138 replies to this topic

[GonaDie]

Alan Davion, on 26 April 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

That's because it pretty much is all F***ing random.

There's no strategy, no planning, just either form a death ball or a firing line and focus fire until the enemy is dead.

I would not be the least bit surprised if people started leaving in droves once HBS' Battletech game gets here.

While I could disagree that the tactical part is completly random, the mech balance is.
Why the hell would a sane person nerf a Catapult or a Vindicator?And why did it take so long to make flamers usable? And why in the name of Keresnky we have those stupid C-AC placeholders?!

[Alan Davion]

Afuldan McKronik, on 26 April 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

Its here so it needs to be balanced for what we have.

Yeah, and the sad thing is our balance overlord Paul seems incapable of making proper decisions when it comes to balance between the two factions.

[Hit the Deck]

But one nagging question remains about MRMs in MWO: do PGI have to follow the number of tubes (number of missiles fired at a time) closely with what is visually shown on the 'Mech? If yes then MRM40 tubes would be f-kin UGLY and huge on any 'Mech, or no 'Mech could fire more than 20 missiles at a time, which would make MRM30 and 40 disadvantageous compared to the lesser variants.

[Alan Davion]

GonaDie, on 26 April 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

While I could disagree that the tactical part is completly random, the mech balance is.
Why the hell would a sane person nerf a Catapult or a Vindicator?And why did it take so long to make flamers usable? And why in the name of Keresnky we have those stupid C-AC placeholders?!

The flamers I can't comment on as I've never, ever used them in any MW game... Except maybe once or twice in the old MW2:Mercs, it was very easy to make your enemies overheat and kill them from ammo explosions.

That tactic was ESPECIALLY useful for the Solaris contract.

The Clan ACs were introduced when the Clans were first introduced as placeholders for the Clan LBX autocannons, which were supposed to be able to switch from buckshot to slugs like what the IS have... Only whoever was programming it supposedly just got up one day, said "F*** this shite" and just up and left, and no one has dared touch it since.

That's the rumor that's been going around since shortly after the Clans were introduced that is.

The nerfing of the Catapult I'll agree with, it's a good, solid mech right out of the gate, but the Vindi....It's okay, but it's definitely needed help from the start, not getting whacked with the nerf bat again and again.

Hit the Deck, on 26 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

But one nagging question remains about MRMs in MWO: do PGI have to follow the number of tubes (number of missiles fired at a time) closely with what is visually shown on the 'Mech? If yes then MRM40 tubes would be f-kin UGLY and huge on any 'Mech, or no 'Mech could fire more than 20 missiles at a time, which would make MRM30 and 40 disadvantageous compared to the lesser variants.

How the hell is that any different from the situation with LRMs? You hardly ever see LRM15s or 20s mounted on mechs these days, most often it's LRM5s, and occasionally a couple LRM10s, but that's about it.

The way I see it, they'd have to make MRM30/40 look like LRM15/20 and just fire off 2 bursts of missiles.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Either limit tube count so two volleys of 20/10 or 20/20. Or the other option is have a launcher bigger than a Locust on your mech.

[mark v92]

Hit the Deck, on 26 April 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Yeah, people have mentioned MW:LL system before when the subject of MRMs was brought up. Maybe you were one of them.

Anyway, according to the TT ruleset (which we don't necessarily have to follow very closely), MRMs have a +1 to hit penalty. I think the main reasoning behind it is that it's hard to land rockets at such ranges so we don't need to prenerf MRMs because the difficulty to hit is perfectly simulated in an FPS game (MWO).

I think we just need to make the missiles fly faster (maybe around 800m/s - double the speed of SRMs) so they would be somewhat useful at their intended range. The fluff reason is that by removing the guidance system and that a single MRM does half the damage of a single SRM, the designers just made MRMs fly fast(er).

Or, we could do the MW:LL way if it's proven to be more fun.

That couldve indeed been me before.

I like the ones from MWLL because they are different. They arent simply bigger and longer range versions of the srm in that game. They actualy need a bit of a different playstyle because of the fly by wire.

Fly by wire creates this little game of you trying to guide the missile to the enemy and the enemy trying to avoid getting hit.
A little bit more than click, fire and pray.

Tonnage is more, cooldown could be longer, missiles could fly slower to balance it and to discourage players that want to take it for pure brawl.

Gives it a bit more flavor i think.

perfect for a weapon system that is inbetween lrm's and srm's.

thats the reason i would go for that system

Edited by mark v92, 26 April 2016 - 08:59 AM.

[GonaDie]

Alan Davion, on 26 April 2016 - 08:55 AM, said:

The Clan ACs were introduced when the Clans were first introduced as placeholders for the Clan LBX autocannons, which were supposed to be able to switch from buckshot to slugs like what the IS have... Only whoever was programming it supposedly just got up one day, said "F*** this shite" and just up and left, and no one has dared touch it since.

I mean really, why not get rid of them?That crap is just noob bait.There is NO, I repeat NO reason to run those over Ultras.

Why?

Also, while the Catapult was a good mech, IMO it was not good enough to deserve a nerf.

[Hidden Sniper]

I just hate how little you can put on IS lights, and some of these ballistics and energy options might open up a lot of possibilities for them. It's a common joke that lights are pretty much not good for any role (with a few exceptions, like a NARC raven).

Edited by Hidden Sniper, 26 April 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[Alan Davion]

GonaDie, on 26 April 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

I mean really, why not get rid of them?That crap is just noob bait.There is NO, I repeat NO reason to run those over Ultras.

Why?

Also, while the Catapult was a good mech, IMO it was not good enough to deserve a nerf.

Actually, while the standard Clan ACs are a bit heavier than the Ultra ACs, they run cooler and will never jam on you. You might not have quite as much ammo as the UACs, but I'd take never jamming and running cooler any day of the week.

[Wintersdark]

Alan Davion, on 26 April 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Actually, while the standard Clan ACs are a bit heavier than the Ultra ACs, they run cooler and will never jam on you. You might not have quite as much ammo as the UACs, but I'd take never jamming and running cooler any day of the week.

only the 10 and 20 are cooler. Jamming is a non issue, uac's only have a chance to jam when you doubletapping: they never jam under normal firing.

And the cac10, while cooler, also cycles slower than the cuac10. It's just bad. It's not like the cuac10 is a hot weapon when not double tapping.

[Tom Sawyer]

Sadly there are many of these threads. One of my own buried in here somewhere.

However this is PGI. Russ only communicates via twitter it seems.

We have a lot of dreamers in here. But we also have a lot of doers. Gamers who have created maps for other games who could do so for this one. Programmers who have offered assistance. And dreamers such as myself who want things that often lead to the doers going why not?

To me PGI's only response has been Our Way and would you like to buy a mech pack.

[Wintersdark]

GonaDie, on 26 April 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

I mean really, why not get rid of them?That crap is just noob bait.There is NO, I repeat NO reason to run those over Ultras.

Why?

Also, while the Catapult was a good mech, IMO it was not good enough to deserve a nerf.

You can make an argument for the CAC2, because unlike all the other uac's, doubletapping a 2 gets you lower overall DPS, and the CAC2 has slightly longer range.

As to why not get rid of them, probably because it's somewhat complicated as people own them and they're presently equipped in mechs. Yeah, yeah, I get the potential solutions, I'm not stupid, but those increase the cost of doing it (time, potential bugs, etc) whereas leaving them in place doesn't really do any harm.

Except for being noob traps, but that applies to a lot of thibgsb(all LBX weapons, etc)

[Metus regem]

Quote

Ultra 2/10/20 - Why aren't they in game? UAC20 alone would make HBK-4G downright scary. Same firing solution as all other IS AC, one shot, one pellet.

LBX 2/5/20 - Why aren't they in game? I know the current implimentation are kinda weak, but they should be there as a choice for IS.

No real issues here, would be nice if they gave LB’s the ammo switching they should have, even if all they did was make a second weapon with the same name but with [solid] or [cluster] at the end, as well as make ammunition to match.

Quote

Light AC - Longer range, lighter AC, no brainer power creep? No, because this isn't TT, blah blah fluff blah, Light AC carry less shots per ton of ammo. Allows lights to carry a ballistic at the cost of ammo count, dakka boats could bring them but end up either ammo starved or carrying so much ammo in crit slots that it would explode upon loosing any armor.

Slightly shorter range, same ammo per ton, less crit spaces and less weight, why bring normal AC’s when the Light AC does everything it does for less weight? Unless they finally get around to giving normal AC’s the special ammunition they should have, AP, tracer, precision and incendiary would be the best choices for normal AC special ammunition.

Quote

Light Gauss - Same as light AC, more range and less tonnage. These could be the gauss rifles that explode when looked at. Make regular gauss have the standard weapon HP, so you can bring a light gauss that will explode, or a regular that might last through component destruction. Plus light gauss do less damage.

Smaller, lighter, more ammunition per ton, but nearly half the damage for just over 90m more max range…. Not a fantastic trade there.

Quote

Heavy Gauss - shorter range, higher damage. Kind of balanced already, might make for a wonderful mid range or brawler. Very few shots per ton of ammo if its imbalanced.

The Heavy Gauss has built in drop off… but let’s be honest, they would use the Improved Heavy Gauss, both invalidate the AC/20 for the most part, 22dmg/round 90m less max range than the normal Gauss for slightly fewer rounds per ton (4 in TT, likely 7/8 in MWO) at the cost of 11 crit spaces and 20t

Quote

Silver Bullet Gauss - Multiple gauss rounds? Sign everyone up! Nay, these spread shots like LBX, but higher damage per pellet.

Same grate LB flavour, now in 15 pellet spread!

Quote

ER lasers - IS versions of Small and Medium. Why haven't they been added. Extra range for extra heat.

No problems here, although it would mess with the current laser balance right now…

Quote

XPulse - IS regular range, much higher damage. No point to not bring them? Nay, heat, long burn times and tonnage per laser balances these.

X-SPL and X-MPL are not bad, about 1 heat for 1 damage exchange, but the X-LPL 1.5 heat per damage is a big case of no thanks! We also lack infantry or Power Armour troops to really use their special qualities.

Quote

LMG - Lighter ballistics, lower damage.

HMG - Slightly heavier ballistics, lighter than AC2, damage in between MG and AC2.

Machine Gun Arrays - For mechs that are hardpoint starved for ballistics but want lots of MG. 4 MG Clan and IS, same weight, just shoved into one ballistic slot. Limit the amountt that can be placed onto a mech so we dont get Array Boats.

No issues with that, but some mechs like the Piranha are MG boats….

Quote

RAC - Rapid fire autocannons. Why bring ultra when you can bring RAC? Have RAC jam chance start higher past one shot, and each shot brings the jam chance higher. Risk vs reward, it COULD out DPS an ultra, but if RNG hates you, it jams after second shot anyways. Balance this like the flamer heat cooldown so people don't macro abuse them.

Yes please, I don’t care how unbalanced they will be, I just love the visual effect of Clan UAC’s, but I hate how inferior they are to IS AC’s….

Quote

IS Streak 4/6 - Again, no brainer. Why haven't they been added?

No problems here with them being added.

Quote

MRM - Fires like SRM, Longer range. Balance with worse spread and don't let them be affected by Artemis. Plus these things are huge and heavy. Picture a Cats ear twice the size for a 40 count MRM-40.

I can hear the calls of Hit Detection problems now!

Quote

Inferno SRM - What a wonderful weapon to use against heat heavy Clan mechs. Ammo switching is a nono, do the MW4 Mekpak route and add these as seperate launchers. Low damage, but acts like you are getting hit by a Flamer per missile hit for a few seconds. Effective, trolly, and actually a great counter for IS vs hot Clan mechs. Not a perfect solution, as normal SRM can launch these missiles, but a step forward.

I was never really a fan of these in TT, a lot of heat, good chance to blow up in your face when running hot…

[Afuldan McKronik]

The light AC has the balance written into it. Give it less ammo per ton. HGR could be balanced if we had knock downs or literally 4 or 5 shots per ton of ammo.

[Gyrok]

I had a post about this and moving the timeline forward and bringing in all the new tech.

[Metus regem]

Gyrok, on 26 April 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

I had a post about this and moving the timeline forward and bringing in all the new tech.

Yes you did, and I agreed with most of it, just that you made the X-LPL's too good.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Gyrok, on 26 April 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

I had a post about this and moving the timeline forward and bringing in all the new tech.

Ah crap, sorry. My bad.

[Hit the Deck]

Afuldan McKronik, on 26 April 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

... HGR could be balanced if we had knock downs or literally 4 or 5 shots per ton of ammo.

HGR is actually not that good because it takes 11 slots (which means STD and ST mounted only), plus the short-ish range. 'Mech carrying it are slow, can't deliver long range punch, and not that great at short range either (charge up and has longer CD than AC/20 most probably).

Improved HGR Metus Regem mentioned could be straight up better, but at 20 tons a piece....

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

I guess the real question for this is what advanced tech is allowable in the current year of the game? Because the timeline seems to be the ONE rule from fluff or story that CANNOT be crossed in this game. Which to ME anyways seems pretty crazy given all the other things that have had to been dumped by the wayside so far.

[Alan Davion]

Metus regem, on 26 April 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

No issues with that, but some mechs like the Piranha are MG boats….

I personally cannot for the life of me understand why anyone wants the Clan Piranha mech in this game.

Especially considering that only 1 out of the 4 canon variants is actually timeline appropriate. PGI would have to create at minimum 3 other variants and they would likely turn into, 1, a laser boat, 2 a missile boat, and I have no idea what the third could be seeing as they'd already have the laser/ballistic/missile variants covered.

That being said, the Piranha 1 machine gun boat would be next to useless unless PGI inflated the number of laser hardpoints the mech has, and at that point, why the F*** bother boating machine guns anyway? You just turned it into another bland as F*** laser vomit cookie cutter meta mech.

Get someone to force Paul to make machine guns actually F***ing useful again, then we can talk about your machine gun boating Clan mech. Until then, we've got a million other possible problems to fix and easily several dozen other, more unique mechs to add to the game.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 26 April 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

I guess the real question for this is what advanced tech is allowable in the current year of the game? Because the timeline seems to be the ONE rule from fluff or story that CANNOT be crossed in this game. Which to ME anyways seems pretty crazy given all the other things that have had to been dumped by the wayside so far.

Any other time you'd probably be right, but remember the stink people made when the Kodiak 3 was listed among the available variants for that mech?