57 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 05 May 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/game

Take it up with PGI, they're the ones that claimed assaults should be doing the most damage.

I find it Ironic that in the battlefield abilities section, that of the mech's pictured two are no longer available, and the other two are only MC mech's if the (I) variant of the Timberwolf is still available ?

But no, assaults are viable at all tiers, though less so than they used to be, since the Timby arrived on the sceen, and the rest had to be quirked hard to compete with it.

Edited by Cathy, 06 May 2016 - 12:58 AM.

[Malachy Karrde]

Ok gonna weigh in here. I am a Dire wolf pilot. I use it for cw and solo queue and also for Comp matches. In my opinion it's the best mech in the game. But that is based on using it pretty much exclusively and knowing how to get it to perform in any situation. It takes a week or two to become competent in lights, 3 weeks for mediums, a month for heavies, and half a year in assaults. The problem isn't the mech, it's the players. Most people want instant gratification, and they aren't getting it in assaults. It takes hard work and dedication to become an assault pilot. I don't even get bothered when I see a light coming for me, but I know how to position myself to pop a light like a pimple. If you aren't willing to get beat up or spend alot of time really learning to play, assaults aren't for you.

[Escef]

Cathy, on 06 May 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

I find it Ironic that in the battlefield abilities section, that of the mech's pictured two are no longer available, and the other two are only MC mech's if the (I) variant of the Timberwolf is still available ?

All the mechs are available. You just can't get the limited/reward camo/geometry anymore. You can still purchase a non-Loyalty AS7-S, and the Timber Wolf pack is still available, you can still get all the Prime(I) mechs... Which are mechanically identical to the regular Prime mechs.

Edited by Escef, 06 May 2016 - 06:50 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

Ted Wayz, on 04 May 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

Assaults are only viable when piloted by people who know how to pilot assaults.

Same goes for lights needing to be piloted by people who know how to pilot lights, and mediums by medium pilots and heavies...well anyone can pilot a heavy.

That's right...Hey wait one minute. Anyone can play a heavy? I can't use anything above 55 tonns.
Even my Quickdraw ain't fast enough according to my standards.

[TercieI]

Malachy Karrde, on 06 May 2016 - 04:36 AM, said:

It takes a week or two to become competent in lights, 3 weeks for mediums, a month for heavies, and half a year in assaults.

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Heavies are, by any sane measure, the easiest class to play capably. Lights and assaults are the most difficult, one or the other moreso for most pilots. I don't know a single top-level pilot that can't capably pilot a heavy or medium, but I know many who can't pilot either/both lights or assaults well.

Spleenslitta, on 06 May 2016 - 09:08 AM, said:

That's right...Hey wait one minute. Anyone can play a heavy? I can't use anything above 55 tonns.
Even my Quickdraw ain't fast enough according to my standards.

Then, bluntly, you're probably using speed as a crutch to cover your lack of map awareness and positioning skills. I did that for quite awhile, so I'm not judging, just observing.

Edited by TercieI, 06 May 2016 - 09:17 AM.

[Felio]

Lord0fHats, on 04 May 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Assaults mechs probably work better in some ways in CW than in normal que (the chance of being spawn rushed is very low). Clans don't use them because Clan assaults all suffer from the same two problems; they're sub-par, or they're very niche. Gargoyles can go pretty well in CW, but they're really only good at brawling. Dire Wolves can do well on defense, but they can't poke well and they're ungodly slow. Warhawks and Executioners are just sub-par.

And HGN-IIC is... not even worth mentioning? Really that bad?

[TercieI]

Felio, on 06 May 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

And HGN-IIC is... not even worth mentioning? Really that bad?

Yes. But EXEs are...not sub-par. They vomit lasers very well.

[Malachy Karrde]

TercieI, on 06 May 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Heavies are, by any sane measure, the easiest class to play capably. Lights and assaults are the most difficult, one or the other moreso for most pilots. I don't know a single top-level pilot that can't capably pilot a heavy or medium, but I know many who can't pilot either/both lights or assaults well.



Then, bluntly, you're probably using speed as a crutch to cover your lack of map awareness and positioning skills. I did that for quite awhile, so I'm not judging, just observing.

In my experience, lights are about the biggest crutch mech available. I had never used one before scouting came out and was reasonably competitive with it in about an hour. A week later I'm able to hang with pretty much any other light pilot. Yes, someone can slap lrms on a heavy and be able to be competitive, I'm talking chassis mastery, not being able to handle it "ok". There is a world of difference between able to hang in there and truly handling your chassis well. It's easy to start in a heavy or a medium, but to truly be good at it takes some practice, as opposed to lights.

[TercieI]

Malachy Karrde, on 06 May 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

In my experience, lights are about the biggest crutch mech available. I had never used one before scouting came out and was reasonably competitive with it in about an hour. A week later I'm able to hang with pretty much any other light pilot. Yes, someone can slap lrms on a heavy and be able to be competitive, I'm talking chassis mastery, not being able to handle it "ok". There is a world of difference between able to hang in there and truly handling your chassis well. It's easy to start in a heavy or a medium, but to truly be good at it takes some practice, as opposed to lights.

LOL. Most of the light pilots in Scouting suck, you realize that, right? Holding up against them is no indication of skill whatsoever. Lights are a crutch against bad pilots, maybe. To be even not insta-gibbed against good pilots is remarkably difficult.

Also, you weren't talking mastery, you were talking competence. I read that as skill floor, not skill ceiling, so which is it?

Edited by TercieI, 06 May 2016 - 09:27 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

TercieI, on 06 May 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Then, bluntly, you're probably using speed as a crutch to cover your lack of map awareness and positioning skills. I did that for quite awhile, so I'm not judging, just observing.

Naw...map awareness ain't the problem. It's rather that i got good situational awareness but i like going solo and infiltrating enemy territory to cause confusion and havoc.
Make the enemy constantly check behind them because i might be lurking there. Sadly the heavies just ain't fast enough for the job.
I need something faster than 100 kph with ECM for this kinda thing. +130 kph if without ECM.

Heavies draw too much attention anyways. I was trying for some light comedy...oh well.

[Yosharian]

KBurn85, on 04 May 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

This is pretty true, at least for me. In the other tiers, I had to ask others to stick with the assaults, and sometimes it wouldn't work. Lights will often bee-line towards to enemy side, and the rest of the team will chase after them, leaving the assaults in the dust to be killed. NASCAR seems much more common in lower tiers too. mediums/light like to use you as a shield, which is fine, other that they'll stand at your back and fire into your rear armour, and never let you reverse, especially on a ramp. Lots of whinging about how assaults should push, then you'll push alone and die, because they're too stupid/scared to follow you, then they'll whinge in <All> about how little damage you did. When you get ambushed by lights, they'll just ask you to hurry up, or leave you to die and NASCAR even harder. Lots of pointless kill stealing, standing in front of you when you've cored-out someone, the whining hardcore when they run into your lasers, often in <All> as they try to force you to apologise for their stupidity.

Playing assaults in tier 2 is far less frustrating, the team will head towards the assaults without being told, wait for them and support them properly, push together with you. Everyone gives you a wide berth, people play their role well, no blaming, much more high-level play. If you're good in thinking and positioning, your team will create plenty of situations where you can bring all your big guns to bear, which is really fun, as you melt away mechs. Your team will usually call out the mechs you cored but ran away. Rarely any kill stealing, and even if they do it, they rarely stand right in front of you in mid-laser shot. They'll usually stand behind you, or flank them.

So if you're thinking of getting an assault, get it earliest when you're about to finish off tier 3 for some practice in positioning and thinking, or you'll be in a world of frustration.

I can think of at least 3 assault builds off the top of my head that would absolutely destroy people, regardless of tier.

[Alistair Winter]

Malachy Karrde, on 06 May 2016 - 04:36 AM, said:

Ok gonna weigh in here. I am a Dire wolf pilot.
It takes a week or two to become competent in lights, 3 weeks for mediums, a month for heavies, and half a year in assaults.

I would say you're very biased. Because the numbers don't match up with what you're saying, at all. First of all, light mechs are by far the least popular mechs in MWO. There has been many times where the number of light mechs in queue has been less than 3%, which is unheard of with any other weight class. Second of all, at any level of gameplay in MWO, whether it's tier 5 or tier 1, solo queue or group queue, you will see light mechs getting the worst scores. Lowest damage, fewest kills, lowest match score.

And third, as someone who plays all weight classes relatively equally, light mechs are by far the hardest to jump into and get good scores with. I can pick up my heavies and mediums any day of the week and get a good score. I can do the same thing with my most powerful light mechs and assaults too. But the average light mech is really, really hard to get good scores with, compared to the average medium, average heavy and even the average assault.

You may disagree with my experience, but the numbers do speak for themselves. People don't get good with light mechs after two weeks. Most people aren't really that good with them after two years.

[Soldier91]

Escef, on 05 May 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

A big part of the problem is also the slow assaults. Especially the Dire Wolves. Before the clans hit, almost no one considered a 300 engine in an Atlas a good idea, it was too slow. Because of the nature of Omnimech customization, Dires don't have a choice. Yet the Dire is also quite possibly the most dangerous weapons platform in the game, it brings an almost comically large amount of firepower.

The more experienced players have adapted to the idea of escorting the sub-60kph assaults around. Less experienced players have not. Personally, I am not a big fan of the slow assaults, it's too easy for the flow of battle to leave them behind. Probably why I prefer the BattleMaster.

I escort slow assaults around because they're more likely to draw fire and make stuff twist or go behind cover getting me shot less and so my mech can cool off from shooting. Tends to backfire if there is an entire lance or two that rolls up.
I went with a faster assault mech because the poke fighters are not team players, it can be problematic since it's so common but when you're in an assault generally I'm not going to use jumpjets like other mechs means I have to use terrain spots to walk around up ledges, some mechs with accelleration bonuses can get lucky and billy goat climb up some steeper stuff, but a slow assault mech is stuck to those corridors and poke fighters monopolize that space to poke fight and complain about people blocking them in when it's going to take an extra minute or a few to walk around to get near the fight without getting hit by large laser poke spam from max range+ while the rest of the team already is getting hit by it.

Edited by Soldier91, 06 May 2016 - 11:23 AM.

[Malachy Karrde]

TercieI, on 06 May 2016 - 09:24 AM, said:

LOL. Most of the light pilots in Scouting suck, you realize that, right? Holding up against them is no indication of skill whatsoever. Lights are a crutch against bad pilots, maybe. To be even not insta-gibbed against good pilots is remarkably difficult.

Also, you weren't talking mastery, you were talking competence. I read that as skill floor, not skill ceiling, so which is it?

I would not claim to be a master light pilot, but they are ridiculously easy to rack up kills with and survive with. The easiest mech I've ever piloted to be honest. Maybe it's because I'm not a noob to the game and I have years of practice shooting down enemy mechs with the slowest platform in game, but the Arctic cheater feels like....well cheating lol. I am.tier 2, so I'd assume that at least a fraction of the competition is competent..

[dario03]

Malachy Karrde, on 06 May 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

I would not claim to be a master light pilot, but they are ridiculously easy to rack up kills with and survive with. The easiest mech I've ever piloted to be honest. Maybe it's because I'm not a noob to the game and I have years of practice shooting down enemy mechs with the slowest platform in game, but the Arctic cheater feels like....well cheating lol. I am.tier 2, so I'd assume that at least a fraction of the competition is competent..

There is no MM in CW invasion or scout. And I have to completely disagree with your time estimates for learning mechs. A week for lights and half a year for assaults??? Were you being serious with that? I highly doubt that the average mechwarrior needs ~26x as long to become competent in one mech type compared to another no matter what order. And the order of difficulty probably varies person to person but heavy is probably the easiest for most. I don't think I've ever known anybody that said "I can't do heavies" but I've heard tons of people say "I can't do lights"

[Malachy Karrde]

I never said I was only playing lights in invasion or scout. It's faster to level the chassis in quick play, so that's where I have been using them. I only started to use light mechs after scouting became a thing. That's all I said. Anyone can run around fast and evasively in a light mech. If you've ever played a shooter, it's easy as hell. What's harder is playing something slow and lacking agility. The bigger the mechs get, the slower and less agile they get, making the learning curve go up, and therefore the ability needed to succeed increase. Lots of people strap on heavy mechs as noobs, doesn't mean they are good at them or that they are more forgiving. It just means that mwo and battletech in particular has romanticized the bigger mechs, and the average noob thinks that bigger is better. I've watched the career of many pilots over the years, first they strap on the heavies and then realize that they get their clock cleaned alot, then they move to mediums or lights because that's what cleaned their clock. A few go bigger...like yours truly and spend the time to learn how to handle the monster mechs.

I know alot of light mech pilots want to claim they are difficult to master and that my position is offensive to many, but unfortunately it's the truth. After having spent years in assaults nearly exclusively, moving to a light is child's play and barely a challenge. Sorry but in my opinion, lights are crutch mechs and take very little skill to operate successfully.

I am also dead serious about the time frames. While the exact time may vary a little player to player, it takes eons longer to master assault game play than any other weight class. Assaults aren't something you can pick up and be halfway good at over night like light mechs. Mediums take more time because they are bigger and don't have the agility of a light or the armor of a heavy, and heavies imo are the second toughest to master. Sure you can missile up a heavy and look pretty awesome on paper, but to truly master one and learn to successfully brawl in one takes quite abit longer.

Edited by Malachy Karrde, 06 May 2016 - 06:48 PM.

[dario03]

Malachy Karrde, on 06 May 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

I never said I was only playing lights in invasion or scout. It's faster to level the chassis in quick play, so that's where I have been using them. I only started to use light mechs after scouting became a thing. That's all I said. Anyone can run around fast and evasively in a light mech. If you've ever played a shooter, it's easy as hell. What's harder is playing something slow and lacking agility. The bigger the mechs get, the slower and less agile they get, making the learning curve go up, and therefore the ability needed to succeed increase. Lots of people strap on heavy mechs as noobs, doesn't mean they are good at them or that they are more forgiving. It just means that mwo and battletech in particular has romanticized the bigger mechs, and the average noob thinks that bigger is better. I've watched the career of many pilots over the years, first they strap on the heavies and then realize that they get their clock cleaned alot, then they move to mediums or lights because that's what cleaned their clock. A few go bigger...like yours truly and spend the time to learn how to handle the monster mechs.

I know alot of light mech pilots want to claim they are difficult to master and that my position is offensive to many, but unfortunately it's the truth. After having spent years in assaults nearly exclusively, moving to a light is child's play and barely a challenge. Sorry but in my opinion, lights are crutch mechs and take very little skill to operate successfully.

I am also dead serious about the time frames. While the exact time may vary a little player to player, it takes eons longer to master assault game play than any other weight class. Assaults aren't something you can pick up and be halfway good at over night like light mechs. Mediums take more time because they are bigger and don't have the agility of a light or the armor of a heavy, and heavies imo are the second toughest to master. Sure you can missile up a heavy and look pretty awesome on paper, but to truly master one and learn to successfully brawl in one takes quite abit longer.

Well like you said earlier your success in lights is probably due to already knowing the game. If it took you a long time to figure out heavies and assaults its probably because you didn't know anything about the game at that time. And if you were having trouble fighting lights it was probably because you didn't know the ups and downs about them.
And no, lights being crutch mechs is definitely not the truth. If it was you would see far more light mechs, far less people saying "I can't play lights", and far more lights topping the scores in matches.
And while I disagree with it, I can actually see saying assaults are hard to learn. They are one extreme of the range (like lights) but saying heavies are the second hardest to learn? I just can't see that.
And it shouldn't take anyone eons to learn assaults. I started playing assaults not to long after starting the game (but had a decent bit of games in other classes) and it didn't take long at all to learn how to play. Yeah you're slow but you can take a hit and put out tons of damage in a short amount of time, even if you have good range.

Edited by dario03, 06 May 2016 - 07:44 PM.

[ImperialKnight]

in pugs, yea, Assaults have it the hardest. you have to play cautiously, and always position properly. typically i poke cautiously and bide my time. nothing more hilarious than a light/medium coming round a corner and getting smacked down by an Atlas.
and when the time comes, just type into chat "follow the Atlas if you want to win", wait 3s and then go for it. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. just live for the moments that it does.