75 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

And somehow someone at PGI is worried about the catastrophy a 6 MG spider could do to the back of an atlas.


OP is right... to some degree... and wrong to some degree at the same time.

I agree that high alpha laser puke is doing this game harm.
But...
The OP seems like he wants to roleplay a BT novel in the middle of a PvP match. He wants to march into the battle field and expects everyone to sh* their pants by the mere sight of a mighty KGC.... this is the part i don't agree with.

I hope PGI can come up with another bandaid to address the high alpha pukes,
but i also suggest the OP change his playstyle... I know its possible... I do it in completely non-meta builds ( read mixed load outs with minimum 3 weapon types)

Play tactical man. know your load outs and their range ( you won't be able to brawl wih gauss and ppcs)
expose sideways... make them waste their initial alpha on you non-essential components.

Edited by Navid A1, 04 May 2016 - 03:16 AM.

[adamts01]

Navid A1, on 04 May 2016 - 03:16 AM, said:

The OP seems like he wants to roleplay a BT novel in the middle of a PvP match. He wants to march into the battle field and expects everyone to sh* their pants by the mere sight of a mighty KGC.... this is the part i don't agree with.

That's a little bit of an exaggeration I believe. We should **** our pants when we turn a corner and come face to face with an assault though, but that isn't the case. A brawlerr Timby can knock off a Dire ST in a second, that's just stupid. And I'm even a light pilot saying assaults need a buff.

[Lances107]

I think you guys put too much emphasis on the small potatoes because the "boating" will more then likely have a downfall in the tournament. My reason for this is a boat is a one piece, one aspect mech, and this makes its susceptible to a certain kind of an attack. All lasers can be bombed with LRMS, all LRMS can be destroyed by a fast brawler, all acs can be bombed from a distance with LRMS. The funny thing is people complain about LRMs but they ensure that boating does not get out of hand. Also one sided LRM mechs tend to get blown to bits when the other team is correctly staying together and staying on the move. Whoever goes all the way this tournament, my guess is not going to be sporting one sided mechs in their team.

As for quick deaths believe it or not the biggest exploit in the game I have seen is chain firing, it lets you put a bunch of small weapons together, and just rip the other guy apart. Even though it was put in to help with heat issues, at least according to the game tips.

[Starbomber109]

adamts01, on 04 May 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

I think all lasers are pretty well balanced, not a single weapon is terrifying till you boat them. So the solution has to only affect boats. Like COF, or ghost heat.

But are they balanced VS other weapons? The AC 10 weighs 5 more tons than an LPL, does one less damage (at longer range) and requires a couple tons of amo to be effective through a match. The 'advantage' is the lower heat and the single component nature of the damage, however travel time can make getting that Damage on target a real pain. The rate of fire isnt all that different either. So in the end, the LPL is more damage per ton, at just the right range to still work out.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Almost 4 years into this game and the novelty is starting to wear off for me too.

At this rate, I might only have another 2...possibly 3 years left in me when it comes to this game.

Its a shame really.

[adamts01]

Starbomber109, on 04 May 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

But are they balanced VS other weapons? The AC 10 weighs 5 more tons than an LPL, does one less damage (at longer range) and requires a couple tons of amo to be effective through a match. The 'advantage' is the lower heat and the single component nature of the damage, however travel time can make getting that Damage on target a real pain. The rate of fire isnt all that different either. So in the end, the LPL is more damage per ton, at just the right range to still work out.

True. I was thinking of UACs. The AC vs UAC thing is a joke that I can't believe PGI hasn't fixed yet after all these years. There are some really under-performing weapons, but I think lasers are right where they should be. The CML is maybe a touch too good.

Lances107, on 04 May 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

I think you guys put too much emphasis on the small potatoes because the "boating" will more then likely have a downfall in the tournament. My reason for this is a boat is a one piece, one aspect mech, and this makes its susceptible to a certain kind of an attack.

Watch some tournaments that don't have any restrictions, and see what the winning teams use.

[Livewyr]

You're going to receive flaming from the people who like the game as it is. Just ignore them. I don't understand why they think the current combat mechanics fun, especially since the game has managed to find a way to make them clunky and overly simple at the exact same time. I think it's because they have difficult separating "victory condition" from "combat mechanics."

(Small explanation for them before continuing.)
Victory Condition: What you do to win. Mechlab builds, positioning, teamwork, etc...
Combat Mechanics: How you fight. Target reticle, leading, managing internal risks (heat, ammo),

I agree with the OP. Combat mechanics are broken, and dull. I haven't played with any amount of enthusiasm since January 2015 (and even then, it was only to play with a unit/small group of friends...the combat enthusiasm wore off in 2013)

The TTK is definitely way too low. I love playing the shadowcat, but the victory conditions for it are pretty simple: Don't get hit. (It can't take a hit from the 40-60pt pinpoint alphas without being crippled for the rest of the match.) The mechs that are DoA due to their hardpoint limitations, size, mech geometry and such are a direct result of boring and overly simple combat mechanics.

Edited by Livewyr, 04 May 2016 - 04:20 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

adamts01, on 04 May 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

I think all lasers are pretty well balanced, not a single weapon is terrifying till you boat them. So the solution has to only affect boats. Like COF, or ghost heat.

Besides the ability to boat them, isn't the other issue is how quickly those heavy power draw, long range/high damage energy weapon can fire again and again without any negative consequences until hitting that mech's max heat cap? Basically making it such that for many mechs there is no need to equip lower damage, shorter range weapons?

It was not part of the base boardgame/rules as everything happened in a 10sec span but FASA did introduce the Solaris boardgame that reduced the game down to 2.5sec turns where the base weapon delays(cooldown) came from. There the ERLL/LPL/ERppc had a 3-turn delay (7.5secs) before they could be fired again.

The cooldown+duration timers should be increased to around the GR so that those energy weapons are treated more like the GR, the main long range weapon but there is also a need for shortrange weapons. That would be a start.

Then an active instead of a passive heat scale, a scale where when a mech hits specific intervals the mech slows down in a similar manner as the current cXL penalty when a side torso is loss.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 May 2016 - 05:00 AM.

[adamts01]

Tarl Cabot, on 04 May 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

Besides the ability to boat them, isn't the other issue is how quickly those heavy power draw, long range/high damage energy weapon can fire again and again without any negative consequences until hitting that mech's max heat cap?

Alpha boats already suck up close. I don't think a longer cooldown will solve the problem, the early poking part of the game would just take longer. Sure cooldowns and heat could be tweaked a little, but I think it will take something radical like ghost heat 2.0, COF or something like that to change up the game.

[Coolant]

agree with OP, need new ghost heat mechanic replacement asap.

[nehebkau]

I was going to write something intelligent but stopped once I remembered where I was posting. Everyone lines up in their "get gud" and "TTK is too low" teams and hurl logical fallacies at each other.

[Mister Blastman]

YourSaviorLegion, on 03 May 2016 - 09:42 PM, said:

There's nothing wrong with the time to kill

And I'm the King of China.

[DeaconW]

Answer: End pinpoint damage. Give all weapons a spread or small distance separate random aimpoint from "center" when aimed as a group. But I've been saying that since Closed Beta...

[Felbombling]

TTK does seem low for a Mech combat game. Mechs, especially Assault Mechs, don't really feel like intimidating weapons of war. Russ said so in a Town Hall recently, and yet we have seen zero adjustments to address the issue globally, outside of quirk tweaks. It really is fascinating watching PGI and their snail-like reaction times to known issues. It reminds me of that frog in a pot analogy, where the frog will simply boil to death sitting in the pot of water as the temperature slowly rises.

[Gas Guzzler]

I dont have a problem staying alive.

If you are stepping out in front of multiple enemies you should be at least twisting your torso.

[Barantor]

Hey OP, you've probably already checked out of this thread since these forums can sometimes be full of the 'git gud' crowd, but I was wondering if you have a unit and tried grouping up?

One of the best assault pilots I know will lead the pack, but he does it with backup. Assaults seem like they would be the best to solo in and in random games they are to a point, then their speed starts becoming a big detriment to them the better you get.

I would suggest ignoring the forums and finding a good group to play in that has an active community and can back you up.

[Almond Brown]

YourSaviorLegion, on 03 May 2016 - 09:42 PM, said:

There's nothing wrong with the time to kill

As long as your the one doing the Killing it ain't.

[Alan Davion]

Almond Brown, on 04 May 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

As long as your the one doing the Killing it ain't.

Truer words were never spoken.

MWO is frankly pathetic in it's current state. I've been playing World of Warships way more over the last week, and been having literally a million times more fun.

With the sole exception of trying to grind through the Japanese Kawachi battleship. That thing is inaccurate as all hell, even though its guns can reach almost 10 km, you have to be no more than about 5 km to be able to hit with even 4 of the 8 shells you can fire from one broadside.

And people here complain about the 1 km range of LRMs or ERLLs? Really?

[Gas Guzzler]

Being able to count on your enemy missing makes a game easy, not harder.

[Novakaine]

Barantor, on 04 May 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

Hey OP, you've probably already checked out of this thread since these forums can sometimes be full of the 'git gud' crowd, but I was wondering if you have a unit and tried grouping up?

One of the best assault pilots I know will lead the pack, but he does it with backup. Assaults seem like they would be the best to solo in and in random games they are to a point, then their speed starts becoming a big detriment to them the better you get.

I would suggest ignoring the forums and finding a good group to play in that has an active community and can back you up.

Agreed find a good group and get to actually learn the nuances of the game.
There is a learning curve that frankly people fail to see.
I primarily run a Stalker 5M lrm boat or either a Orion lrm boat.
Both average mechs at best, but I have fine matches in them.
Hell I even got 7 kill match in a Hunchback J.
How do I survive running lrm boats.
A few simple points and I think applies to every mech in the game.
1. Positioning, if you lumber out in front of the whole enemy assault lance, it's your own fault.
2. Torso twist, a simple but highly effective technique.
Just last night I watched this guy in a Atlas just wade thru five mechs - that's five kill in a damn row.
Granted they were not fresh mechs, but that was one torso twistin fool.
3. Pay attention to your armor readout, if your armor is weak shift your damn tactics.
Fall back and let fresher mechs use their armor and use your long range weapons.
If your a short range brawler hang back and hit the ct red assault your team will thank you.
Come people use your damn noodles this ain't CoD.