118 replies to this topic

[Roadkill]

KodiakGW, on 05 May 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

Locked 300XL engine - So max speed will never be more than 69.66 KPH (Speed Tweak).
4 locked JJ in the legs, and no ability to add more - 4 tons.
Only 5 free slots in the torsos - Most of your free slots are in the arms.

The thing is, you don't really need more than 5 slots in the torsos. That'll hold a CUAC/10 which is probably what most of 'em are going to carry there anyway.

I don't see any real reason to buy the Hero. All it gives you are the torso omnipods, and those are 2B or 2M. 2B is basically useless with only 5 slots, and it can't carry enough other missiles (or move fast enough) for the 2M torso to be a concern.

The reinforcements are less obvious, but I don't really see a reason to get that pack either. All it buys you is the 1E CT, but that just allows you to run 9E instead of 8E and that many energy implies small lasers that aren't as useful on a slow 64.8 kph chassis. Energy builds are likely to rely on CLPL and CERML, and you can't manage the heat of 8E with those weapons let alone 9.

So it's looking like just the standard pack or possibly the Collecter pack if you like the extra doodads.

Still... 2 x CUAC/10 + CUAC/20 is viable and pretty scary...

[Zordicron]

After looking at this thing a bit more.....

This is going to be the clan version of the Mauler in play IMO. Probably similar firepower, but also similar mobility. Less armor, but JJ instead.

That's not a bad thing, I mean, I like my Maulers......

[Hit the Deck]

Lord0fHats, on 05 May 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

...PGI probably noticed, which might be why they stacked the fixed slots in the side torsos XD

PGI just copied the crits distribution from the TRO.

Lord0fHats, on 05 May 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

You have the tonnage (and heat) to manage 2 Guass, 2 LPLs, and 1 ML.

Not with enough ammo. It has 37.5 tons of free tonnage with max armor (actually with 2 pts of armor shaving).

[Nikki Kerensky]

DovisKhan, on 05 May 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

heh funny how subjective these things are, to me it's the only Clan mech beside MDD that is not ugly, main reason i chose IS over Clan was because all Clan mechs were ugly to me

Heh true. To me it's just a hunk of metal. I tend to like them a bit sleeker. Then again, I do like Warhawks, so it's not like I'm even consistent.

[Lily from animove]

Not very impressed, because soem serious downsides:

No gauss in Sidetorso possible.
Laserbuilds will run hotter than the TBR, due to less DHS in the engine. And the fixed JJ's together with the lower engine will not make it possible to run the Gyr as cool asthe TBR DHS wise. So all the additional hardpoints for E's just increase its hotness not being able to compensate for.
Also, Hillhumping works better when having more speed, which is lower than TBR. So it will have to act rather much like a turret or Jumpsniper most of the time to take advantage over this. and when it really gets the laserheatsink quirks, it will on some maps have a disadvantage, while a slight advantage on others. But I think we have more cold maps in Invasion than hot maps.

However its a nice mech for some advanced dakka the TBR can't do that good. due to some tonnage restrictions and unremovable Engine DHS.

[Widowmaker1981]

Lily from animove, on 06 May 2016 - 05:09 AM, said:

Not very impressed, because soem serious downsides:

No gauss in Sidetorso possible.
Laserbuilds will run hotter than the TBR, due to less DHS in the engine. And the fixed JJ's together with the lower engine will not make it possible to run the Gyr as cool asthe TBR DHS wise. So all the additional hardpoints for E's just increase its hotness not being able to compensate for.
Also, Hillhumping works better when having more speed, which is lower than TBR. So it will have to act rather much like a turret or Jumpsniper most of the time to take advantage over this. and when it really gets the laserheatsink quirks, it will on some maps have a disadvantage, while a slight advantage on others. But I think we have more cold maps in Invasion than hot maps.

However its a nice mech for some advanced dakka the TBR can't do that good. due to some tonnage restrictions and unremovable Engine DHS.

1) Its been said, its not an energy mech due to lack of space to mount DHS - its a Dakka mech, the first the Clans have had since the Dire - as such the speed is less of a problem, because dakka =/= peeking

2) There are two hot, two cold and two normal maps in invasion.

[Lily from animove]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 May 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

1) Its been said, its not an energy mech due to lack of space to mount DHS - its a Dakka mech, the first the Clans have had since the Dire - as such the speed is less of a problem, because dakka =/= peeking

2) There are two hot, two cold and two normal maps in invasion.

whats the second hot one next to sulfurous?

[Widowmaker1981]

Lily from animove, on 06 May 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

whats the second hot one next to sulfurous?

Vitric Forge.

Boreal Vault = Cold
Sulphurous Rift = Hot
Hellebore Springs = Medium
Grim Portico = Cold
Emerald Tiaga = Medium
Vitric Forge = Hot

[Lily from animove]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 May 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

Vitric Forge.

Boreal Vault = Cold
Sulphurous Rift = Hot
Hellebore Springs = Medium
Grim Portico = Cold
Emerald Tiaga = Medium
Vitric Forge = Hot

thx, wow i think the entire time I ony played that map like 1 out of 10 matches or even less. I had only one times vitric forge so far out of the 22 Invasions I made in this event. just RNGesus? Or does this map has a lower% in the rotation.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 May 2016 - 05:52 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Lily from animove, on 06 May 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

thx, wow i think the entire time I ony played that map like 1 out of 10 matches or even less. I had only one times vitric forge so far out of the 22 Invasions I made in this event. just RNGesus? Or does this map has a lower% in the rotation.

Actually one of my favorites. That building complex is freakin' amazing to brawl in, and the outside was PGI's first real use of negative terrain features being so heavily utilized which makes it both an open area and full of cover.

[adamts01]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 May 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

Vitric Forge.

Boreal Vault = Cold
Sulphurous Rift = Hot
Hellebore Springs = Medium
Grim Portico = Cold
Emerald Tiaga = Medium
Vitric Forge = Hot

Do all these maps have canyons and gates like the original maps?

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 May 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

1) Its been said, its not an energy mech due to lack of space to mount DHS - its a Dakka mech, the first the Clans have had since the Dire - as such the speed is less of a problem, because dakka =/= peeking

Should be able to do dual gauss plus lasers pretty well. The art has the arms at a reasonable height, so hop tarting with dual gauss should be alright.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 06 May 2016 - 06:36 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 May 2016 - 06:35 AM, said:

Should be able to do dual gauss plus lasers pretty well. The art has the arms at a reasonable height, so hop tarting with dual gauss should be alright.

2 Gauss, 1 LPLas, and 3 ERMLas with 5 tons of ammo fits. Just 12 DHS, but when your main guns are Gauss, it doesn't matter much. Plus the Gauss + 1 LPLas is basically neutral. 5 tons for two gauss is usually enough in normal games, but when the backup firepower is basically 2/3 of a lazvom build, it is probably more than what is needed, reasonably speaking.

After that variant, I am, for certain, making a 4x UAC5 build, but I'm still debating on 10 tons of ammo and no lasers, or 8 tons of ammo and two ERMLas in an arm. Obvious triple UAC10 variant, but, again, debating on exact ammo amount vs the benefit of a couple backup lasers. I still feel like a 5-6x UAC2 variant is a must, however. I mean, really. The mech screams for it.

Edit:

It still scares me that these sorts of loadouts fit on a heavy mech. That said, it is very much my kind of mech. I said it before, but I think the Clans come into their own when their mechs operate at a level similar to one weight class above themselves. I am excited about this mech almost as much as I'd be excited for the Nova Cat or Huntsman.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 May 2016 - 06:48 AM.

[Roadkill]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 May 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

I am, for certain, making a 4x UAC5 build, but I'm still debating on 10 tons of ammo and no lasers, or 8 tons of ammo and two ERMLas in an arm.

9 tons of ammo for 4 x AC/5 on the Black Widow seems about right for me. I run out of ammo very occasionally, and usually get below 25%. So I'm not wasting much (if any) tonnage on excess ammo, but I have enough for all but the longest Quick Play games.

Which means that 8 tons of ammo for 4 x CUAC/5 on the Night Gyr won't be enough. If I can burn through 9 tons occasionally with plain old AC/5s, then I'll do it regularly with CUAC/5s. The 10 ton/no ERML loadout seems more likely to be successful to me.

3 x CUAC/10 also sounds good, though I'm considering 2 x CUAC/10 + CUAC/20 instead. Both 10s in the same location is brutal (see: Orion IIC-C), and then you can put the CUAC/20 on the other side for brawling. Boom Jager, basically, but half the cycle time (due to Ultra) and no Ghost Heat. It will probably also work with the CUAC/10 in the torsos because the mounts are higher, but you really have to experience two of them in the same location at least once in your career. It's basically an AC/20 that fires almost 4x as fast.

[Raso]

So I have been thinking.... if the side torso will be filled to capacity with fixed structure slots and UAC10s and the legs are going to be crammed full of JJs that leaves ammo to be placed in the head, CT and arms. BUT Since you'll likely want to CT and head for back up lasers that leaves that out as an option so you'll likely default to the arms. That said, the arms are big a meaty so they'll likely make for good shields except for the fact that you're keeping all of your ammo there. This makes me wonder if using those ST ballistic slots will actually be worth it, or not....

[Gas Guzzler]

Raso, on 06 May 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

So I have been thinking.... if the side torso will be filled to capacity with fixed structure slots and UAC10s and the legs are going to be crammed full of JJs that leaves ammo to be placed in the head, CT and arms. BUT Since you'll likely want to CT and head for back up lasers that leaves that out as an option so you'll likely default to the arms. That said, the arms are big a meaty so they'll likely make for good shields except for the fact that you're keeping all of your ammo there. This makes me wonder if using those ST ballistic slots will actually be worth it, or not....

Well you don't need backup lasers, so I had planned on putting ammo in the CT, 1 ton in each side torso, some in the arms, and one in the head. If you really need backup lasers, you'll have a free arm that you can use for both the 4 UAC5 build and the 3 UAC10 build, so put the lasers in that arm.

[Widowmaker1981]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 May 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Well you don't need backup lasers, so I had planned on putting ammo in the CT, 1 ton in each side torso, some in the arms, and one in the head. If you really need backup lasers, you'll have a free arm that you can use for both the 4 UAC5 build and the 3 UAC10 build, so put the lasers in that arm.

indeed, and it has left sided ballistics, which helps because of the ammo usage order being right -> left. Ammo placement for this should be manageable, if not ideal (the twin gauss build is going to have issues if it loses the left side, since thats where the remaining ammo is going to be.. especially if you use a head laser.)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 06 May 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 May 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

indeed, and it has left sided ballistics, which helps because of the ammo usage order being right -> left. Ammo placement for this should be manageable, if not ideal (the twin gauss build is going to have issues if it loses the left side, since thats where the remaining ammo is going to be.. especially if you use a head laser.)

Okay I keep getting this mixed up. I was actually under the impression left side ammo was used first, I thought it was CT, left torso, left arm, right torso right arm, legs, head

[Raso]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 May 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Well you don't need backup lasers, so I had planned on putting ammo in the CT, 1 ton in each side torso, some in the arms, and one in the head. If you really need backup lasers, you'll have a free arm that you can use for both the 4 UAC5 build and the 3 UAC10 build, so put the lasers in that arm.

That'll work with a CUAC5, though. A pair of ST mounted CUAC10s (which I so want to run) would take up all free slots in that ST. I might just have to stick to using the UAC10s on the Kodiak and run UAC5s on the Night Gyr...

[Gas Guzzler]

Raso, on 06 May 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

That'll work with a CUAC5, though. A pair of ST mounted CUAC10s (which I so want to run) would take up all free slots in that ST. I might just have to stick to using the UAC10s on the Kodiak and run UAC5s on the Night Gyr...

They won't though, you will have 1 free slot in each. cUAC10s are 4 slots.