106 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Chimera11, on 14 May 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Yeah, it seems like they tend to listen to the vocal minority of low tier players who still think laser vomit is the ultimate unparalleled meta. Vocal minorities (of both experienced players and new players) can often be the undoing of a game.

I'm not saying it couldn't have been a potent Laser mech...but it doesn't have the properties which would make it a good one, like the Banshee and his 5 (large laser capable) high mounted weapon mounts.

Quad LPL could have also been deadly at long range, but not with such low mounts. Same tonnage as the 6 MPLs, so you can swap it in (and sword and board if you want)

[ScarecrowES]

Just to help stoke the fire of speculation.

[cazidin]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Just to help stoke the fire of speculation.

The missile hard points on the left shoulder are STILL ugly!

[ScarecrowES]

cazidin, on 14 May 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

The missile hard points on the left shoulder are STILL ugly!

Haven't seen if they're still pushing them up instead of out. Honestly, if the ST does extend down the pauldron, it would have made more sense to pull the missile boxes down the length of the pauldron instead. Big ol' missile shoulder.

[Chimera_]

Mcgral18, on 14 May 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

I'm not saying it couldn't have been a potent Laser mech...but it doesn't have the properties which would make it a good one, like the Banshee and his 5 (large laser capable) high mounted weapon mounts.

Quad LPL could have also been deadly at long range, but not with such low mounts. Same tonnage as the 6 MPLs, so you can swap it in (and sword and board if you want)

I mostly mean that PGI seems far more scared of lasers than ballistics or missiles. Why else would they give the KDK 1 and 5 no quirks but quirk the quad-ballistic KDK 3 monster?

[Azghuld]

it's a glass cannon. what, you guys didn't know?

[pwnface]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

yes because what...10 pt structure buff will really matter on that huge of a target?

So you think it would have worse torsos than the Atlas and a lot worse structure, too?

I think you are forgetting the clan XL and MASC in this equation.

It's entirely possible the Kodiak will have worse hitboxes and worse structure quirks than the Atlas, in fact I think a lot of us expect it to. If the Kodiak can tank as well as an Atlas and still run clan XL and MASC it would completely obsolete the Atlas.

[Cy Mitchell]

Azghuld, on 14 May 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

it's a glass cannon. what, you guys didn't know?

Compared to the Atlas, pretty much everything is made of glass whether it is a cannon or not.

[ScarecrowES]

Rampage, on 14 May 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

Compared to the Atlas, pretty much everything is made of glass whether it is a cannon or not.

In fairness, so was the Atlas until it got its quirks.

[El Bandito]

Only variant I am interested is quad dakka one, so as long as I play smart, I can keep the exposure to minimal amount. Kodiak-3 will be a straight upgrade from my quad CUAC10 Dire Wolf. Plus it has quirks now. Gonna have to wait for it come out in C-Bills though...

I just know some bloke will put quad LB10Xs instead, just because.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 May 2016 - 11:27 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Remember that the high points on the Awesome shoulder are ST and not arms. So, if that holds true to the Kodiak, the arms will start at the base of the shoulder and the rest will be ST.

Just remember, guys. The Kodiak isn't, in fact, the Clan Atlas. You need to look at it more like a much heavier Executioner. It has speed and maneuverability for it to get into and out of fights faster. That speed, and MASC, is the added armor and buffs. Everything else is gravy. It is going to be fine and it is going to put a hurt on people. It just won't be an Atlas mech capable for a 4.0 40. That is great because it keeps a different level of flavor which is really important in an otherwise vanilla game.

[Wintersdark]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

I think, based on the needs of the shoulder missile box, the ST box will end up looking something like the following:




I don't think that would be the end of the world. But it would kinda justify those ST buffs.

The base ST missile box doesn't interfere with the lines Bishop and I showed. It expanding sideways into the sloped part of the pauldron doesn't impact where the hitbox itself needs to be, so that in no way means they'd have to start that way. We'll see in a couple days, but I *highly* doubt the whole sloped area will be ST. A 10pt ST structure buff wouldn't come anywhere close to making up for that.

Edit: As well, every time a mech has had ST's moving out to the sides above the arms, those hitboxes have been altered afterwards. Joke all you want about PGI's never learning, but given that's an issue that has come up more than once in the past, it's less likely to be happening again.

Edited by Wintersdark, 14 May 2016 - 11:48 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

It's really not that much bigger with the shoulder incorporated into the ST than your first guess. And the shoulder is so far away from the bulk of the torso that I don't imagine it's going to get shot very often. Same from the side... if you're aiming center mass, you'll probably never get into that pauldron. What it MIGHT have trouble with, though, are incoming LRMs.

All I can say is that the torso has to extend farther into the shoulder than your initial guess, due to the necessities of the additional missile box. It has to support an LRM-20 after all, and not all of the will go up. So the pauldron is the most natural break in the body at that location.

But who really knows. We'll see on the first day of release.

more than likely, I would expect the 3rd launcher in the spot the primary cannon is found, since wwe know that will be an anchor point for the 4x Ballistics model

And considering the real estate being used by the lower SRM6 in the model, I don't expect LRM20s to be too much more massive. Or they'll simply paste them to every flat surface in their usual lazy way.

El Bandito, on 14 May 2016 - 11:22 AM, said:

Only variant I am interested is quad dakka one, so as long as I play smart, I can keep the exposure to minimal amount. Kodiak-3 will be a straight upgrade from my quad CUAC10 Dire Wolf. Plus it has quirks now. Gonna have to wait for it come out in C-Bills though...

I just know some bloke will put quad LB10Xs instead, just because.

Cuz 4 crits!

And better fer legging dem Lights!!!!

Trauglodyte, on 14 May 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Remember that the high points on the Awesome shoulder are ST and not arms. So, if that holds true to the Kodiak, the arms will start at the base of the shoulder and the rest will be ST.

Just remember, guys. The Kodiak isn't, in fact, the Clan Atlas. You need to look at it more like a much heavier Executioner. It has speed and maneuverability for it to get into and out of fights faster. That speed, and MASC, is the added armor and buffs. Everything else is gravy. It is going to be fine and it is going to put a hurt on people. It just won't be an Atlas mech capable for a 4.0 40. That is great because it keeps a different level of flavor which is really important in an otherwise vanilla game.

remember, none of us actually know, so this is all blue sky speculation.

That said, unless PGI is just plain idiotic and wants more QQ, making the Shoulder Pauldron ST would be a very very dumb choice.

[Wintersdark]

Trauglodyte, on 14 May 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Remember that the high points on the Awesome shoulder are ST and not arms. So, if that holds true to the Kodiak, the arms will start at the base of the shoulder and the rest will be ST.

No, they're arm now. They adjusted the Awesome shoulder/arm hitboxes a while ago.

Edited by Wintersdark, 14 May 2016 - 12:09 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

more than likely, I would expect the 3rd launcher in the spot the primary cannon is found, since wwe know that will be an anchor point for the 4x Ballistics model

And considering the real estate being used by the lower SRM6 in the model, I don't expect LRM20s to be too much more massive. Or they'll simply paste them to every flat surface in their usual lazy way.

Like you see on the Spirit Bear pic included with the quirks, they haven't changed their original positioning of the 3rd ST missile slot from our first contact with it, as shown in this "full hardpoints" test. We haven't seen if they're still pushing that hardpoint up when the launcher needs expansion, like you see in this pic. But chances are reasonable that they will look the same at release as they do here, unless PGI pulled their head out of their ***. Hideous.

It would have been MUCH smarter to use the lower Ballistic mount for the 3rd missile slot. I don't know why they didn't.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 14 May 2016 - 12:09 PM.

[Wintersdark]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Like you see on the Spirit Bear pic included with the quirks, they haven't changed their original positioning of the 3rd ST missile slot from our first contact with it, as shown in this "full hardpoints" test. We haven't seen if they're still pushing that hardpoint up when the launcher needs expansion, like you see in this pic. But chances are reasonable that they will look the same at release as they do here, unless PGI pulled their head out of their ***. Hideous.

It would have been MUCH smarter to use the lower Ballistic mount for the 3rd missile slot. I don't know why they didn't.

Means nothing about hitboxes, though. Weapon boxes have their own assignments for hitboxes, underlying base model hitboxes are irrelevant. The weapon could extend into the arm but itself still be ST. A vertically stacking one then would just be a target, which sucks, but at least doesn't need to be used.



An extreme example is the Hunchback 4G, with and without it's shoulder hunch.

Edited by Wintersdark, 14 May 2016 - 12:13 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

No, they're arm now. They adjusted the Awesome shoulder/arm hitboxes a while ago.

I think he means the Pauldrons, the big part of the shoulder.

If those were partially or all Arm, that would make a difference (but how often do you really aim that high? I guess as you start poking/only target)

A reasonable adjustment


A significant adjustment

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

Means nothing about hitboxes, though. Weapon boxes have their own assignments for hitboxes, underlying base model hitboxes are irrelevant. The weapon could extend into the arm but itself still be ST. A vertically stacking one then would just be a target, which sucks, but at least doesn't need to be used.



An extreme example is the Hunchback 4G, with and without it's shoulder hunch.

They do however tend to be entirely a frontal hitbox...

Which reminds me: Why do we still not have any Clam mechs in ANY testing ground map? Just to double check this behaviour.

[Nyte Kitsune]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

I think you're close with this one Bishop. This seems the most likely for the ST hitboxes. Nice highlighting btw. Of course we'll find out in a few days if you're right or not.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nyte Kitsune, on 14 May 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

I think you're close with this one Bishop. This seems the most likely for the ST hitboxes. Nice highlighting btw. Of course we'll find out in a few days if you're right or not.

and hey, I always prepare to be disappointed...thus on the occasions I'm not? It's a happy day.

[Ultimax]

Chimera11, on 14 May 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

I mostly mean that PGI seems far more scared of lasers than ballistics or missiles. Why else would they give the KDK 1 and 5 no quirks but quirk the quad-ballistic KDK 3 monster?

They are, because they are consistently at least 6 months behind where the meta is shifting, which is bizarre as they're the ones introducing the mechs and quirks that shift it.