147 replies to this topic

[Stoneblade]

Question to the OP: Will the change be tested or just rolled out live to seem effective?

[wanderer]

Ylca, on 03 May 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

Hi wanderer, i'd like to apologize as i am the one whom you saw bringing urbanmechs and lrm equipped lights (the panther a light set with ppc quirks, jump jets for mobility, but an arm that is almost impossible to miss in combat holding most combat capability).

You weren't the one who brought a -stock- Urbanmech.

With the 60 rated engine.

That came later.

You also weren't the one who brought a Commando armed only with an LRM 5 and TAG.

Those are builds that make babby jeebus weep. Your laser/MG one was a perfectly decent build for an Urbie.

[Koniving]

Widowmaker1981, on 03 May 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

open that realism can of worms and it ends with deciding none of this makes sense in the first place. Its a game, gameplay comes first.

Considering the mech sizes and where they are supposed to be... Then that the ranges are "accurate ranges" in which a gunner is "expected to be able to hit a target of at least 10 meters in size (vertical or horizontal) without undue difficulty." We can easily already open the can of worms of realism and find it not that far fetched. At least for Battletech. For MWO it's completely bonkers but this is because "Accurate range" became "Full damage range."

Ranges going beyond those get small penalties to accuracy but not damage, moving or the target moving also affects chance to hit but not damage. These are all meant to demonstrate the increased difficulty in hitting something. ACs are stated to have ranges of up to "Several kilometers"... but states that t is "unfair to expect" a gunner "to hit a target as small and agile as a Battlemech at these ranges."

The 105mm cannon on the M1A1 has an effective range "in excess of 2,500 meters." So that's in realistic territory. Considering the state of disrepair mechs are supposed to be in, it isn't surprising that the range would be a bit less, particularly when expecting a humanoid machine to make hits in the middle of combat.

Also note that the cannon is a single shot, with up to 4 seconds to reload but requiring quite a bit more than that for an ultra long range stealth kill.

Mech Rifles, such as the 190mm Heavy Rifle, deliver a total of 9 damage. But being a single shot weapon as opposed to BT's 2-100 shot autocannons and tougher armor to deal with, it only does 6 damage. This at a range superior to AC/10s and AC/5s at an effortless 810 meters. The only weapon that competes with that accuracy is the ER PPC. BT mechs? Burst and auto-fire autocannons similar to Germain tanks as depicted here. Notice how despite perfect pinpoint, the reticule bounces with every single tilt of the terrain and shock of the suspension?

Much realism in BT.
....Not so much MWO.

Edited by Koniving, 03 May 2016 - 07:41 PM.

[La Jefa]

Long Tom is such a bad mechanic due to the head shot instant kills, which needs to be removed.
Long Tom dropping every 2 minutes is too much, make it at least every 5 minutes.

[Requiemking]

Honestly, I really wish PGI would buff the other Clan Mechs. I mean, why does IS get all the fancy toys? They not only have more mechs to choose from, but their trial mechs don't suck the big one. Even the Locust, which is at best used as an intel gatherer/ ninja, easily ROFLStomps both Clan Light trials and even stands a fairly good chance against the mediums. SRMcrows? Pfft, they can't see me long enough to get a lock on me when I am using the Locust 1E (C) Trial. I would use Clan trials, but in Quick play they are outclassed by the IS trials and in CW I only ever use the Lights and the Shadow Cat trial. I do run the Warhawk trial in invasion, but mostly use him as the team buttshield (Hey, someone's gotta protect the rear of the team).

(FYI: If your wondering why I am using Trial mechs, its because I was stupid with my C bills before the Clan mechs became available for them.)

[Rushin Roulette]

Stoneblade, on 03 May 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

Question to the OP: Will the change be tested or just rolled out live to seem effective?

PGI will do its best to test this patch with their usual level of testing capacity.

[Golden Viper]

Rofl.....what i see now ? IS butheart only. STFU and fight.

[avenger cannon]

I don't understand why it's so hard to implement scaling damage that applies to every section of the mech's armor while dealing no internal damage.

Why would the artillery strike of a single large round damage the head of a mech and not the rest of it without a direct hit? :|

300 damage in the 100 meter kill zone, completely stripping tons and tons of armor from the mech
and then scaling down from that.

Requiemking, on 03 May 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

Honestly, I really wish PGI would buff the other Clan Mechs. I mean, why does IS get all the fancy toys? They not only have more mechs to choose from, but their trial mechs don't suck the big one. Even the Locust, which is at best used as an intel gatherer/ ninja, easily ROFLStomps both Clan Light trials and even stands a fairly good chance against the mediums. SRMcrows? Pfft, they can't see me long enough to get a lock on me when I am using the Locust 1E (C) Trial. I would use Clan trials, but in Quick play they are outclassed by the IS trials and in CW I only ever use the Lights and the Shadow Cat trial. I do run the Warhawk trial in invasion, but mostly use him as the team buttshield (Hey, someone's gotta protect the rear of the team).

(FYI: If your wondering why I am using Trial mechs, its because I was stupid with my C bills before the Clan mechs became available for them.)

The Commando, Trebuchet, and Vindicator aren't that great bud.

[ThatGuy539]

wanderer, on 03 May 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

You weren't the one who brought a -stock- Urbanmech.

With the 60 rated engine.

That came later.

You also weren't the one who brought a Commando armed only with an LRM 5 and TAG.

Those are builds that make babby jeebus weep. Your laser/MG one was a perfectly decent build for an Urbie.

lol LRM5 Commando. That's one I've never seen. I did see an LRM Locust once, ages ago. He had no armor, to make room for the ammo I suppose. And the dual gauss Cicada who overheated constantly and seemed to have the smallest engine installed as he turned and moved like a snail. Meh, it's fun to see crazy builds sometimes.

FW is going to be a mixed bag. Noobs and Pros. It kind of keeps it interesting in Scouting.
Sometimes you get the pro in the mastered Locust who wrecks face, and sometimes it's a brand new player who can't aim, overheats all the time, and/or has a crappy build. You can usually figure it out pretty quick, but until you do you can't ignore them.

Had a guy on my side last night who just watched as me (beat up Arctic Cheetah) and a guy in a reasonably fresh BlackJack went at it. The BJ was the last guy on their side, and the two of us were the only left on our side. (Pretty sure the other guy had a fresh Arctic Cheetah).
The BJ was down to a cored CT and LT and weak leg armor before he took off my remaining weapons. Then he ignored me and focused on the other guy who up until then just took the odd shot while standing off to the side. After I lost the weapons I kept trying to distract the BJ and also ramming him. I lost a leg, but did do a bit more damage to him as well. The dead guys were giving the other Cheetah directions like telling him to zoom out. We lost.

I looked towards my teammate a few times during the fight to see what the heck was going on. We could have easily killed that BJ together.

In the next mission I just happened to drop with the other 2 guys who were on my team that match, so we got talking about it. They said the other cheetah over heated almost with every shot, and at one point he just stood there and watched for a while as me and the BJ were fighting.

But....it didn't really bug me that much. Its a game, and this guy was obviously a new player. At least the guys were constructive with their directions and didn't rip him a new one.



Years ago I would play Quake Arena and Unreal Tournament during lunch at work. We had one middle aged guy who when he started didn't have a clue. He would run into walls and shoot at the ceiling as he had a hell of a time figuring out the keyboard and mouse movement and aiming. We would purposely ignore him at least 50% of the time so as not to discourage him from playing by killing him every 10 seconds. But about 2 weeks later he was kicking our butts, seriously. And that's saying something as some of us had years of experience and were very good.

We were all noobs at some point, and I try to keep that in mind. That and it's just a game. Games are for having fun, not for getting stressed out. There's plenty of other crap to get stressed out about.

[ThatGuy539]

avenger cannon, on 04 May 2016 - 03:50 AM, said:

The Commando, Trebuchet, and Vindicator aren't that great bud.

I agree with the Vindicators. I just can't seem to find a build that I like, and I have them all mastered. (which wasn't fun to do)
The weapon load-outs are just okay, but the speed is just too slow for the size and armor. These mechs take a fair amount of skill and luck to play well.

But the Trebuchets can be fun. They aren't my go-to mechs, but I don't get frustrated using them.

And the Commandos are one of my favorites. I can pull crazy numbers in all of them. Plus they are the fastest mechs in the game, and probably the most maneuverable too. Gotta get them at least elited though and put in the big engine. Speed is life in a light mech.
I found that they are super easy to level up too. The last two I bought took about two days to get from basic to Mastered...crazy fast.

[Requiemking]

ThatGuy539, on 04 May 2016 - 06:08 AM, said:

I agree with the Vindicators. I just can't seem to find a build that I like, and I have them all mastered. (which wasn't fun to do)
The weapon load-outs are just okay, but the speed is just too slow for the size and armor. These mechs take a fair amount of skill and luck to play well.

But the Trebuchets can be fun. They aren't my go-to mechs, but I don't get frustrated using them.

And the Commandos are one of my favorites. I can pull crazy numbers in all of them. Plus they are the fastest mechs in the game, and probably the most maneuverable too. Gotta get them at least elited though and put in the big engine. Speed is life in a light mech.
I found that they are super easy to level up too. The last two I bought took about two days to get from basic to Mastered...crazy fast.

Actually, when you said they are the fastest mechs in the game, didn't you mean to say Locust where you said Commando?

[Yukari Akiyama]

Could someone inform the IS players that bringing medium mechs in a scouting match is why they keep losing? IS players have plenty of lights that can outrun streak missile range.

[DivBy0]

Let us bring our own stromcrows and then we will see how skilled the Orbital Bombardment Clan Warriors are :-)

Edited by von Haudegen, 04 May 2016 - 03:39 PM.

[Yukari Akiyama]

von Haudegen, on 04 May 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

Let us bring our own stromcrows and then we will see how skilled the Orbital Bombardment Clan Warriors are :-)

Fine, then let us bring black knights, marauders and other IS weapons into invasion matches and we'll see IS babies cry about how unfair it is.

[Akillius]

Requiemking, on 04 May 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

Actually, when you said they are the fastest mechs in the game, didn't you mean to say Locust where you said Commando?

Pardon??? Allow me to clear up any max speed confusion.

The maximum possible speed and that's with the elited tweaks:
Commando 167.2 kph (except COM-2D variant 146.3 kph max)
Locust 165.4 kph
Spider 165.4 kph (except SDR-5D 148.0 kph and ANANSI 156.7 kph variants)

And for completeness the fastest clan lights are:
Jenner IIC 156.7 kph
Arctic Cheeta 139.3 kph

Edited by Akillius, 04 May 2016 - 04:36 PM.

[DivBy0]

Yukari Akiyama, on 04 May 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

Fine, then let us bring black knights, marauders and other IS weapons into invasion matches and we'll see IS babies cry about how unfair it is.

No problem! We can then bring our timberwolf, ebon jaguar, hellbringer, arctic cheater, hunchback II-C and stormcrows too. But without [Long Tom] and Sniping.. how will you win?

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:47 AM.
edited out vulgarity

[Yukari Akiyama]

von Haudegen, on 04 May 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

No problem! We can then bring our timberwolf, ebon jaguar, hellbringer, arctic cheater, hunchback II-C and stormcrows too. But without [Long Tom] and Sniping.. how will you win?

You need to up your skill if the Timberwolf or Cauldronborn are giving you problems while having access to IS mechs. A lot of clan players would opt to use IS mechs seeing how much mechs like the black knight benefit from the quirk system and quirks are virtually unheard for clan tech of or in some cases like the Timberwolf and others have negative quirks. IS lasers have faster damage and make them better suited to running gun lines during faction warfare. Clan LRMs are better, however LRMs are poorly suited in faction warfare for attackers.

That being said I think both factions should have access to either mechs. Inner Sphere used onmimechs when they were captured,salvaged or even sold from the clans themselves, and clans used older mechs when supply for ommimechs outstripped availability during the clan invasion from supply stores called "Brain Caches" that were stockpiled from the original exodus or simply recovered them from their occupation zones.

Lastly, did you ever think to not try to bring medium mechs to scouting matches? Every protect intel mission I played today, I encountered Griffons,Centurions, Shadowhawks and other brawler mechs trying to pick a fight during a mission where the goal is to not pick a fight and gather intel nodes, rather then locusts or other lights that can simply run and collect Intel. IS players can get longtoms, they just chose to whine on the forums instead of working for it in game.

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:48 AM.
Quote Clean-Up

[DivBy0]

I don´t fear timberwolfes or couldronborne... I like them. I think the couldronborn is the perfect killing machine in MWO.
And maybe the Black Knight is tankier... the timberwolf can do much more (Jump, SRM, UAC). I have some Clan mechs too and i like to play my Masakari (a underrated mech, IMHO), my MadCat and the Thor (summoner) is my absolut favor-mech. I do extremly well on it (another underrated mech, IMHO).

I have the most of the time the feeling, that the balance is OK. But by the mediums Clan have a edge. The stromcrow and the hunchback II-C (Laserboat) are the best mediums. This is annoying, but not the end of the world. But when this lead in Souting to [Long Tom]... that may not the end of the world, but the end of Invasion-Mode.

At the time everyone bring mediums to gathering, because of this stupid event. The pugs do what pugs do and the player who should known better must reach the event goals. Winning scouting with a Spider without Kill and Damage have no use for this stuping event :-( So they lose Protect and! Gathering.... more often then the Claner in the Stromcrows, which better fit both submodes (can deal great damage and runs around 105 km/h)

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:47 AM.
edited out vulgarity

[Falconer Cyrus]

It seems LT damage is appropriate now.

[ThatGuy539]

Requiemking, on 04 May 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

Actually, when you said they are the fastest mechs in the game, didn't you mean to say Locust where you said Commando?

Nope, I have all of the Locusts (and all the other lights too) in the game. The Commandos are slightly faster than the Locusts. And as far as I've seen, they are the fastest mechs you can get right now.

Locusts are also a blast to play.
My first 3 mechs in the game were Locusts.