Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:
In that comparo, I'd still prefer the Viper. Dated, but more satisfying still. (Actually the only car that has ever scared me because it was like the 911s bigger cage fighter of a brother). The new Z06 is again, a beast in raw specs, but unless they made a major change from the last gen one, still has way too many electronic nannys and babysitters. (it's posted skidpad rating is pretty amazing though, not gonna lie, and that stat means more to me than 0-60, etc)
Also... and this is purely subjective and a little petty... but I really hate the new look of the Vette, the last few generations. The c4 was your typical blah vanilla of the 80s. C5 was an improved version. But the c6 and 7 have too much Euro, like they are channeling Fisker (american, yes, but their styling is very euro) and Ferarri and such. They are great looking cars... but they just don't "look like a vette" to me.
Regardless, that does nothing to detract from their performance. But last I checked the c6 were still very high maintenance. the C7s haven't really been around long enough to know, anymore than the 991s have.
Of course, I guess with all these idiots cutting themselves in half lately losing control of their Lambos and such, not going to see that change anytime soon.
That's one thing I liked with when I was selling Vipers in the mid 90s.... we only let our customers take delivery of them at the Skip Barber School of racing... AFTER they completed a basic course on how to drive them.
The Corvette imo is very controllable, and very easy to hoon around in. Driving a C4 and onwards sideways, is actually fairly easy, and once you've had enough seat time to get used to the car it's a very rewarding experience.
I've driven my car, from Stock to Modded (and in the next couple years or so I'm putting my Novi 2000 on my C4. This year I'm finishing up my body modifications, and starting on a BBC Stroker for my Third Gen Z-28).
If I want insane near out of control feelings of speed, that the thing is going to kill me in the next ten seconds, I don't want anything on 4 wheels. I'd just buy the turbo ZX14R off a buddy of mine, who's trying to get me back into bikes.
The C4, particularly the early cars, is a very much alive car in your hands in cornering. You feel every bump in the road, and the tightness of the suspension. Of all the pre C7 Corvettes, the C4 before they added the LT1 is probably the most Alive, and driver friendly of the bunch. So basically, drive a 90 or Earlier C4.
The only real sin a C4 suffers from is probably the easiest one to correct given the powerplant under the hood. Horsepower. And if you cant find horsepower with a small block chevrolet, you probably aren't a real enthusiast given that it's probably the most easy to find speed parts engine on the planet for.
The C5 and C6 are....well to be honest, driving the C5 and C6 outside of a race track environment are soul less Honda Accords with lots of hp added on. They're Numb. When I was shopping around for my Toy, I wasn't particularly excited about the idea of owning a C5 or C6. They just don't Feel Fast, off the track. I've had the pleasure of driving a C5 and C6 at Carolina Motorsports and they were great on the track..but on the test drives, of each on the carlots I went to, they were disappointments. The C4 on the other hand... I knew I was in trouble the second I started taking it off the lot. There wasn't anyway in hell I -wasn't- buying that car. All it needed to me was Power. And I already had plans in that department.
The engines of a Corvette, along with the transmissions aren't anything special in terms of maintenance, frankly. In the Early C4s (like mine), it's just a small block chevrolet, with aluminum heads, and either the Bulletproof ZF-6 transmission which was dramatically underrated in torque capacity (By over half. Even the "weak" blue tag in reality is rated to well north of 700LBFT of torque, while the Black Tag is 900lbft), or the 700R4..which admittedly is the weak point in an early C4. Fortunately, for less than 2k, you can put a trans in it that can take 650lbft all day long. Mostly what goes out in a Corvette, are the same kind of things that go out in any car as it ages. I'm not kidding when I said, I literally drove my vette from the track, to the local Oreilly's bought a new maf sensor, went back to the track and went right back to playing. You can't do that sort of thing with a Porsche, and let's be honest...any car that you beat on is going to need love. And had I blown an engine, or head gasket etc... there would have been parts on the shelf, and it's such an easy car to service I could probably fix it in a parking lot, easily.
Even with the modifications that I've done, (Dart 400 block, Cam, Dart Aluminum heads, intake...exhaust.. I'm pushing 450hp 550lb ft NA on 10:1 compression) if I some how popped a head gasket (which would be impressive considering I have MLS gaskets), I could still buy parts virtually anywhere, fix it and get it back on the road. And chevy engines can take an extreme amount of abuse before they go out totally. I've seen guys drive their cars on 4PSI for oil pressure for months, without serious damage to the engine, I've seen some over heated so bad that the temp gauge was pegged, without hurting the car.
I also happen to LOVE the Wedge Aero era of sports cars. There's even a weakness in my heart for the M1, and that V12 BMW both that they had in the 80s, and I KNOW what kind of maintenance nightmare a BMW is..and I still wouldn't mind owning one.
The C4 in particular is probably one of, if not the most easy to service sports car on the planet for the level of handling performance it delivers going, and is probably bar none the best performance buy on the planet for cheap speed. Though with the plummeting values of the C5 and C6 that might change in the next five years.
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The C5 and up have the LS series of engines, which are probably the single most bullet proof engines on the planet, in the Serious Modding community. There's a reason the LS family is being swapped into virtually anything that moves, and that includes 911s, washed up Ferraris and Lamborghinis, Mustangs, Hot Rods, Street Rods, Jaguars, you name it...there's probably a guy that's put an LS engine in it at this point.
The C5 has either the T56 Magnum, or the 4L60E...the former is one of the most rugged transmissions going on the market today, (Know all of those 1k+ hp vipers, and 1k+ hp manual corvettes? That's the stick they're running) or the 4L60E (which GM introduced in 94 on the C4 too) which is essentially an upgraded and beefed up 700R4.
C6...T56 Magnum, or the 6L60E both of which are ridiculously bulletproof.
C7... the new 7 Speed, and the 6L60E, or the new 8L80E which is rated to take 800lbft of torque reliably.
But of the current Porsches... man Porsche would have to give me a 911. And even then I'd probably sell it for a used Cayman..and then the money left over would go into giving it the HP Porsche refuses to give it. The Cayman that people make fun of is really the better car in terms of performance potential.
To me Drivers' Car entails Looks, Sound, How it actually drives, and how easy it is to get parts for. There's no such thing as a sports car you'll never be buying parts for..at least if you actually use it as a sports car. I respect the performance of the 911, but it's not a Driver's Car to me. At least not the late model that I drove, on mountain roads. And for the money spent, you'd think it'd do better at the track. It's respectable at the track...but I've seen a lot of guys make Respectable or Fast cars, for less money. I'm a tinkerer, if I own something for five minutes, and I'm not already planning on at least some level of modification then I'm not enthused about it what so ever.
I will agree though, modern cars are by and large too overloaded in extraneous Crap. I don't care about sat nav, dvd playing, 600+watt stereos, or cup holders. Driving is get in the car, fire it up, and DRIVE. Not sit in a living room that travels.
Edited by Mavairo, 15 May 2016 - 08:51 AM.
2
), that's not actually what "driving experience" means when we're talking about the 911 setting the bar. The reason the 911 became the standard, now replaced by the 718 Cayman, is because it eventually got to a point where it best inspired confidence in the driver without doing anything for her. It communicated what it was doing completely and responded to inputs predictably. The Cayman does that with aplomb, certainly better than the current 911. And those old 911s? Not really the driving standard. It was the little British roadsters that were defining driving pleasure back then, while the 911 had the reputation the Viper now has as something of a widow-maker (funny enough, and in a complete role-reversal, the current top trim Viper is more controllable than the current top trim Corvette).
