402 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Mavairo, on 12 May 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

You say that... but I can name one other game that "avoided P2W!" like the devil...and then suddenly overnight it decided it needed lockboxes, and p2w items too.
I don't want this to become another STO situation.
No one is going to open a lock box for Flamers and Medium Lasers. They're going to put something in that noticeably gives the player using it an advantage, otherwise there is absolutely zero incentive to open a lock box. This is why games incorporate them. To give a low effort, "exclusive" item that gives the player an advantage over someone who doesn't pay "just a little money" for a -chance- to get an item that will give them an advantage. That's the ENTIRE business model behind the Lock Box Model in the first place.

This reeks of STO all over again.

It doesn't need to be something that gives an advantage, just something worth more MC than the unlock.

Premium time. Mechs. Hero mechs even. Colors. Camo.

[Mavairo]

Wintersdark, on 12 May 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

It doesn't need to be something that gives an advantage, just something worth more MC than the unlock.

Premium time. Mechs. Hero mechs even. Colors. Camo.

And Cryptic coulda done that too. But they didn't. They even had an extensive Cstore with plenty of items, to give away..and they didn't. Because they knew full well, that no one would buy zen to open them if there wasn't something REALLY nice in it.
Along with every other game in existence with lock boxes.

[Afuldan McKronik]

It won't be too bad as long as it is implimented correctly. What I fear seeing is a Crate Lot in the store. X crates for X cash, complete with X keys. Only $9.99! Buy now to get a chance for exclusive items!

[Tina Benoit]

Some clarification on Supply Cache: http://mwomercs.com/...-clarification/

[NocturnalBeast]

After reading Russ' clarification, I think that the supply caches could be a good way to reward match contribution if the caches are rewarded at the end of the match rather than being a capturable object on the map which would encourage poor teamwork.

[Juodas Varnas]

I still don't like it and you won't convince me otherwise!

Unless the crates came with complimentary Scorpion mechs, I'M NOT INTERESTED

[Bud Crue]

Tina Benoit, on 12 May 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

Some clarification on Supply Cache: http://mwomercs.com/...-clarification/

Much appreciated. I can't properly explain just how appreciated both the fact that you (as a PGI representative) are posting, and for Russ's "clarification". Thank you.

[Alan Davion]

Okay, so the physical placement on the map has been axed, that assuages the fears of idiot teammates bumbling off in search of a crate and getting ganked by the enemy team.

I'm still not convinced with the random allocation of only one cache to someone on the winning team. That just opens up a whole other can of worms to do with an already broke-as-f*** scoring system.

[NocturnalBeast]

Alan Davion, on 12 May 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Okay, so the physical placement on the map has been axed, that assuages the fears of idiot teammates bumbling off in search of a crate and getting ganked by the enemy team.

I'm still not convinced with the random allocation of only one cache to someone on the winning team. That just opens up a whole other can of worms to do with an already broke-as-f*** scoring system.

As long as the criteria for being awarded a cache is based on your ability to play your Mech according to it's intended role, rather than just based on damage done or purely match score.

[Stoneblade]

Alan Davion, on 12 May 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Okay, so the physical placement on the map has been axed, that assuages the fears of idiot teammates bumbling off in search of a crate and getting ganked by the enemy team.

I'm still not convinced with the random allocation of only one cache to someone on the winning team. That just opens up a whole other can of worms to do with an already broke-as-f*** scoring system.

If they include the Damage done to Turrets/generators at say 50% (so 2 points done to a mech equal 1 point done to a turret) then I could see it being better reflected on game play.

The RNG of the Items in the crate would still be too much of a risk for me. First I get a RNG assigned crate, then I have to spend MC to get a RNG items. Makes me want to buy "Cartel Coins" and play SWOTOR.....

[Alan Davion]

Ed Steele, on 12 May 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

As long as the criteria for being awarded a cache is based on your ability to play your Mech according to it's intended role, rather than just based on damage done or purely match score.

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said the scoring system was broke-as-f***.

Now if we had a level/rank system like CoD or Battlefield, that'd be different. That would take all your scoring into account and determine how much you rise towards the next rank. Instead of being weighed so heavily on damage output like we have now.

We have something vaguely similar in the CW/FW section, the whole loyalty point system, but we need it for the rest of the game as well.

Not only would it fix the broke scoring system, it would probably fix the broke-as-f*** tier system too. Give us levels and ranks and use those to determine the match making system, not this piece of crap tier system we have now.

This leveling system could also be used to award crates based on weapons usage like what CoD/Battlefield has. Get some of those un-used weapon systems to be used again and maybe get PGI to actually balance them properly.

[TercieI]

Tina Benoit, on 12 May 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

Some clarification on Supply Cache: http://mwomercs.com/...-clarification/

Good clarifications and thanks for active comms, Tina.

[Kael Posavatz]

Does anyone else think that last line is just a little passive-aggressive?

(okay, second to last line. The actual last line strikes me as sarcastic, but maybe that's just me).


Frankly, one of the things I really appreciated about how PGI implemented their F2P model was that it avoided this kind of 'take a gamble' mechanic. There are parts I don't appreciate (basic Clan-faction warhorns, banners, and hanging items costing more than their basic IS-faction counterparts), and stuff I felt should have been available a long time ago (decals). But on the whole PGI has been really quite good in avoiding many of the more common and, frankly, detestable aspects of how many companies have implemented F2P.

I find it troubling that a mechanic (in-match crate-quest) PGI had apparently noted could have a potentially adverse effect on gameplay even made it into the roadmap. But ever since first reading about the supply caches, I cannot help but feel that PGI is squandering some moral high ground.

I think it was Koniving who posted the Extra Credits clip on F2P. There are actually a number they have done on the topic over on youtube. And watching them, I was honestly kind of surprised about how well PGI adhered to what they were saying. Not perfectly. There were problems (price disparity mentioned above. Gold Mechs). But on the whole, better than most.

Fine, I realize I don't have to spend MC if I don't want to. I can sell them for c-bills or whatever. But on the whole, not impressed with this decision.

[FaithBombCRNA]

Mavairo, on 11 May 2016 - 09:47 PM, said:

Just a matter of time before the lockboxes become p2W. I can see it now.. Advanced Tech..only available in lockboxes.

Not really being fair to PGI with that one, as they have done a great job IMO avoiding P2W


Caches still don't excite me personally, but with this one tweak, they no longer bother me.

[davoodoo]

Russ, if there wasnt a high possibility of this, then why the hell did you put it onto roadmap...
Thats kind of ******** my 12 yeard old self would make if i ****** up so horribly i wouldnt want to admit it...

So assuming basic algorithm 1/12 chance to get at win so, 1/12*x with x being your winrate, average of 1/24 with winrate of 50%.
I hope they sell for at least 2 millions cbills or it wont even be worth bothering

No explanation on content or pricing.

Yep that cleared it up and made problem go away havent it??

Edited by davoodoo, 12 May 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Kael Posavatz, on 12 May 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Does anyone else think that last line is just a little passive-aggressive?

(okay, second to last line. The actual last line strikes me as sarcastic, but maybe that's just me).


Fine, I realize I don't have to spend MC if I don't want to. I can sell them for c-bills or whatever. But on the whole, not impressed with this decision.

Passive aggressive? No. Frank. It doesn't impact you if you're not interested. If you are, it's there.

With this change, the potential harm to gameplay is gone. It's still exploitive of people who are stupid or have gambling problems, but that's an industry wide issue - this is, ultimately, a common monetisation scheme used virtually everywhere.

But most importantly, any potential negative game impact is gone.

[Zerberus]

TheKIps, on 09 May 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

Hahahahahaha, i burst out laughing when i heard this. PGI are implementing team fortress 2 / Dota 2 style crates with real money keys?

What are they going to put in the boxes "kerensky tigerstripe [Rare] AC20 limited edition"?

Does anyone remember Mechwarrrior tactics? +12 assault machinegun blue edition.

One thing that tactics did get right, though (at least in theory, unfortunately many underlying mechanics never got coded in) was differentiating weapons from divfferent manufacturers by having different weapon specific quirks.

Unfortunately, some of those quirks were massively OP (flechette SRMs with stacking bonuses per salvo fired, anyone? Or AC2s with guaranteed structure damage in addition to the armor damage, letting you literally take out entire lances of assaults with a single Panther if you could keep them at range...), which eventually led to similar issues to those we have today in MWO with things like 3ERPPC Thunderbolts making 3PPC Awesomes look like fat, slow beginners.

The basic idea was great, but the implementation was in many ways more borked than MWO could ever dream of being....

But I do see this as a possible way for PGI to slowly introduce "real" salvage, and maybe even exactly those kind of weapon- /manufacturer-specific quirks eventually...

but it will basically live and die with the MC cost of keys.... If we assume 100 mc average payout for most events, then keys will probably have to be 10MC or less so, as to not lock out or significantly disadvantage free players. That said, however, there are currently no MC items that offer an actual gameplay advantage anyway, so as long as we assume the crates will contain normal equipment it basically ends up being "pay a few MC and spin the wheel, or just sell it for 10000 cbills" (or whatever vaue PGI applies to it)... as it stands, it´s basically just a perk for those that have a bit of MC, but not in any way game changing much less game breaking.

The important this is that it´s awarded in a way that doesn´t cause 24 greedy idiots to run around like beheaded chickens until it´s found and ony then start to actually care about playing the game.

That all said, it might be a nice "objective" in a Solaris mode.. kind of a "real" King of the Hill... put a crate at the top of a real hill that gets awarded to the last surviving player that actually touched it

P2W I will believe when it actually happens, and not a second before, because people have been whining about P2W even since closed beta, and not being P2W in any way is the one thing if anything that PGI has a stellar track record on. Therefore the incessant automatic assumptions that they will make anything new P2W has no leg to stand on at this time, and as far as MWO is concerned it never did. Anything and everything that was ever declared P2W by a paniced minority was soon after proven to be "pay to LOSE" or "pay to be just as ****** as you were before", if anything.

Edited by Zerberus, 12 May 2016 - 12:00 PM.

[Wintersdark]

FaithBombCRNA, on 12 May 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Not really being fair to PGI with that one, as they have done a great job IMO avoiding P2W


Caches still don't excite me personally, but with this one tweak, they no longer bother me.

Exactly. While other games have gone P2W with these, other games have gone P2W with everything. pGI has always strictly avoided P2W in MWO, and there's no reason to think that's abruptly going to change now.

People said exactly the same things with Hero mechs, and PGI certainly could have gone P2W there, at any point from the first onwards. They never did.

So, give them the benefit of the doubt on this at least, it's one of the few things they've maintained a perfect record with.

[davoodoo]

Wintersdark, on 12 May 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

Exactly. While other games have gone P2W with these, other games have gone P2W with everything. pGI has always strictly avoided P2W in MWO, and there's no reason to think that's abruptly going to change now.

People said exactly the same things with Hero mechs, and PGI certainly could have gone P2W there, at any point from the first onwards. They never did.

So, give them the benefit of the doubt on this at least, it's one of the few things they've maintained a perfect record with.

pay2win is worst example out there.

At this point only nexon and mobile games still have any western playerbase with pay2win...
And if we mention nexon they still got none in their ghost in the shell shooter.

And even then i could argue about ecm archer hero, oxide with srms or even firebrand as being a bit too good sidegrades to say they arent offering advantage to paying users...

Edited by davoodoo, 12 May 2016 - 11:59 AM.

[wanderer]

Quote

PGI certainly could have gone P2W there, at any point from the first onwards. They never did.

Given quirks, at the moment you could make an argument for the Oxide, as nothing for C-bills (or MC) comes close in IS tech.