129 replies to this topic

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Deathlike, on 21 April 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

I see a lot of Paul in this thread.

This is why we can't have nice things.

HAH...thread...

*glares at the whole goddamn community*

[sycocys]

Marmon Rzohr, on 21 April 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

an interesting idea to intentionally skimp on ammo if you are going to be playing 4v4. I like that min-maxing

What I can tell you is that most of my play since the start of the game has involved using srm based builds. How much ammo I bring and what I load for other weaponry and gear is based on specifically around how much ammo I can actually unload into opposing mechs in an average match - not based on the potential damage concept.

You actually want to be down to that last salvo or out in every match, not left over with 2 tons of ammo because you can't fire it all off before the other team is wiped out. And 800 potential damage is fantastic, but if you only fire off or put half your shots on target you wasted 2 tons that could have gone towards something more useful.

For some-to-many people srm4/a is probably a nice bonus, they haven't been practicing that weapon for a long time. Personally I find that with srm4, artemis simply isn't necessary once you learn how to aim and range them. Once you have that sorted out you can allocate tonnage and slots to things that expand your mech's capability.

As for LPL vs MPL - normally I would take MPL on most mechs as I prefer the cycle time. On this Griffin however the LPL makes more sense because of the SRM4 racks since they will actually push through that finishing punch where 2 MPL would in most cases not. They also give you some leeway to get shots of when closing into range, which for scouting mode seems like it would be far more advantageous given your are only facing mechs with similar speeds or higher.
-- You also only have 2 energy slots and no ecm like the 2N to assist you in gaining that last few hundred meters of foothold, having a bit longer range to work with is a good way to compensate for that.

JJ is a point we can argue back and forth all day. The only maps I've ever considered them mildly useful are Bog, Canyon, and the new Caustic and completely unnecessary on any other map. It just takes a measure of memory to recall where the no-go zones are which isn't a problem for me, so I always allocate the slot space and tonnage to something that is more useful than occasionally hopping rocks that I could just walk around.

And heat - well that all just comes down to preference. I run most of my mechs down in the 1.2-3 range and function just fine. With srm/laser mechs its really not a big issue as most of the time you shouldn't ever fire a full alpha. Srms need to be lead to target, with lasers fired after you adjust back onto target. All about fire control and kiting around/through cover to limit return fire and control your cd's and heat cycles.

[GrimRiver]

Streakcrow 97.2kph/104.5kph + 270m+weapon mods SSRM's range

You can outrun it but you'll still might be in it's weapon range.

I've been seeing some with TAG, NARC and lasers in combo with ssrm's so ECM doesn't always work nor do people always bring AMS because they can't fit it.

I'll much rather deal with a streakadder or streakshadcat on my tail.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Karl Streiger, on 21 April 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

The main issue is that the Stormcrow is vanilla. In 3050 there is simple not a single IS Medium that can compete with a Stormcrow not even in TT.

To be fair... in TT it's supposed to take 3-4 tech level 1 IS mechs with average IS pilots to kill a single clan mech with an average clan pilot.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 21 April 2016 - 09:09 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Johnny why do you even post on here? None of your posts or responses ever make any coherent sense. And Dovhis I thought you had more sense, but alas not I guess.

[Karl Streiger]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 21 April 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

To be fair... in TT it's supposed to take 3-4 tech level 1 IS mechs with average IS pilots to kill a single clan mech with an average clan pilot.

Yep - 4 Panther vs a single Thor and i think i did need a bunch of 5 Panther to defeat it in TT.
While I would like to fight such fights - they are not going to happen - not even when running Stock PNT-9R Panthers vs the best Thor you can create with MWO options. Of course you would need a private lobby agaim

The main issue are not the weapons but the heat system - its all about alpha fire - a kind of heat credit - you deal more heat as you should be able to dissipate (this is the main issue why assault mechs are hardly better as a heavy and why some mediums are better options as the heavys.... .... ....

To be fair - i really would like to see all the Clan Omnis to get the full MK.1 urban legend upgrades - this would help to level the field - on one side.
For example if the Nova and Mad Dog can run as fast as the Stormcrow - plus JumpJets for the Nova - things will become more interesting.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 April 2016 - 10:20 PM.

[DovisKhan]

TercieI, on 21 April 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

He's wiser than all Tier One comp teams and players. Haven't you been reading?

Lol you make it sound like Tier1 means anything when it's so laughably easy to achieve (me coming from a MOBA setting where it's much more competitive and balanced it sure strikes me amazed), went to T2 using Locust and Commando, MDD/KGC(S) when farming cbills for modules and MDD using an LRM boat setting, none considered tier 1 mechs in these forums, I still don't own a single laser vomit mech, because ballistics are better at medium and srms are better at short range, getting to that range doesn't require any special skills either since all maps have enough cover to close in.

Laser vomit is for lazy people, cause anyone can point and click a laser, but it has less reward than ammo consuming weapons

Edited by DovisKhan, 21 April 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[VorpalAnvil]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

Many things which make zero sense and show that this person lives in a bubble/echo chamber of clan OP

It is better to remain silent and thought a fool...

[dervishx5]

VorpalAnvil, on 21 April 2016 - 11:43 PM, said:

It is better to remain silent and thought a fool...

[Revis Volek]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

Lol you make it sound like Tier1 means anything when it's so laughably easy to achieve (me coming from a MOBA setting where it's much more competitive and balanced it sure strikes me amazed), went to T2 using Locust and Commando, MDD/KGC(S) when farming cbills for modules and MDD using an LRM boat setting, none considered tier 1 mechs in these forums, I still don't own a single laser vomit mech, because ballistics are better at medium and srms are better at short range, getting to that range doesn't require any special skills either since all maps have enough cover to close in.

Laser vomit is for lazy people, cause anyone can point and click a laser, but it has less reward than ammo consuming weapons

If its so easy to achieve why arent you showing yours? Why dont i see every single player in the game at T1 by now. Its so easy, all the kids are doing it.

You should be in T1 by now, right? And actually SURMS and DAKKA are very meta right now in the correct mechs which i think someone said already.

[DovisKhan]

VorpalAnvil, on 21 April 2016 - 11:43 PM, said:

It is better to remain silent and thought a fool...

Well, I consider most of you inferior, so your opinions matter very little to me, especially when evaluation who's a fool or not

Revis Volek, on 21 April 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

If its so easy to achieve why arent you showing yours? Why dont i see every single player in the game at T1 by now. Its so easy, all the kids are doing it.

You should be in T1 by now, right? And actually SURMS and DAKKA are very meta right now in the correct mechs which i think someone said already.

Because I'm tier2, it takes time, because every win only moves the xp bar a barely visible amount and i'm here since Jan this year, so playing a few games a day it takes a bit, it's still easy since i don't lose psr when losing games and just gain when i win

[Revis Volek]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 11:46 PM, said:

Well, I consider most of you inferior, so your opinions matter very little to me, especially when evaluation who's a fool or not



Because I'm tier2, it takes time, because every win only moves the xp bar a barely visible amount and i'm here since Jan this year, so playing a few games a day it takes a bit, it's still easy since i don't lose psr when losing games and just gain when i win

wow, you just cant stop digging that hole deeper can you?

[DovisKhan]

Revis Volek, on 21 April 2016 - 11:47 PM, said:

wow, you just cant stop digging that hole deeper can you?

Never, I'a mofo so deep you cant even see me



Also if there is a way to display my tier in a sig or next to my name, do let me know how, since I'm a forum noob I don't know that, but that way I could demonstrate how easy it really is.


Since screenshots are easy to photoshop anyway, they can't constitute a proof, I'd rather use an API that directly draws data from MWO stats

Edited by DovisKhan, 21 April 2016 - 11:53 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Well this thread is hillarious. In a serious game setting

Best Light : Oxide (IIC and cheetah come in joint second)
Best Medium : BJ, 4SP, Griffin

Seriously in a competitive setting the scrow rarely gets used, its such an easy kill, the 3 IS mediums above are better choices, the 4SP and griffin are much sturdier choices.

[Widowmaker1981]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

Lol you make it sound like Tier1 means anything when it's so laughably easy to achieve (me coming from a MOBA setting where it's much more competitive and balanced it sure strikes me amazed), went to T2 using Locust and Commando, MDD/KGC(S) when farming cbills for modules and MDD using an LRM boat setting, none considered tier 1 mechs in these forums, I still don't own a single laser vomit mech, because ballistics are better at medium and srms are better at short range, getting to that range doesn't require any special skills either since all maps have enough cover to close in.

Laser vomit is for lazy people, cause anyone can point and click a laser, but it has less reward than ammo consuming weapons

And yet, you continually complain clans OP, when all the best players in the game disagree. Something doesn't add up... if you understand how the game works, how are you so wrong?

[DovisKhan]

Widowmaker1981, on 21 April 2016 - 11:52 PM, said:

And yet, you continually complain clans OP, when all the best players in the game disagree. Something doesn't add up... if you understand how the game works, how are you so wrong?

Name one instance where I said Clans OP


I always said they dominate lower weight tiers and are balanced at higher weight tiers


So If say one was to drop


3 BK and an Oxide vs 3 Timbers and an ACH it would be pretty balanced

Edited by DovisKhan, 21 April 2016 - 11:56 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 11:54 PM, said:

Name one instance where I said Clans OP


I always said they dominate lower weight tiers and are balanced at higher weight tiers


So If say one was to drop


3 BK and an Oxide vs 3 Timbers and an ACH it would be pretty balanced

They don't dominate lower weight tiers though that's the point.
Assuming equal pilot skill, the BK Oxide combo would rip the clan lance.

[DovisKhan]

Oderint dum Metuant, on 22 April 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

They don't dominate lower weight tiers though that's the point.
Assuming equal pilot skill, the BK Oxide combo would rip the clan lance.

They simply have lower damage caps, it's a non debatable fact, Oxide for example carries 5 tons of ammo, with a max potential of 1k dmg, if you want 6 tons you have to drop engine to a 112kph post tweak, which is truly rather slow for a Light


That's why there's way more videos of IIC or Arctic Cheetah hitting high numbers


There's one with Shadow Cat doing ~1700 dmg in a quickmatch, a number that any assault would have to try really hard to achieve


You might argue that under certain conditions IS lights are better and it's true, but the capacity for excellence is higher with Clan Lights


Heavies are equal all things considered, each better at different things

[maniacos]

Revis Volek, on 21 April 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

If its so easy to achieve why arent you showing yours? Why dont i see every single player in the game at T1 by now. Its so easy, all the kids are doing it.

You should be in T1 by now, right? And actually SURMS and DAKKA are very meta right now in the correct mechs which i think someone said already.

Because you get to T1 sooner or later when you play QP alot and manage to keep your WLR above 50% for some time, means you are average player with some luck in matchmaking. And then you haven't played in the group que yet, because if you join a better group that has some practice you reach T1 even faster. Some people however hardly play any QP, for me because it's boring, and in FP you don't get any skill ratings.

Tier means not much here compared to other games.

Edited by maniacos, 22 April 2016 - 12:54 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

DovisKhan, on 22 April 2016 - 12:45 AM, said:

They simply have lower damage caps, it's a non debatable fact, Oxide for example carries 5 tons of ammo, with a max potential of 1k dmg, if you want 6 tons you have to drop engine to a 112kph post tweak, which is truly rather slow for a Light


That's why there's way more videos of IIC or Arctic Cheetah hitting high numbers


There's one with Shadow Cat doing ~1700 dmg in a quickmatch, a number that any assault would have to try really hard to achieve


You might argue that under certain conditions IS lights are better and it's true, but the capacity for excellence is higher with Clan Lights


Heavies are equal all things considered, each better at different things

Your dismissing a number of things, a typical oxide carries 4.5 tons of ammo, which is plenty for what an oxide is supposed to be doing.

You talk about lower damage caps, and ignore the fact the IS mechs are quirked out the rear end. There is a reason the Timberwolf you talk about is rarely taken in competitive top end play.

Because the BK, Grasshopper and Quickdraw are better. (because the IS platform with quirks is superior)