81 replies to this topic

[Wiley Coyote]

I had a game the other night on Grim Plexus where we started on the western side and a guy on VOIP suggested we swing around to the hill in D5/6. Seemed like a reasonable idea, he wasn't bossy about it, and pretty much everyone listened and moved that way. He seemed to think we'd "surprise" them with this. I was unfortunately in front in an Enforcer and as I got to the area (with most everyone else close behind), standing beside the fluid container on the hill, was an enemy BJ. We stared at each other for a second, then I targeted and fired. He fired back and withdrew. Then the guy on VOIP with "the plan" began bitching and moaning about how this had messed up everything. After that, I stopped listening and did what I felt like (and sometimes involves a little Leeroy Jenkins). And the guy continued to complain. We lost but I had decent damage. I stuck around til the end to watch our glorious "leader" die last in his Dire Wolf and do a grand total of 151 damage after not ever really being in the fight.

If someone is calling targets and giving sensible help to the team in a not-bossy sort of way, damn right I'm going to listen. But if it doesn't go our way, it's how they act then that dictates whether I continue to listen or not. I've been in many games where guys call out stuff and we lose but nothing bad is said other than "We should of done y instead of x." And I've been in some games where guys lose their **** if their directions aren't followed and effective and we still win.

Either way, I just try to help out as much as I can until I'm dead or the other team is. If no one calls anything, I just pick a group to stick with and try to focus any bad guys with them.

[man du]

Wiley Coyote, on 27 April 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

If someone is calling targets and giving sensible help to the team in a not-bossy sort of way, damn right I'm going to listen. But if it doesn't go our way, it's how they act then that dictates whether I continue to listen or not. I've been in many games where guys call out stuff and we lose but nothing bad is said other than "We should of done y instead of x." And I've been in some games where guys lose their **** if their directions aren't followed and effective and we still win.

Either way, I just try to help out as much as I can until I'm dead or the other team is. If no one calls anything, I just pick a group to stick with and try to focus any bad guys with them.

I will say stuff like, Well, looks like they shot straighter than us this round. We'll gettem next time.

[sycocys]

I fixed the problem (for myself only) by never dropping into the pug queues. The only times I even bother to log on at least 6-8 of my unit are online.

Not that I hate new or unskilled players or anything, I just genuinely don't enjoy playing with them on either side of the match, so I don't even consider playing outside of NA prime hours. I also don't enjoy playing with random people so I stopped even looking at the TS hub, if people aren't logged into our chat program when I have time to play I just do something else.

Edited by sycocys, 27 April 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[Gravitas]

Logged in just to like this post/thread and compliment the OP. Well said.

[LORD ORION]

Gigliowanananacom, on 25 April 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

So you know I've posted some stuff about matchmaker. I decided to stop complaining about it entirely; and then I decided to literally follow the developers instructions on how to play MWO.

I realize now that because I have a high PSR, I dont get to relax and have fun during times when tiers are mashed together.

So basically, at night, or during weekends, you can play with tier 1 experienced people and not have to worry about carrying your weight too* much(That's the fun time) these guys are the same skill level, and you can rely on them. Some of the best players I see play around 11pm - 4am Eastern US time.

But during times when the population is nice and diverse, you could possibly be the only tier 1 experienced player on the team. And the matchmaker put you there as part of a balancing act. Therefore you are not aloud to dink around and rely on others. Its time for maximum performance. And its time for coordination, and input.


My game play experience has changed dramatically since I started playing by this philosophy

I used to ***** and moan about how I would get grouped with "lemmings," now I realize that the reason I lose with these teams is because the matchmaker expects me to give my input to the team, and help coordinate. Basically becoming as involved as possible. That's because I'm an tier 1 experienced lego piece to the matchmaker.

I can't remember the last time I had a bad match, If you start giving input, then you build a reputation, people will recognize your name and they will listen.

I am very satisfied with matchmaking.

I dug this out from about a week ago. Its easily missed. I am not looking for attention, I am not trying to get a fashion show going here; with me as the starring ******. I really really want this game to succeed. I wasn't sure if my post was important, but people have asked me about it more than once during in game matches, So I am bumping it.

No,

1) Determine if there are lemmings on the other team you can trounce by being upfront
2) Determine if your team is full of potatoes and you need to use them as meat shields to get your 250 point minimum to stay equal in PSR when your team is going to be humiliated.
:
Accept it for what it is... practice against bad odds, so when you're playing FP and are the last man standing in a wave, you can do some decent damage before you go down.

[TheLuc]

the msg from the OP reads like those 45min ads on TV, can we just play the game, how many just go by their own drum, go Leeroy Jenkins and what not.

Marketing tricks don't work and never did, well with me that is.

Edited by TheLuc, 27 April 2016 - 07:09 AM.

[Lugh]

TheLuc, on 27 April 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

the msg from the OP reads like those 45min ads on TV, can we just play the game, how many just go by their own drum, go Leeroy Jenkins and what not.

Marketing tricks don't work and never did.

Bold statement is incorrect. If marketing tricks did not work there wouldn't be an entire advertising / marketing sub strata in all of business. How well you market and set expectations therein, is a measure of how successful you can become.

[prox]

As an avid solo pugger, here's a couple of thoughts:
Communication - first and foremost, matchmaking exists, but only on a very rudimentary level. It's quite easy to assess the outcome of a match by looking at the team composition at start of a match, since the playerbase is small enough to memorise names of reliable and experienced players. Usually, with a better team composition, little to no communication is required (players seize opportunities for a push, UAVs get shot down without asking anyone to do so, heavies position to cover assaults on a crap spawn etc), and at the same time, players react quickly to sparse information in chat. On the flipside, if your team consists of jonnyrandom271 and xX3l1t3sn1p3rXx, you can expect to lose if your team doesn't follow a uniform plan, and these teams are unlikely to listen to external advice.

Yet, no reason to give up trying tho. There might be a couple of unknown players that are working their way up to t1 that are genuinely interested in teamwork or players you don't know because they usually play in another timezone, and the minimal effort for relaying very top level information (nothing more complex than "uav c3" "d3 inc") will sometimes be rewarded.

There's one positive aspect of matchmaking with the PSR system: I would assume that both the old elo based MM and the PSR MM try to match for a 50:50 outcome. While elo rating is theoretically uncapped, PSR is capped at a quite low level (I know a lot of players with maxed out t1 bars, and unsurprisingly their skill level varies a lot). So if you are an experienced player that is capable of pulling your weight, you will get a higher w/l % than during elo MM times, i.e. you will be rewarded more often for carrying than under the old MM system. Good times imo.

No idea what's going on with group q MM tho, it seems to enjoy putting all MRBC div A players on the left side and SWOL rating D- players on the other, so everyone in the match gets a similar lame experience?

Edited by prox, 27 April 2016 - 07:24 AM.

[TLBFestus]

I admire the OPs seemingly inexhaustible supply of optimism, but unfortunately i don't share it.

I've been in far too many drops where myself, a buddy, our small group, announce a "plan". Nothing difficult, a simple, "Meet up at J10" only to have the group trundle off randomly to die, to have too much faith that if we keep saying it they will learn.

Some times other players wander off and get killed then use VOIP to berate everyone else, the classic "Thanks for not supporting me idiots!". We aren't the best, but we tried, and we rarely chirp back.

OK..the other night one of my group got mouthed off at and he literally ripped the guy a new one on VOIP. Well deserved and hilarious.

It's nice when you do get in a PUG drop and a couple of players make suggestions. You know when you hear several good replies that you at least have a plan, have a chance, but it's not going to change others. There will always be the loner, the other group that knows better (and they probably did) where teams are just not going to work together.

The game is unforgiving and often once you go down a couple of mechs, the roll begins as players just kind of "give up" for that match. It's a shame because those "we were down 3 and won!" battles are always the best.

[MechWarrior319348]

TheLuc, on 27 April 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

the msg from the OP reads like those 45min ads on TV, can we just play the game, how many just go by their own drum, go Leeroy Jenkins and what not.

Marketing tricks don't work and never did, well with me that is.

Well I'm quite sure you can play the game, why do you ask? I'm also confused as to why you would come here looking for "ads" instead of playing the game. I didn't come to you; you came to me.

TV's dont follow you around the house and give you suggestions, you have to go to the TV.

I'm very confused about what you are asking.

[MechWarrior319348]

LORD ORION, on 27 April 2016 - 06:36 AM, said:

No,

1) Determine if there are lemmings on the other team you can trounce by being upfront
2) Determine if your team is full of potatoes and you need to use them as meat shields to get your 250 point minimum to stay equal in PSR when your team is going to be humiliated.
:
Accept it for what it is... practice against bad odds, so when you're playing FP and are the last man standing in a wave, you can do some decent damage before you go down.

Wonderful, now I know that I shouldn't listen to you in game.

Keep up these kinds of posts, we are all curious to know who the bad leaders are; that way we can sift through the bad plans in game.

Not trying to be a ****, but I couldn't think of another way to word this.

Edited by Gigliowanananacom, 27 April 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[KodiakGW]

I'd love to have a solo PUG team listen to me, really I would. But, how many times do you have to tell people in a Skirmish or Assault game to form on the assaults before moving forward (especially Mining Colony)? How many times do you have to remind people to KILL, THEN CAP when you you get Frozen City or Canyon Conquest? How many times do you have to tell lights to not run off and get themselves killed in the first 2 minutes of the game.

Give you a hint, the majority people don't learn from their mistakes. That is why we keep repeating history as a species. That is why certain players will continue doing the same stupid crap every game.

I've tried to help on comms and chat. I've been ignored. I've been told I'm an idiot for doing it the way that leads to a win 90% of the time. I've had someone telling me how to shoot before I shut them down on comms. Only to see that they did 68 damage in a TBR to my 492 in a CDA. I've actually been team killed by a moron who didn't like me putting symbols on his mini map. Guess what, the rest of the team won. Consider that I did zero damage because I refused to return fire on him, and he was killed by the rest of the team and did zero damage to enemy mechs. Why? Because everyone had moved to where I was to kill the other guy and had the better position.

PSR is an XP bar. It has no relation to personal or cooperative team playing skill. Until they fix that, solo PUG will never change.

So I'll continue doing what I always do when I decide to play solo PUG. Form on the assaults, flank, spot, and try to do as much damage while the rest of my team hides in a corner rocking back and forth repeating "This is not happening..."

[MechWarrior319348]

Hmm. I wonder If they should add a few features directed at that experience bar you see in the mechlab.

Maybe they should have a little mini guide (possibly with videos) attached to the bar. It would be separated into 5 sections, with each section discussing why you are in that specif tier (estimate of common problems for that tier). And what areas you should focus on next. The experience bar (tier bar) needs to move a hell of a lot faster as player performance improves. Its simple, it should be a reflection of your learning experience. Like an RPG game. It should not be used to group players against each other. They need a separate bar for that. This would mean that eventually, every player would become tier 1. If a player is below that, then we would know they are learning. Its kind of like when you see a "student driver" sticker on the back of a car. I also believe that the tier numbers should still be private if the player wishes.

We should not view the tier system as a skill meter, but rather a meter that shows how close you are to having a solid grasp of the concepts of the game.

I have no idea how they would organize the actual "skill" meter (if there was such a thing).

-Wait... I guess that would be the "PSR" system.

Edited by Gigliowanananacom, 27 April 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[Sleeper Service]

As a new player who hasn't stepped into fw, I really appreciate it when someone starts calling the drop. It makes the game much more enjoyable.

The majority of the time it also seems to result in a win for the team.

[MechWarrior319348]

Sleeper Service, on 27 April 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

As a new player who hasn't stepped into fw, I really appreciate it when someone starts calling the drop. It makes the game much more enjoyable.

The majority of the time it also seems to result in a win for the team.

It doesn't hurt to ask questions either, dont be afraid of ******** who might make fun of you. There are those of us who will defend you, and happily answer your questions.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

adamts01, on 27 April 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

I had to take a couple months off from MWO. I was getting way to worked up from weeks and weeks of being the only one or two tier 1s on my team and always having to carry.

see, this is why after the Steam launch, and the new players we should go 1 tier for matching. So that the tier 1s can be matched with 1 or 2 and their owm skill levels

(lol)

[MechWarrior319348]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 April 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

see, this is why after the Steam launch, and the new players we should go 1 tier for matching. So that the tier 1s can be matched with 1 or 2 and their owm skill levels

(lol)

This thread is less about "tier matching" and more about what experience means. I know tier 4 players who are basically tier 1 players, and I know tier 1 players who should be tier 4 players.

Also It is about communication and input, something that is transparent across tiers.

I made a thread a while back about tier match ups that became really messy. We've already gone over that subject.

Edited by Gigliowanananacom, 27 April 2016 - 05:54 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gigliowanananacom, on 27 April 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

This thread is less about "tier matching" and more about what experience means. I know tier 4 players who are basically tier 1 players, and I know tier 1 players who should be tier 4 players.

Also It is about communication and input, something that is transparent across tiers.

I made a thread a while back about tier match ups that became really messy. We've already gone over that subject.

the lol was meant to translate into the sarcastic tone it was meant to be taken in because we STILL dont have the population to actually DO that

[adamts01]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 April 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

the lol was meant to translate into the sarcastic tone it was meant to be taken in because we STILL dont have the population to actually DO that

What we do have enough players for is having 3 tiers instead of 5 and having everyone play their own tier. That would tighten things up a bit and be less of a burden on MM. I'm also not being all elitist about it, I just want to play as part of a team and not constantly lose unless I carry. I'm not even good, it's just that most players are that bad, and they shouldn't be mixed up so terribly.

Gigliowanananacom, on 27 April 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

This thread is less about "tier matching" and more about what experience means.

Those terms are pretty interchangeable, you even switched them in your title. Re-word everything I said with "experienced player" instead of "tier 1" and the argument stays the same. Being the single "experienced" player on your team means you need to carry. That turns the whole things in to a solo game, which some people like, but I absolutely hate.

[Sir Wulfrick]

This is the main reason why I hate playing in the solo queue. Outside of dedicated actual comp matches I play games to unwind after a usually stressful day at work. MWO doesn't allow any distinction between the two situations other than organised matches outside of the match maker environment.