's Head, this is the mini-Atlas AS7-S. Except it has an extra ballistic. And a missile hardpoint in the CT. So it's really not a mini-AS7-S, it's just sort of similar. And sure, you could use an AC/20 or 2 UAC/5s and a bunch of SRMs...but you could also do this:

• Endo, Standard Armor (arms at 0, legs at 65, max elsewhere), STD310 (60 KPH)
  
• 4x SRM4 with Artemis, 4 tons ammo
  
• 2x LB 10-X AC, 4 tons ammo
  
• 13 DHS

Heh heh heh. Honestly, I don't think that this will be bad at all. Not great, but...if you've played the LBX/SRM Mauler before, it's kind of embarrassingly effective. And I think this will be better.




CP-11-P

This is the ECM variant. That is pretty much its entire identity, honestly, and that's why this is by far my least anticipated variant. But there are still some decent builds available.

• Endo, Standard Armor (legs at 53, max elsewhere), STD300 (58 KPH), ECM
  
• 2x UAC/5, 6 tons ammo
  
• 3x Large Laser
  
• 14 DHS

Yeah, it's pretty much whatever. The build is really nothing new, and even the current mechs that can play it aren't particularly exciting. But it doesn't suck, and it has ECM. So, that's something. I guess.




CP-S 'SLEIPNIR'

Back to a high note! The Hero is easily my most anticipated variant, in part because it's basically a Mauler. And it has the potential to be even better than a Mauler. I mean, it also has the potential to be worse, but it's got a head laser and it seems that it might have better hitboxes and mount locations.

• Endo, Standard Armor (arms at 0, legs at 57, max elsewhere), STD305 (59 KPH)
  
• 4x UAC/5, 9.5 tons ammo
  
• 1x Medium Laser
  
• 10 DHS

My most hyped thing about this mech is that it seems like - there's been no official confirmation but it seems like - the laser will come out of the eyeball. I just feel like part of the reason that this variant even has a head laser (none of the others do, and PGI only has full freedom on hardpoint locations when crafting a hero mech) is so that they can turn the lens of the cockpit into a laser. And if I'm right about that, it was absolutely the right call.




Value Advice

As always, not gonna say whether or not you should buy it, it's your money, your time, your priorities, etc. But if you are planning on buying it...I'd recommend the base $20 pack plus the hero.

The Hero is very likely to be the best variant, I wouldn't be surprised if it's also the most fun variant, and you get that C-Bill boost on top of that and a pretty nifty camo. In comparison, the $15 add-on pack has the kind-of-boring ECM variant, and the pretty exciting Atlas-style brawling variant. But I don't think that those two mechs, even put together, will be on par with the magnificence of the Hero.

But honestly...if you don't want the Hero, or maybe you want to spend the extra 15 bucks on the add-on variants, or the extra 20 bucks on the special variant and premium time and all the other goodies PGI is offering...knock yourself out. There are absolutely legitimate reasons to do any of those things. Just...maybe wait until we're closer to the close of Early Adopter Rewards on May 20 just in case we hear something new that may influence your decision.

Closing Thoughts

I think that the Cyclops is a well-designed (well-adapted?) mech. I think it'll be fun, and I think it'll be pretty good. But keep in mind that my unbridled enthusiasm way back at the top stems from my expectation of it being fun. It's not because I think it'll be an incredible, top-tier mech that will revolutionize the meta - that's the Kodiak. I mean, it might be all those things, but I kinda doubt it.

Also can I just say...I don't think pre-order decisions in this game should be based on whether or not you think a mech will be strong - not only is that a huge risk due to the importance of stuff like quirks, hitboxes, and other unknowns, but...it sends the wrong message. It says that you want to pay PGI for an in-game advantage over those who don't. On the other hand, pre-ordering a mech pack because you think it will be fun or interesting or innovative tells PGI that you will reward them for adding quality to their game.

But it's your money, do what you want.


GMan129 is an officer of the Steel Jaguar competitive team, he is the owner of and writer for MetaMechs, and he does some writing for NGNG as well. He has been playing MechWarrior Online since the early days of closed beta, and has spent far too much time and money on this crap. If you're interested in supporting his self-destruction, consider contributing to his PayPal or Patreon!

I think he hit the nail on the head. Thoughts?

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 20 April 2016 - 01:37 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

I think that if the only thing that mattered for a mech to be good and viable was quantity and variety of hardpoints, he would be very right.

But I see 3 flies in the ointment.

1) Hardpoints as we see them are pretty low.
2) More crucially, with low hardpoints, it's geometry does not lend to good hitboxes. It's large, with a jutting CT, big boxy STs and arms that don't shield.
3) The tacticon is probably going to be completely neutered due to the abundance of ECM.

I would like to be wrong on all counts, because I like mechs that can be played diverse ways, with all 3 hardpoint types represented. I love love love the actual hardpoint spread, in that regard. But unless we see shoulder height secondary/tertiary ballistics, etc, I don't see it overcoming it's beautiful but competitively flawed, geometry.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

I think that if the only thing that mattered for a mech to be good and viable was quantity and variety of hardpoints, he would be very right.

But I see 3 flies in the ointment.

1) Hardpoints as we see them are pretty low.
2) More crucially, with low hardpoints, it's geometry does not lend to good hitboxes. It's large, with a jutting CT, big boxy STs and arms that don't shield.
3) The tacticon is probably going to be completely neutered due to the abundance of ECM.

I would like to be wrong on all counts, because I like mechs that can be played diverse ways, with all 3 hardpoint types represented. I love love love the actual hardpoint spread, in that regard. But unless we see shoulder height secondary/tertiary ballistics, etc, I don't see it overcoming it's beautiful but competitively flawed, geometry.

Considering how low the single ballistic is in the concept art, it might be safe to assume the other ballistics will move up along the torso, similar to the Banshee. Your other points remain a concern though, only time will tell.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 20 April 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

Considering how low the single ballistic is in the concept art, it might be safe to assume the other ballistics will move up along the torso, similar to the Banshee. Your other points remain a concern though, only time will tell.

indeed. but if you have to pack MGs first to access the higher mount.... MEH. I've got enough mechs with extraneous TAGs, Slasers and MGs, lol.

That said I want this mech to be good, because I love how it looks. But I want it to be good because infowar, not because it was structure buffed to be a Baby Atlas (especially since it was not a robust mech in lore), ya know?

[zagibu]

I think it's pretty cool that they did something with the battle computer. Even if the mech will be meh otherwise, it still has something unique.

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

indeed. but if you have to pack MGs first to access the higher mount.... MEH. I've got enough mechs with extraneous TAGs, Slasers and MGs, lol.

That said I want this mech to be good, because I love how it looks. But I want it to be good because infowar, not because it was structure buffed to be a Baby Atlas (especially since it was not a robust mech in lore), ya know?

I know what you mean, Bishop, but unfortunately I think PGI has scraped Infowar entirely because of how poorly received Ghost Range was, which was technically a separate mechanic. I'm a little more optimistic about the hitboxes though. I think that PGI will do a good job on that, or as good a job as they can given its geometry.

[LegendaryArticuno]

50 - 60 KPH is slow AF, are SRMs really going to be that effective.

[SgtMagor]

Battle computer- by adding other sensor suites (BAP, ECM) will it stack sensor range and other benefits by using together. not really sure how this will all workout?

[zagibu]

LegendaryArticuno, on 20 April 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

50 - 60 KPH is slow AF, are SRMs really going to be that effective.

What are you talking about? It has a 400 max engine rating.

[LegendaryArticuno]

zagibu, on 20 April 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

What are you talking about? It has a 400 max engine rating.

Bruh... do you even mechbay? Put a 400 and all you'll be able to equip are med lasers.

[zagibu]

LegendaryArticuno, on 20 April 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

Bruh... do you even mechbay? Put a 400 and all you'll be able to equip are med lasers.

Your post still doesn't make sense, because even the standard layouts have a 360 rated engine and move at 64 kph unskilled.

[Felicitatem Parco]

zagibu, on 20 April 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

What are you talking about? It has a 400 max engine rating.

I honestly bought it for the Splatclops...

[ChapeL]

I don't care about low hardpoints. The Black Knight has them and it's never been a problem because I tailor my playstyle around them. For the same reason I don't hill hump in a Gargoyle I won't in a Cyclops either ( should I buy it ). I'm surprised to read this is still an issue.

[100 Tonne]

My atlii are sad panders. I agree but also feel that these new mechs coming out with inflated hard points are obsoleting older mechs. eg atlas.

[ChapeL]

I don't think the Atlas has anything to fear from the Cyclops. While the latter has more fire power it won't have the same survivability.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Big Grimm, on 20 April 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

My atlii are sad panders. I agree but also feel that these new mechs coming out with inflated hard points are obsoleting older mechs. eg atlas.

The Atlas won't be obsoleted. I doubt the Cyclops will get the same level of survivability quirks. The Atlas S and DDC will remain brawling kings.

[Alistair Winter]

Just a minor point:

I predict the head laser will not be in place of the "eye", but rather attached to the head somehow. Either directly underneath the cockpit, like the Wolverine, or next to the head, like the Grasshopper, or on top of the head, like an Awesome. I'd love to be wrong about this, but PGI's artists really do love laser cubes, with no exceptions. Even the circular barrels of the Mauler got ugly square cubes inside them. Makes my brain squirm every time I look at my non-PPC Maulers.

[Zordicron]

I think that giant guide-like listing would be well and good....

IF

we actually knew if the mech will be viable in any/some/few of those "roles that don't suck" as written.

Writing out a loadout guide for a mech that is just concept art might just be considered jumping the gun a tad IMO. Not to discourage the mechlab drooling, I mean that is one of the fun parts of the game. but hard to take this seriously at this time given the mech could turn out to be a mega CT dmg magnet and invalidate any loadouts that work inside 500M. It could also turn out to be the most bad *** brawler we have ever seen. Who knows!! Not me, and not OP's quoted loadout guide either.

Take that text wall of mechlab daydreaming with a grain of salt.

[Gas Guzzler]

Big Grimm, on 20 April 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

My atlii are sad panders. I agree but also feel that these new mechs coming out with inflated hard points are obsoleting older mechs. eg atlas.

The AS7-S is the best brawling assault in the game right now...

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

2) More crucially, with low hardpoints, it's geometry does not lend to good hitboxes. It's large, with a jutting CT, big boxy STs and arms that don't shield.

The Cyclops is an Archer Torso with Warhammer/Rifleman legs and a brand-new head and brand-new arms.

It would seem that PGI is playing Lego 'Mechs with the fundamental geometry on Inner Sphere machines, now. This is no longer an OmniMech phenomenon.