77 replies to this topic

[Snowbluff]

How many double heat sinks can I fit in it with 8-9 MPL, an AC20, an XL 400 engine, and 3 or 5 tons of ammo?

[Metus regem]

Snowbluff, on 14 May 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

How many double heat sinks can I fit in it with 8-9 MPL, an AC20, an XL 400 engine, and 3 or 5 tons of ammo?

The stock 20 DHS with the stock 400xl, UAC/20+4t ammo and 8 cMPL.

[ScarecrowES]

Snowbluff, on 14 May 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

How many double heat sinks can I fit in it with 8-9 MPL, an AC20, an XL 400 engine, and 3 or 5 tons of ammo?

With 9xMPL, 1xUAC/20 (w/3tons ammo), 400XL, you have space for 21 total DHS at default armor.

[davoodoo]

I would be fine if kodiaks got only some insignicant quirks on all variants, or no quirks at all on any variants.

But now these 9 and 11e hardpoint variants are just meh compared to quirked ones.

[Wintersdark]

kapusta11, on 14 May 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

Can my Banshees and Maulers get those too? A moderate agility quirks, not a big deal right?

Yeah, they should IMHO. The mobility changes and wierd way MWO assigns agility based on ground speed is really broken for heavy assaults since the pilot skill nerfs.



I can't help but notice how often people seem to think every post about an IS or Clan mech is made from someone who's 100% all of their shown faction. A huge percentage of people don't care at all about IS vs. Clan balance, or are actually hoping for GOOD IS vs. Clan balance because they play both.

[Bishop Steiner]

davoodoo, on 14 May 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

I would be fine if kodiaks got only some insignicant quirks on all variants, or no quirks at all on any variants.

But now these 9 and 11e hardpoint variants are just meh compared to quirked ones.

yup cause a stock 131 pt alpha is nothing that people won't abuse (yeah they'll shutdown, etc.... still see other shutdown builds used a lot too).

It's not that they will ideally be better, but they do have the imbalance potential.

Is PGI wrong? Wouldn't be the first time, but it's still a lot of potential hurt. And just by dropping to 8xERSL you actually make the heat survivable. Which leaves you with a weak 115 dmg alpha. And 4 more DHS than stock. 3 More tons if you drop to SRM6 from SSRM6.... or 1 more if you drop them to aSRM6.

Just to play devils advocate.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 May 2016 - 12:26 PM.

[Appogee]

Complaining about Mech quirks before the Mech has even been on the battlefield...

/shakes head and walks away.





PS: I have bought the Kodiaks.

[Widowmaker1981]

Appogee, on 14 May 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

Complaining about Mech quirks before the Mech has even been on the battlefield...

/shakes head and walks away.





PS: I have bought the Kodiaks.

Its only because it is silly - PGI should know its really not possible to make use of those crazy numbers of energy hardpoints without hitting the same heat brick wall a smaller mech would, so if they are going to give quirks to the other variants then they should give them to the energy one as well. The KDK-3 would still be my favourite, but the gulf would be smaller.. Its just silly to base it purely on flat hardpoint count. The -5 may have 13 hardpoints, but thats 1B, 11E (lol) and 1M (which is useless, because 1M is useless in pretty much all cases). In any practical sense those are worse than 4B /4E, especially given the location of those ballistic mounts.

I was expecting no quirks at all to be honest, so the fact that there are any surprises me, im just confused by quirking the best variants and leaving already worse ones with nothing, based on a misunderstanding of the game, imo at least.

and the OP suggesting 20% heat gen quirks on a 100 ton fully customisable clan mech with 9 energy hardpoints needs to put the crack pipe down. That would be insanely OP. I'd suggest that no Clan battlemech (as opposed to omnimech) should ever get any weapon quirks.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 14 May 2016 - 12:33 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

ghetto KDK
or with "correct placement and 400xl"

117 alpha and can do it twice I believe before shutdown. (If my other 24% heat mechs are any indication)

So 234+ dmg in 5 seconds (since some stuff cycles faster)

I do think that merits some consideration. And modding it away from GH completely ain't hard.
(One alpha hits about 75% heatscale, using Marthe's emulator, with GH enabled, and drops to about 45% by the time the UAC20 cycles., for the sake of science)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 May 2016 - 12:53 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

ghetto KDK
or with "correct placement and 400xl"

117 alpha and can do it twice I believe before shutdown. (If my other 24% heat mechs are any indication)

So 234+ dmg in 5 seconds (since some stuff cycles faster)

I do think that merits some consideration. And modding it away from GH completely ain't hard.

I was thinking of a build more or less just like that one.

[FupDup]

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 09:08 AM, said:

How about we just see how things play out?

Shouldn't we have done that before quirking the non-laser Kodiaks?

[Bishop Steiner]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

I was thinking of a build more or less just like that one.

and if one wants (and hitboxes allow) a more "sustained" fire build, dropping to UAC10 and aSRM4s gives you a good alternate.

So, I really think reports of the KDK-1s death are greatly exaggerated- Whether it lives or dies will be based on it's hitboxes, not it hardpoints and some pretty mild quirks. And that goes for ALL the variants, not just the 1&5

FupDup, on 14 May 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

Shouldn't we have done that before quirking the non-laser Kodiaks?

Perhaps*gasp* PGI already did enough internally, that their initial feel is that the 1 and 5 are scarier?

I mean, I know, until our mighty Tier 1s say it's acceptable, nothing should be done..... but you know, some folks got a business to run, and all.....

Mind you, they could be wrong with their internal testing. If we were looking at some heavy quirks, I might take all this QQ a little more seriously. The only one I do think has outright OP potential (as long as hitboxes don't suck) could be the Spirit Bear.


But even though it's not "Meta"? I consider a 117 dmg repeatable alpha worth consideration.

[kapusta11]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Perhaps*gasp* PGI already did enough internally, that their initial feel is that the 1 and 5 are scarier?

I mean, I know, until our mighty Tier 1s say it's acceptable, nothing should be done..... but you know, some folks got a business to run, and all.....

Mind you,they could be wrong with their internal testing. If we were looking at some heavy quirks, I might take all this QQ a little more seriously. The only one I do think has outright OP potential (as long as hitboxes don't suck) could be the Spirit Bear.


But even though it's not "Meta"? I consider a 117 dmg repeatable alpha worth consideration.

Hahahaha, good one.

Also 35% accel, decel and torso turn rate is pretty heavy considering that a lot of Assault mechs have zero% mobility quirks. They directly affect facetime and how well you can roll damage.

Edited by kapusta11, 14 May 2016 - 01:08 PM.

[LegendaryArticuno]

FupDup, on 14 May 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

Shouldn't we have done that before quirking the non-laser Kodiaks?

We did that with the Archer (all variants still crap), and IIC Mechs (2/4 got it right). So no we shouldn't just let things play out.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 14 May 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

Shouldn't we have done that before quirking the non-laser Kodiaks?

Yes, indeed. I've been saying from day one that they would be, and should be, released without quirks. But I'm not going to spit on some agility quirks if PGI feels my favourite KDK's just need them.

[Wintersdark]

So, the KDK5 could do something as silly as this:



31 DHS! Jebus.

[FupDup]

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

So, the KDK5 could do something as silly as this:



31 DHS! Jebus.

That thing looks like it will overheat in seconds, even without Ghost Heat factored in...

And if you want to avoid Spooky Heat, you've got to expose yourself longer and thus take more damage from the red team and spread your damage a bit more.

I still think that the shoulder quad dakka variant will be better, even before considering that it gets quirks.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Perhaps*gasp* PGI already did enough internally, that their initial feel is that the 1 and 5 are scarier?

If they found the Dakka variant inferior to those...I feel a

LOL

would be an appropriate reaction. Of course, the fact ANY Kodiak got quirks (let alone the two anticipated most powerful ones) is surprising to me. They're easily set to outclass the Whale, which has nothing.

[Wintersdark]

So, the KDK-1?



112 point alpha with doubletap, no ghost heat. Still 22 DHS.

FupDup, on 14 May 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

I still think that the shoulder quad dakka variant will be better, even before considering that it gets quirks.

No doubt.

The KDK 2, 3, 4 and SB are simply better anyways, because you can't really use that many E hardpoints effectively. But it doesn't make the -1 and -5 builds any less silly =)

[FupDup]

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

So, the KDK-1?



112 point alpha with doubletap, no ghost heat. Still 22 DHS.

That has more guns than the classic 2 LPL + 4 ERML Mad Cat but even fewer heatsinks (it had 27 or so). Since even that Mad Cat build was pretty hawt running, that Kodi is going to be a walking oven.