197 replies to this topic

[The Flame]

I mean, thats the entire purpose of omni mechs. So you can have several changeable loadouts on one design. You want that? Play clan. Pgi is rewriting battletech to fit their needs whenever they see fit.

[Foxwalker]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 23 April 2016 - 10:49 PM, said:

Folks, this isn't rocket science.

The reason that peek-a-boo alpha strike style fighting is the preferred way to play is it is by far the most effective way to play.

Why is it effective? Because terrain can absorb damage with no penalty.

Why can the terrain features do that? Because they're 1) mostly INDESTRUCTIBLE, 2) simply GIGANTIC and 3) found EVERYWHERE. The ubiquity of giant mech size terrain features in MWO allows our walking robot game to be played like any other first person man sized cover shooter.

For example, why do the trees on forest colony need to be the size of the Empire States building, exactly? Why are most of the rock formations the size of Ayers rock in Australia? Why are we fighting in basically the Grand Canyon half the time?

Imagine how glorious a match would be if it took place on a completely, totally flat field with both sides spawning within a few hundreds meters of each other at the beginning. Either landing by dropship or coming out of a dense fog etc. Some mechs would charge straight into the brawl. Others would pull back to get into optimum LRM/gauss range. There would be movement and dispersal rather than death blobbing and hiding.

.

Humm, most matches last less than 10 minutes out of 15, with a few very quick 4-6 minute matches. I am pretty sure, without cover, your suggestion would most likely end up with most matches averaging well below 5 minutes. More like 2.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

If I were completely honest, Id say they lose the steam players because this game is extremely repetitive and shallow. Hell the main reason Ive been playing this so much lately and not getting bored with it has less to do with the game itself and more to do with the fact that Ive been reading Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow and this game reminds me of the battleroom combat.

Thats really all thats been keeping me here for a while. FW is far too one sided to be fun for me, with too little reward to be willing to be the fodder for the unit's cannons. Hell the second time I even tried one of the new modes, it just tacked me against four guys from one unit who just ran streakboats and murdered the rest of us. Fun for them I guess.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Foxwalker, on 26 April 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Humm, most matches last less than 10 minutes out of 15,

And 8 of those minutes is people cowering behind cover

[mogs01gt]

Mister Blastman, on 23 April 2016 - 10:32 PM, said:

We can't get rid of it--so we must change the armor system to something that makes it a hell of a lot harder to poke through it in a single spot.I've made posts about this before and am too tired to explain but essentially you take the left torso for instance, and turn it into six or nine separate armor boxes, each with full value and if you want to poke through to torso, you must melt them all or aim well enough to take out one of those nine and then unload all firepower through that small hole to do damage to internals.Of course... assaults might get nine boxes, heavies might get six, mediums might get four and lights might get two to balance things out.It'd work.

This!
You are also describing how armor actually works in lore, which is way more balanced than MWO. You have to hit the same spot multiple times to get into the internal workings of a mech.

The Flame, on 26 April 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

I mean, thats the entire purpose of omni mechs. So you can have several changeable loadouts on one design. You want that? Play clan. Pgi is rewriting battletech to fit their needs whenever they see fit.

The main reason Omnimechs existed was because Clans believed in not wasting anything in their economy. That means, if a mech's legs were destroyed, you could simply attach legs from another mech. It really didnt have much to do wtih customization until later down the road in Clan lore.

Edited by mogs01gt, 26 April 2016 - 10:35 AM.

[NocturnalBeast]

mogs01gt, on 26 April 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

This!
You are also describing how armor actually works in lore, which is way more balanced than MWO. You have to hit the same spot multiple times to get into the internal workings of a mech.


The main reason Omnimechs existed was because Clans believed in not wasting anything in their economy. That means, if a mech's legs were destroyed, you could simply attach legs from another mech. It really didnt have much to do wtih customization until later down the road in Clan lore.

In a BattleTech campaign, OmniMechs can change their loadouts between battles with a mobile repair vehicle, while non-OmniMechs could only change their loadouts at a well equipped base, or Mech factory and only if the parts / skilled technical crew / money was available.

PGI needs to make it very rare for IS / non-OmniMechs to be able to change their Mech's loadouts in FW (maybe your unit would have to occupy a planet with a Mech factory?).

Edited by Ed Steele, 26 April 2016 - 11:04 AM.

[Beartech]

My favorite line in that trailer. "A thinking mans shooter".

Lol I would totally play the game in that trailer but no, we have "alpha convergence strike warrior online"...

[wanderer]

Quote

Regular gameplay should be in stock mechs

Which thanks to MWOs divergences from TT are generally trash. The few that aren't will then utterly dominate regular gameplay.

[Nastity Choblereaper]

The reasons steam players are leaving is simple: there is no first player content.

When I saw the first MWO trailer, I was super excited and thought "Finally!!!!! Mechwarrior 5!" Turns out out it's just another cover based shooter, and there are already a ton of those.

Also, since someone mentioned it, while there is certainly a big skill component to Brawling/mid-range combat, and even a skill component to effective lrm use (not just hanging back and shooting rocks/buildings, but keeping pace with the team and firing from the 3-500 meter range, using backup weapons to help focus nearby targets, even sharing armor when necessary), it doesn't take skill to hill hump/peek around corners.

While I'm at it, this game definitely rewards time/money investments, just look at the mech skill tree, to make any mech really viable you need to elite 3 variants, which represents a huge time investment (or money). Also, modules cost GXP, which is gained through repeated gameplay (time investment) or by converting MC (money investment). and if you wanna master a variant? gonna need to elite 2 more chassis, which means a lot more time/ money invested. You're also gonna have to buy more mech bays.

I like the idea of randomly generated maps as that would reward role warfare, info warfare, and aggressive play instead of memorization and repetition. Perhaps have faction specific quirks to add some variety to mech selection.

It might also help if the you could learn how to play the game in-game, instead of scouring the internet for advice. Just my random thoughts. I'm still playing though, so they have to be getting something right

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 April 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

real reason? Steam retention is almost always staggeringly tiny since it is specifically meant to cater to the ADHD generation?

Add that to being a niche title with a comparatively small playerbase, and Steam was never going to turn MWO in WoW.

*shrugs*

Nothing wrong with being on Steam, but if people think chasing the casual and esport unicorn is the answer to what ails the MW franchise, they aren't particularly versed on the history of the game IP to begin with.

MW will succeed when it becomes a storydriven, campaign, PVE/Coop game. MW always was better with a storyline, a campaign and some coop, company of mechs action.

PVP is always just about w/e meta, I played MW4 PVP for a few minutes. I came in with my standard built Stone Rhino, I rolled in with an Annihilator, I came in with my Black Heart.....I quickly came to realize, im not playing the meta, I better go home. every game was Black Knights and StoneRhinos with JJ and PPCs, with HEAT turned off.

MW is always more fun in the campaign, even after playing it like 20 times over, I still found the MW4 campaign fun. Only thing I woulda loved to do, is mod it up with different mechs just to see how it plays different. MWO would actually be amazing if it had a Men of War style GEM Editor, and let us build PVE missions. Endless replayability.

[Lugh]

Ed Steele, on 26 April 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

In a BattleTech campaign, OmniMechs can change their loadouts between battles with a mobile repair vehicle, while non-OmniMechs could only change their loadouts at a well equipped base, or Mech factory and only if the parts / skilled technical crew / money was available.

PGI needs to make it very rare for IS / non-OmniMechs to be able to change their Mech's loadouts in FW (maybe your unit would have to occupy a planet with a Mech factory?).

They refuse to place such strictures on gameplay, citing them as 'un-fun'. God forbid actual STRATEGY enters the mix.

[NocturnalBeast]

Lugh, on 27 April 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

They refuse to place such strictures on gameplay, citing them as 'un-fun'. God forbid actual STRATEGY enters the mix.

Yes, I know, because it would drive away casual "STEAM" players...wait a minute...

[mogs01gt]

Ed Steele, on 26 April 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

In a BattleTech campaign, OmniMechs can change their loadouts between battles with a mobile repair vehicle, while non-OmniMechs could only change their loadouts at a well equipped base, or Mech factory and only if the parts / skilled technical crew / money was available.

That was not the original intent. Typically, Clan mech pilots either set their mech's hardpoints to their liking or were forced to change it by their superior officers to fit the needs of a particular battle.

The original purpose is to limit waste. If one mech is inoperative and another needs an arm, they swap it. The Clans did not have the inventory that the IS had regarding mech availability. They(clans) would deem that wasteful.

Edited by mogs01gt, 27 April 2016 - 08:01 AM.

[SoulReaver7500]

Jeffrey Wilder, on 24 April 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

PGI is losing players because of some that think they own the game.

PGI is losing players because they screwed up the game

[SoulReaver7500]

Mainhunter, on 25 April 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

Then try partnership and dating sites, you would be surprised how the girls you found stunning on her pictures look in reality And stop voting skirmish!

Skirmish is the only mode that matters

[Tru3insanity]

Wanna know why im probably going to leave this game after just a few hundred battles? I got bored. That simple. I never played tabletop so i dont care about that but i did play mw2-4 and this game pales in comparison to those. Theres no depth. You get a pitifully small choice of weapons and while you get a bunch of mechs, without the weapons theres not an ounce of fun in building the mechs. All the fun for me in the old days was finding a new mech and spending a massive amount of time building it until im satisfied. Thats the only reason id leave as a new player. Im not getting slaughtered, i dont care about TTK i dont care about meta, i dont care about any of that. I care that for a game that consists entirely of arena pvp there is next to no variation in what builds i can run and what builds my enemy can run and so the combat is stale and boring and repetitive.

[Lyoto Machida]

Pugno Divinitatem, on 27 April 2016 - 10:51 PM, said:

Wanna know why im probably going to leave this game after just a few hundred battles? I got bored. That simple. I never played tabletop so i dont care about that but i did play mw2-4 and this game pales in comparison to those. Theres no depth. You get a pitifully small choice of weapons and while you get a bunch of mechs, without the weapons theres not an ounce of fun in building the mechs. All the fun for me in the old days was finding a new mech and spending a massive amount of time building it until im satisfied. Thats the only reason id leave as a new player. Im not getting slaughtered, i dont care about TTK i dont care about meta, i dont care about any of that. I care that for a game that consists entirely of arena pvp there is next to no variation in what builds i can run and what builds my enemy can run and so the combat is stale and boring and repetitive.

I hope more players like you leave (nothing against you personally). It might alert PGI to the fact that whatever they're doing isn't working.

[bLeeat]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 April 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

real reason? Steam retention is almost always staggeringly tiny since it is specifically meant to cater to the ADHD generation?

Add that to being a niche title with a comparatively small playerbase, and Steam was never going to turn MWO in WoW.

*shrugs*

Nothing wrong with being on Steam, but if people think chasing the casual and esport unicorn is the answer to what ails the MW franchise, they aren't particularly versed on the history of the game IP to begin with.

steam has turned into an xbox community, but lets adress the real probalem.... pgi.... they have dragged us along for how long? and failed on the game they promised us. what are you defending? these mofos still confused about balance and want to have a championship? the winners dont even matter.. they gonna be winners of a broken system..

[LordKnightFandragon]

bLeeat, on 27 April 2016 - 11:33 PM, said:

steam has turned into an xbox community, but lets adress the real probalem.... pgi.... they have dragged us along for how long? and failed on the game they promised us. what are you defending? these mofos still confused about balance and want to have a championship? the winners dont even matter.. they gonna be winners of a broken system..

Yeah, ive watched a few videos of clan fights....its pretty much nascar around and around and around in a big blob, nuking anything that isnt blobbed up, the team that blobs the best wins. Its almost like FPS Starcraft II zerging.

[Bishop Steiner]

bLeeat, on 27 April 2016 - 11:33 PM, said:

steam has turned into an xbox community, but lets adress the real probalem.... pgi.... they have dragged us along for how long? and failed on the game they promised us. what are you defending? these mofos still confused about balance and want to have a championship? the winners dont even matter.. they gonna be winners of a broken system..

I defended PGI where?

Oh that's right, I didn't.