Jump to content

Real Reason Mwo Is Losing Steam Players


  • You cannot reply to this topic
197 replies to this topic

#41 Narcissistic Martyr

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 4,242 posts
  • LocationLouisville, KY

Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:22 AM

View PostPaigan, on 23 April 2016 - 10:36 PM, said:

You know that this is the very basic principle of how advertisement works, right?
Hardly any game lives up to it's trailer.

Take EVE-Online, for example:
Trailers: Awesome story-packed epicly huge space battle
Reality: clicking icons while zoomed out for 99% of your time like in a browser game. And 1% ultra giga mega lag.
That is ALL there is to EVE.

It's childish to complain about it.


You forgot hundreds and hundreds of hours in excel managing and planning your resources. That's the best part of EVE.

#42 Malachy Karrde

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 473 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:38 AM

View PostAresye, on 23 April 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Then get yourself a team and brawl, because that's the only time brawling actually works.

The reason people sit back and poke isn't because the game is designed that way. Brawling is actually a more successful and used tactic in high end competitive play.

No, the reason people sit back and play mid-long range poking is because most players in this game have no idea how to work as a team.

Want a thinking man's shooter? Want intense, in your face brawling action like that video? Play comp.
every comp match I've ever played hasn't been anything different than quick play in the brawling department. So called comp play is not the promised land *** far as I'm concerned. The people invested in it are ruder and have bigger egos but that's the only difference.

#43 Tordin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Wolf
  • The Wolf
  • 2,937 posts
  • LocationNordic Union

Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:39 AM

View PostChapeL, on 23 April 2016 - 10:09 PM, said:

I wouldn't say the weapons do too much damage. It's that every weapon on your mech, in its hands, arms, waist, shoudlers ( anywhere! ) can converge on a tiny quarter sized area on a mech 10 to 800 meters away.


The core problem to ghost heat and such, are pin point damage. If there were more natural spread to weapons, weapon convergence etc. There was this guy, thread that pointed out exactly what the problem with this game was. Big list actually. Cant remember all of it right now.

#44 Johnny Z

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • 9,942 posts
  • LocationDueling on Solaris

Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:39 AM

View PostOderint dum Metuant, on 23 April 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

It's a multiple of issues.

There's no point to this game, there's no hook for anyone not vested in Mechwarrior/Battle tech.
The game play at lower tiers is hardly the epitome of fun...

The list is quite large


Yep.

I cant be sure but I think the guys building the game know all of this and are working on it. I like to think that interest is what keeps players playing. The alternatives like grind or other tactics other games use are not really very cool.

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 April 2016 - 04:44 AM.


#45 Jeffrey Wilder

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 506 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:44 AM

PGI is losing players because of some that think they own the game.

#46 Johnny Z

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • 9,942 posts
  • LocationDueling on Solaris

Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:46 AM

View PostJeffrey Wilder, on 24 April 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

PGI is losing players because of some that think they own the game.


Really? Care to share this alternate reality? If your talking about trolls in game, they are far less successful than they assume.

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 April 2016 - 04:51 AM.


#47 James Warren

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 213 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:00 AM

View PostWill Hawker, on 24 April 2016 - 04:03 AM, said:

My issue atm is assaults are less tanky than lights, everything seems to favour lights but assaults can't take as much fire power as lights can both avoid and spread.

Which would explain why most people are queuing as lights? Or...
Assaults just get focused. They're big easy targets and people see them as a threat that can't be ignored.

In regards to the trailer, someone who wasn't already familiar with the game would have no idea what was going on if it showed 'average' game-play. I feel like they mostly showcased close combat so that the audience can actually see what's on screen in the little YouTube player.

MWO's trailers have always been a bit silly. Take for example the Pretty Baby trailer - the player is using a regular PPC at point blank range. Or the one that's already been posted with everyone flying down the hill while shooting. What's important to remember is that they aren't made for us - they're made for the uninitiated, so that we hopefully get more people to play with.

As stated previously, Mechwarrior has always been a bit of a niche game. The F2P market is fairly saturated and I don't think that will change from here on out.

Steam also has a reputation as a place to get games for cheap. They have sales fairly regularly, and the high price tag on the MWO packages seems out of place. I'm no marketing expert but I am a consumer of video games - and that high price for a relatively unknown game would be a big turn off. If anything I feel they should have a fairly cheap introductory package, then direct potential paying players to the normal web store.

#48 DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 519 posts
  • LocationBetween Type 1 and Type 2

Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:12 AM

The lack of a good rich lore filled story also doubling as a place to practice called single player / co-op is why we didn't retain our steam users.

>Why would someone that has zero interest in Battletech be ok with just PVP versing a bunch of old tryhards vets?
>Why would someone new subject themselves to loss after loss grinding for a mech they most likely find out wasn't comp worthy, thus feeling drained that they wasted a bunch of time getting a mech that is useless.
>Why would a new user with no attachment to Battletech spend $20-$80 on mechs let alone on mechs that aren't remotely competitive?

This is why I begged to have them to hold off on the steam launch.

#49 Jikil

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Covert
  • The Covert
  • 83 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:56 AM

I think the terrible learning curve this game has puts people off of it.

Close range battles that are fun to be in don't reflect the 2nd and most important phase of each match where the best trades win the match. Every meta mech build is catered to this type of play. The brawl only happens when your up losing or winning by 3-4 mechs.

I don't know how to fix this problem but adding shiny new mechs to fill up old men mech bays isn't going to drive new players to the game.

Maybe its time to revamp and add some new weapon systems? I mean laser warrior online is fun, but not so much if your just starting and getting roasted by them.

#50 Jaeger Gonzo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,219 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:10 AM

View PostMalorish, on 23 April 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

(...)
Mostly we sit under cover, come out for a split second, alpha strike the living crap out of some poor noob who made a tiny positioning mistake, duck back under cover, rinse and repeat. Oh sure, towards the end of matches there's a rush once one side has the numbers. And we all can recount that 10% of the time that a real brawl decides the game (rather than being a mopping up action).

But this game is nowhere to be found in Alpha Strike Warrior. Our mechs do far too much damage, from far too great a range, in far too bursty a window.

So people get tired of building brawlers, only to get wiped out before they even reach weapons range. They get tired of being obliterated when they make small mistakes in positioning or cover.

(...)


What you really want is 3025 Stock Mode. It provide everything that you mentioned.
So guys, better start lobbing for it.

#51 Johny Rocket

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 1,214 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:13 AM

OP its not the game its how the players play it.

#52 Mister Blastman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 8,444 posts
  • LocationIn my Mech (Atlanta, GA)

Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:18 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 23 April 2016 - 11:06 PM, said:

Also BTW theres a good chance MechWarrior may be one of the best games ever, or very near the best. Eventually. Posted Image Sure feels slow in being built. Posted Image


It isn't.

To come close it must live up to standards this high:



F4 has endured almost two decades and continues to get better and better. When you say best, you must properly acknowledge the real best so you know how high the bar is to climb. Anything else is hyperbole.

#53 Pilotshark

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 61 posts
  • LocationUnder heavy enemy fire

Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:32 AM

View PostMalorish, on 23 April 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

So we all know that Steam players are jumping ship on MWO. IMO, the biggest reason isn't balance (better, but not great . . . too many underperforming mechs), community warfare (getting better), or lack of new maps.

The problem is that the game doesn't deliver on it's advertisement. I mean, look at this awesome looking game in the Steam Advertisement below. The one where mechs battle at close, intense ranges in exciting combat!



Does this look like MWO? Not even remotely.

Mostly we sit under cover, come out for a split second, alpha strike the living crap out of some poor noob who made a tiny positioning mistake, duck back under cover, rinse and repeat. Oh sure, towards the end of matches there's a rush once one side has the numbers. And we all can recount that 10% of the time that a real brawl decides the game (rather than being a mopping up action).

But this game is nowhere to be found in Alpha Strike Warrior. Our mechs do far too much damage, from far too great a range, in far too bursty a window.

So people get tired of building brawlers, only to get wiped out before they even reach weapons range. They get tired of being obliterated when they make small mistakes in positioning or cover.

We all laugh at them and call them noobs, while we "smart" players stay hunkered down. Meanwhile MWO continues to hemorrhage "noobs" who are trying to play the game in the trailer above, but keep getting wiped out.

But really, wouldn't we all rather be playing the game in the trailer?

I would. . . .



I logged in just to agree emphatically with this well written post.

This is such an awesome game and i love it to the tune of several hundred dollars. The pinpoint front loaded alpha strike damage is still insanely high. it translates into just a few variations of the same cookie cutter builds on every chassis.

Edited by Pilotshark, 24 April 2016 - 07:45 AM.


#54 Alan Davion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Determined
  • The Determined
  • 2,333 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:37 AM

View PostMalorish, on 23 April 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:

If it was up to me, we'd cut all weapon damage in half (or double armor and structure values, whatever floats your boat).

Then we'd shorten a lot of weapon ranges (maybe everything except machine guns). Finally, we'd need to double the ammo/ton to make sure missile and ballistic systems keep pace with energy weapons. (I'd also standardize ammo around a damage/ton number, but that's another topic and another post).

I don't know how you get rid of pinpoint convergence that translates into fun gameplay. I've seen the proposed systems in the forums, and they're terribly unintuitive or complex, IMO. I think we could live with pinpoint convergence (which people expect in a FPS style game) as long as you can't unleash ungodly amounts of damage with a push of a button.


I don't know where you've been, but armor/structure values have been doubled in this game for several years now, since about the time of the end of closed beta to the beginning of open beta I think.

That is to say doubled over their tabletop values because the whole point of the TT values is based on the random dice rolls determining where on the mech you hit. Where as here, you can hit literally the exact spot on the enemy mech you want to hit with 100% accuracy 100% of the time.

That is the biggest problem with MWO over the TT. It is just too easy to hit your target.

I agree with you on shortening the weapons ranges. We need to do away with the whole "Maximum/Optimum" range BS here. Make all weapons current "Optimum" range their "Maximum" range. That would shorten up engagement distances considerably, and at that point you could start decreasing weapon damage bit by bit to find the sweet spot for this game.

However, your third point here, about convergence... I don't know what FPS games you play, but literally every FPS game I've played has had some sort of recoil induced cone of fire mechanic that encourages aiming down sights and burst firing your weapon.

I do not agree with your assessment here. MWO needs some sort of cone of fire mechanic to introduce some element of randomness back into the game. Exactly how it's introduced is up in the air, as not all weapons would be affected by it. LRMs and SRMs come to mind in this case, as they're already random enough as it is, spreading damage all over the enemy mech just by sheer fact of all the missiles hitting different spots on the mech.

ACs and Lasers are where the randomness would mostly come into play. Obviously IS ACs would be affected the least as they fire one shot, wait a few seconds, fire again. This is pretty much equivalent to the sniper rifle or designated marksman rifle out of the Battlefield series.

If anything the Clan ACs would probably feel the affects of the cone of fire mechanic more, as they all fire multiple rounds, with the exception of the Clan AC/UAC2, which only fires one round. This would be a good case for making IS ACs function like they are in lore, in which they fire multiple rounds, like they did in all other MechWarrior games as well.

Making all ACs fire multiple rounds would allow for better balancing on both sides, Clan and IS.

The lasers are where things get incredibly tricky.

Introducing a straight-up cone of fire mechanic to lasers could potentially cause them to just fire wildly all over the place, at least depending on the mech. This is particularly true of mechs where the lasers are mounted in the arms, as we've all seen how mech arms bounce and wobble about in the game, yet the lasers still fire with pinpoint accuracy.

On this particular subject I am open to suggestions on how to introduce a cone of fire or other mechanic to lasers that doesn't come off as contrived and convoluted... What am I saying? Every attempt to balance this game so far has been contrived and convoluted to some degree.

#55 kesuga7

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Challenger
  • The Challenger
  • 1,022 posts
  • LocationSegmentum solar - Sector solar - Subsector sol - Hive world - "Holy terra"

Posted 24 April 2016 - 08:29 AM

PGI will always have the $$$ whales who spend up-wards of 500$ on this game Posted Image
Don't worry bout steam

#56 SplashDown

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Slayer
  • The Slayer
  • 399 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 08:48 AM

Would removing the aiming recticle fix this?

#57 Coolant

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,079 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 24 April 2016 - 09:09 AM

Umm, there is combat like that some of the time. Those are the mechs in game, with the weapons in game, on maps in the game. I wouldn't want non-stop brawl every match or in CW.

#58 Aresye

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Heavy Lifter
  • Heavy Lifter
  • 3,462 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 09:10 AM

View PostMarack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 April 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

Dude... if we were to play by TT rules entirely then the Inner Sphere mechs would be the most outdated things in history. Seriously. If we are going by TT rules then Clan mechs are basically Gods with the Timber Wolf Prime producing a whopping 86 damage, with way better heat regeneration, tons of armor, and the speed of a medium mech. We put it in with those rules and basically Clan mechs are the only things we would see outside of CW. Basically Clan tech in TT is more advantageous in almost every regard but heat, but Clan double heat sinks take up less space so you can just plop more on there and there isn't a problem.

I am tired of people comparing this game to TT. STOP IT. This game is trying to be its own thing. Stop being a bunch of ******* and trying to equate it to other games in this IP and universe. Single players DO NOT equal a MMO.

Dude, where the hell did I say anything about TT or Clan/IS balance in my reply?

#59 S 0 L E N Y A

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,031 posts
  • LocationWest Side

Posted 24 April 2016 - 12:57 PM

Citation for loss of steam players?

Honest question
No anecdotal BS please.


#60 Trauglodyte

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,373 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 01:00 PM

Pin point convergence is only a problem in that we don't have a means by which you make it worse. Bear with me here, if we had an actual functioning heat scale that caused your mech to move slower and impacted convergence, would it be a problem that we had, if you're standing still, a system where you could put 100 points of damage onto the pin of a head at 2000m? No, that wouldn't be a problem because the instance in which you could do that would be so rare that it wouldn't matter. The problem is that I can run around at almost 170kph at 99% heat and put all of my alpha damage onto the pin point of a head at any range I want. THAT is the problem. Fix that and you've got an entirely different game. I'm not even talking about CoF because, quite frankly, I've never much liked that concept. But, what I will say is that adding in HUD fade out, reticle shake, sluggish movement, and a system that makes your returned distance to target actually increase, thus creating a heat based CoF that isn't what a lot of people are pushing, would make that game a lot more bearable, would increase TTK, and would put the thought process into the "thinking man's shooter".





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users