56 replies to this topic

[SolVali]

Coolant, on 24 April 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

Unless it was 100 v 100 and there was no room to move, it doesn't matter how many are playing because you can still hide and snipe. What makes you think 4v4 is any different in the ability to snipe and hide? 12v12 was a great change and I wish there was even more mechs on the battlefield to make the war feel more like war.

12v12 means when you go out into the open, you have more people fireing at you, 8v8 means less, a charge therefore becomes more effective, rather then pop your head out, and you're gone.

Example is if a group goes to meet the enemy, they find them, they split into two groups to cover the two main entrances to where they are. in a 12 v 12, that's 6 each, it gets crowded. In a 8v8, that's 4, less crowded, less firepower when the enemy steps out into the open, TTK is longer, more time to reach the enemy and put in some firepower.

I don't mind big matches, but as i said there comes a point where matches have so many players that the playstyle changes.

[Khobai]

8v8 > 12v12

Even PGIs world tournament is 8v8 rather than 12v12 because they realized how flawed 12v12 was for esports. 12v12 is crap to commentate/spectate because TTK is retardedly low.

12v12 is fine for CW because it has respawns. But the non-respawn gamemodes (skirmish/conquest/assault/domination) need to go back to 8v8.

Quote

12v12 means when you go out into the open, you have more people fireing at you, 8v8 means less, a charge therefore becomes more effective, rather then pop your head out, and you're gone.

12v12 means even an assault mech gets melted instantly when it pops its head out.

In 8v8 being in an assault mech actually meant something. 12v12 basically killed the assault weight class.

Edited by Khobai, 24 April 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[Davegt27]

Not sure what skill the OP is talking about

I either out alpha you or you out alpha me that’s about it

Now if you can say you can consistently win over 3 Stormcrows firing streaks at you

I would say that is some skill or mo-jo

[C E Dwyer]

I wonder how many people would leave if if reverted to 8v8
I certainly don't remember it being any better

[SolVali]

Davegt27, on 24 April 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

Not sure what skill the OP is talking about

I either out alpha you or you out alpha me that’s about it

Now if you can say you can consistently win over 3 Stormcrows firing streaks at you

I would say that is some skill or mo-jo

Torso turning, using cover like trees while weapons reload and so on. More players, more alpha, faster death. Less players, less concentrated firepower, slower death, more time for player skill to show.

[FrankyTooSkanky]

All for 12v12 Invasion, 8v8 QP, and 4v4 Scout, Say I


I

[KodiakGW]

jozkhan, on 24 April 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

8 v 8 was definitely the 'sweet spot' and I think alot of people would come back to this game if it was reintroduced rather than just check in every 6 months or so and go 'nahh' like we are doing now.

Agreed. I know a few who would come back because they are doing just what you said they are doing now.

[Lostdragon]

I desperately want more modes with 4v4 and 8v8. 8v8 were the best, most fun battles I have had in MWO.

[evillittlestew]

i actually do miss the 8v8 days 12v12 is such a cluster fu** it's stupid but they wont ever change back

[Moldur]

jozkhan, on 24 April 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

rather than just check in every 6 months or so and go 'nahh' like we are doing now.

Too close to home, lol.

Edited by Moldur, 24 April 2016 - 01:16 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Alistair Winter, on 24 April 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

So I've come to the conclusion that 8v8 is probably the best compromise for MWO right now, given our lack of dynamic game modes and the relatively low TTK. Because the 4v4 game mode offers no real incentive to do anything but "stay together and brawl, bro".


I wish Quick Play was 8v8, and they left 4v4 and 12v12 for Faction Play, personally.

I really do not see how 8v8 would result in any different outcome. TTK is too fast in MWO. It rivals other FPS like CS and CoD. These are not fatigue wearing Marines. They are armored BattleMechs. The only thing the fast TTK is good for is rapid cycling through games to grind c-bills and XP. But anyone who has played the game very long does not really need either one of those so the entire game just becomes tedious and repetitive to them.

1v1, 4v4, and 8v8 can work well in Solaris and that is where it really belongs. Solaris will work well for eSports whereas MWO will not in its present state.

The Alpha strike meta needs to be fixed in order for this game to have a chance to actually be a MechWarrior game. Until that happens it does not matter what XvX mode you try. Games will continue to be a quick uninspriring brawl with the only objective being to kill fast as go to the next boring match.

[Mystere]

Cathy, on 24 April 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

I wonder how many people would leave if if reverted to 8v8
I certainly don't remember it being any better

The terms people are looking for are "nostalgia" and "rose-colored glasses".

[Tarl Cabot]

Alistair Winter, on 24 April 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

You know, I was really looking forward to 4v4. I thought it would be everything MWO needed to rejuvenate my love for the game. Not that I ever stopped loving MWO, but our marriage has been difficult at times.

I thought 4v4 would be very slow-paced and I imagined it would be a lot easier to carry and that I would be less vulnerable to teams with crappy teamwork. I was partially right.

• In 4v4, most of the matches end up as relatively quick brawls at short range, so the only teamwork necessary is calling targets. If you have one guy calling targets over VOIP, that's basically everything you need. And maybe a macro of someone screaming "LEGS! LEGS! HIT THE LEGS!"
  
• In 4v4, if everyone is in meta-builds, the best players will be able to carry harder. On the flipside, if you have 1 AFK or one joker in his LRM Commando, your team is extremely handicapped, and it is much harder to carry. 1 AFK mech in 4v4 is almost like 3 AFK mechs in 12v12.
  
• In 4v4, matches aren't really any longer than 12v12, despite less potential for focus firing and snowballing. Matches are short and vicious if teams are playing correctly, because TTK is relatively low in MWO, and it doesn't take 4 mechs too long to kill a light / medium.

So I've come to the conclusion that 8v8 is probably the best compromise for MWO right now, given our lack of dynamic game modes and the relatively low TTK. Because the 4v4 game mode offers no real incentive to do anything but "stay together and brawl, bro".


I wish Quick Play was 8v8, and they left 4v4 and 12v12 for Faction Play, personally.

For 4vs4 to add variety there has to be more variables, such as Light vs light, med vs med, heavy vs heavy, assaults vs assaults and AHML, with no opt out ability.

[Noesis]

PGI are unlikely to move back to 8 mans as it would imply more sessions on the servers and require more investment into them per population quota.

Though with lower populations being a potential issue in CW today then perhaps this would at least allow for more participation and gameplay for the existing players.

[2fast2stompy]

Tarl Cabot, on 24 April 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

AHML, with no opt out ability.

Abnormal Heat Medium Lasers? I think those are already in the game

[Red Shrike]

2fast2stompy, on 24 April 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

Abnormal Heat Medium Lasers? I think those are already in the game

All Heavy Medium Light?

[Novakaine]

They need a uber gigantic map for battalion level fights.
Yup 36 vs. 36

[Cy Mitchell]

Novakaine, on 24 April 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

They need a uber gigantic map for battalion level fights.
Yup 36 vs. 36

Now, you are talking!

[Zordicron]

When we made the switch from 8 to 12, it was an immediate change to how you had to stick to cover, and how teams moved. Loadouts were invalidated, even basic weapon balance got thrown for a loop.

Where before if you poked your nose out, 1 or 2 mechs might see you to shoot back, now it was 3 or 4, maybe 5 or 6 even because of how saturated the battlefield became and the shared targeting.

12 vs 12 took the issues with PPFLD and magnified them greatly.

It made it so deathball wasn;t just an advantage, it was required.
In order to deathball, and trade sneaky shots, you had to have a faster engine for slower mechs. In the 8 days, an Atlas commonly used a STD 300. In 12 vs 12 now, it's been bumped to a 350. Your mech needs to fall within that sort of 60-85kph bracket. Oddly, fast mediums and even fast heavy(think, over 110 kph) are sort of in the same boat, there is little point in using the engine weight when you simply can;t move out of cover on your own for the reprecussions of 6 mechs firing on you.

Because of the required minimal face time, loadouts tended to go even further into PPFLD/min exposure types. So the two things fed off each other for a while, and then clans came about and reinforced it yet again with longer ranged weapons and higher speed making our too small maps that were for some reason designed like funnels in many cases even more punishing for the poor n00b that makes a positioning error.

I have wanted to rewind to 8 vs 8 for a long while now. 12 vs 12 or even more has a place, but it needs a game mode and maps designed for such a thing. 24 vs 24 would be pretty cool, on a map like twice the size of alpine peaks, possibly with respawns so the unlucky few that got caught early didn;t have a 20 minute wait to play that mech again. Otherwise it's just not possible. Imagine 48 mechs playing on a map like Caustic, it would be rediculous.

[DaZur]

Cathy, on 24 April 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

I wonder how many people would leave if if reverted to 8v8
I certainly don't remember it being any better

Like most stories re-told they tend to over embellish for effect...

I personally never felt the difference in team-number shift either.