106 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

I should have realized it earlier, but with the countdown coming and discussion flew, I saw just this morning where the Kodiak's ST Hitboxes start.

As we know, the Kodiak hero, Spirit Bear, has 3M hard points in one ST. when the comparison pictures came up, this was two of them:





and now, look at this Gif Mcgral helped out with for me (I need to work on the rest possibly.):




I'd like to point out the Kodiak's taller side torsos and the fact that, unlike the Atlas, it's ST are higher than it's arms.

What am I getting at, here?

I'm getting at the fact that the Kodiak's ST begin where the Front SRM pack (the one most flat on with us) is, And that it's possible the armsay not be able to spread the damage as a normal Atlas could with it's arms, and that also having a taller ST than the Atlas.

No, this doesn't justify it's quirks, no I'm not defending the quirks, but I am declaring my opinion on where the ST are on the thing.

Yeah, it's going to be a mean SOB, but it'll come at a cost of having taller and more revealing ST than the Atlas.

So now what? we sit and wait, another 4 days before the Kodiak arrives, and everyone can throw in their true two cents as opposed to speculation that we've all been doing.

As for those who already knew or had a general idea: *gives a thumbs up*

As for poor saps like me who forget during the heat of the moment, keep the thing. until it comes out. if you don't like it? Ask for a refund! You can go spend your money on a shiny rounded Night Gyr if you haven't already, and if nothing? Wait for the next mech/mech pack to arrive that fancies you.

[Nerdboard]

I'd be quite glad if you can actually not shield as well with that thing.

At the same time I would have preferred it having lower mounts and being more tanky - like a real Clan Atlas. My unbased prediction for now would be that it is going to be strong and scary but beatable once everyone figures out where to hit. Don't forget that it will be able to run medium to long range loadouts dramatically better than the Atlas.

[Wintersdark]

We already had determined the most likely bounds for the ST hitbox to be along the top edge of the slope from the pauldron. The SRM launcher fits inside that, as one would expect. So, shooting from the side means you're almost certainly hitting arm.

Dollars to donuts, this will be it:

Edited by Wintersdark, 14 May 2016 - 09:29 AM.

[SgtMagor]

ill be using the KDK-2, and Spirit Bear like the Executioner. A Hit N Run skirmisher.

[Bishop Steiner]

it was never going to be 100% protected from teh sides, but if my modeling (which imgur is brainfarting on uploading atm...) is even mostly right, I think the arms are going to do what they should and intercept 75-90% of incoming side fire if you twist well.

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

We already had determined the most likely bounds for the ST hitbox to be along the top edge of the slope from the pauldron. The SRM launcher fits inside that, as one would expect. So, shooting from the side means you're almost certainly hitting arm.

Dollars to donuts, this will be it:

and since the lower launcher is mounted in the ST, it was a given that the side of the belly would be ST too.

for me is how much of the crotch, if any, is ST? Some have it, some don't.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

it was never going to be 100% protected from teh sides, but if my modeling (which imgur is brainfarting on uploading atm...) is even mostly right, I think the arms are going to do what they should and intercept 75-90% of incoming side fire if you twist well.


and since the lower launcher is mounted in the ST, it was a given that the side of the belly would be ST too.

for me is how much of the crotch, if any, is ST? Some have it, some don't.

Yours is so much prettier than mine; I fail at art (and was using MSPaint). But, I'm going to bet for the crotch on what I've shown.

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

it was never going to be 100% protected from teh sides, but if my modeling (which imgur is brainfarting on uploading atm...) is even mostly right, I think the arms are going to do what they should and intercept 75-90% of incoming side fire if you twist well.


and since the lower launcher is mounted in the ST, it was a given that the side of the belly would be ST too.

for me is how much of the crotch, if any, is ST? Some have it, some don't.

I think there is another worrying factor to consider here... the arm boxes on the Atlas are the way they are because of the arm-mounted AMS. We're assuming that the arms on the Kodiak occupy similar proportions. I'm not sure they will becauuse of the placement of the high missile rack on the left shoulder.



Remember that the missile rack extends horizontally, as shown here with the Spirit Bear, in addition to vertically, depending on the rack used.

I fear that because the arm is not mounted to the side of the torso on the Kodiak, as it is with the Atlas, and is instead mounted underneat the torso, that the entire pauldron on the shoulder of the Kodiak might be side torso. I'm willing to bet the side torso break is at that major horizontal line that runs from the lower ballistic mount to the edge of the pauldron. Notice in the side view that the entire geometry of the arm exists below this line.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

Yours is so much prettier than mine; I fail at art (and was using MSPaint). But, I'm going to bet for the crotch on what I've shown.

I am sure there will be but I have yet to decipher the mystical method used to determine Crotch ST and it it's shape and dimensions. And it's somewhat irrelevant when discussing arms since you won't be blocking it anyhow.

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

I think there is another worrying factor to consider here... the arm boxes on the Atlas are the way they are because of the arm-mounted AMS. We're assuming that the arms on the Kodiak occupy similar proportions. I'm not sure they will becauuse of the placement of the high missile rack on the left shoulder.



Remember that the missile rack extends horizontally, as shown here with the Spirit Bear, in addition to vertically, depending on the rack used.

I fear that because the arm is not mounted to the side of the torso on the Kodiak, as it is with the Atlas, and is instead mounted underneat the torso, that the entire pauldron on the shoulder of the Kodiak might be side torso. I'm willing to bet the side torso break is at that major horizontal line that runs from the lower ballistic mount to the edge of the pauldron. Notice in the side view that the entire geometry of the arm exists below this line.

I don't deny this, but if the shoulder pads are ST?

Then despite the QQ; KDK will be DoA.

Hopefully (hopefully) OGI is not THAT thick.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 May 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

I am sure there will be but I have yet to decipher the mystical method used to determine Crotch ST and it it's shape and dimensions. And it's somewhat irrelevant when discussing arms since you won't be blocking it anyhow.

Yeah, it's kind of a "whatever the guy doing it thought at the time"... I'm going by my pic above in that it both gives the KDK a "thong" of sorts, while following natural modeling lines (something they've shown they prefer overall).

It could be totally different, but I think odds are in favour of following the model's lines.

Could also be, for the crotch:

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

I don't deny this, but if the shoulder pads are ST?

Then despite the QQ; KDK will be DoA.

Hopefully (hopefully) OGI is not THAT thick.

This. If they DO go this way, it'll result in screaming bloody murder, then change after; because without the sloped parts being Arm hitbox, Bish here is right: The KDK will be DoA. I don't say that very often, either, but that would be a HUGE disadvantage that would make the side torso hitboxes absurdly and unreasonably large.

It's also pretty likely that they'll follow the Atlas's general hitbox concept, because why not? They're very similarly shaped, and the AS7's hitboxes are ok.

[Metus regem]

I'm 50/50 on the whole shoulder pad being ST, at least during release, maybe adjusted later like the Hellbringer was with CT issues.

[ScarecrowES]

I think, based on the needs of the shoulder missile box, the ST box will end up looking something like the following:




I don't think that would be the end of the world. But it would kinda justify those ST buffs.

[Bishop Steiner]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

I think, based on the needs of the shoulder missile box, the ST box will end up looking something like the following:




I don't think that would be the end of the world. But it would kinda justify those ST buffs.

yes because what...10 pt structure buff will really matter on that huge of a target?

So you think it would have worse torsos than the Atlas and a lot worse structure, too?

[Cy Mitchell]

During the stream Friday night Paul was asked about the quirks on some of the Kodiak variants. He indicated that the Kodiak was meant to be the Clan version of the Atlas but will differ in that it will be able to deal more damage but will be less tanky than the Atlas. The two variants with the high number of energy hardpoints were not given quirks because it was feared that they would be too powerful. He said the Kodiak would be a bit more of a glass cannon in comparison to the Atlas.

This suggest to me that the Kodiak is going to have a bit bigger hit boxes than the Atlas.

I guess we will see when the NEW Clan invasion starts on Tuesday night.

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

yes because what...10 pt structure buff will really matter on that huge of a target?

So you think it would have worse torsos than the Atlas and a lot worse structure, too?

It's really not that much bigger with the shoulder incorporated into the ST than your first guess. And the shoulder is so far away from the bulk of the torso that I don't imagine it's going to get shot very often. Same from the side... if you're aiming center mass, you'll probably never get into that pauldron. What it MIGHT have trouble with, though, are incoming LRMs.

All I can say is that the torso has to extend farther into the shoulder than your initial guess, due to the necessities of the additional missile box. It has to support an LRM-20 after all, and not all of the will go up. So the pauldron is the most natural break in the body at that location.

But who really knows. We'll see on the first day of release.

[cazidin]

What if those pauldrons are considered as part of the arm hitbox? Isn't the Atlas much the same?

[Chimera_]

All I can say is right after the Kodiak ships I'm going to get a few of my unit buddies and laser out the hitboxes.

I'm fine with the Kodiak being noticeably squishier than the Atlas since it has greater firepower, but if a Tier 5 player could easily carve out your STs...

[Ultimax]

There has been an image of the Kodiak with missiles in exactly that spot since the day the store page went live, it's been exceedingly clear that was going to be ST hitbox.


Just be glad it's not one of those giant trashcans added on top of the shoulder that mechs like the Summoner or Griffin get.

[Mcgral18]

Rampage, on 14 May 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

During the stream Friday night Paul was asked about the quirks on some of the Kodiak variants. He indicated that the Kodiak was meant to be the Clan version of the Atlas but will differ in that it will be able to deal more damage but will be less tanky than the Atlas. The two variants with the high number of energy hardpoints were not given quirks because it was feared that they would be too powerful. He said the Kodiak would be a bit more of a glass cannon in comparison to the Atlas.

This suggest to me that the Kodiak is going to have a bit bigger hit boxes than the Atlas.

I guess we will see when the NEW Clan invasion starts on Tuesday night.

Well...the only thing to say to that is LOL
Shame they don't understand their game.

The most potent laservomit I came up with in 30 seconds was 6 MPLs, 2LPL, 29 DHS
(or 28 and a TC1)

Full slot usage, XL400, with no quirks whatsoever.
Banshee-ish mobilty (400 VS 375 banshee, 80 degs VS 90 degs)

So, a 74 damage ghostheatless LOLpha at 69 Kph with among the best cooling in the game, but also a lot of hot weapons

It generates 6*8+10*2 heat
68 heat, nearly 1 to 1 heat to damage

It has a heat cap of 50+19*1.1
=70.9*1.2
=85.08

Dissipation of 4.85*1.15
=~5.58 H/s dissipation


Not weak, but the Tri-Quad UAC10 build just annihilates in in almost every regard (including range, because only MPLs)


Well, I have access to this robot, so I guess I'll try to abuse it a little bit and try to educate PGI on not going full PGI at every opportunity

[ScarecrowES]

cazidin, on 14 May 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

What if those pauldrons are considered as part of the arm hitbox? Isn't the Atlas much the same?

On the Atlas they are, yes... but that's also where the Atlas mounts it's arm-based AMS... so it has to use the pauldrons.

The issue with the Kodiak is where to divide the pauldron, if at all, to support the high-mount ST missile boxes. Just like the Atlas needs the pauldron to be part of the arm because of equipment mounts, the Kodiak needs at least part of the pauldron to be ST.

[Chimera_]

Mcgral18, on 14 May 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

Well...the only thing to say to that is LOL
Shame they don't understand their game.

Yeah, it seems like they tend to listen to the vocal minority of low tier players who still think laser vomit is the ultimate unparalleled meta. Vocal minorities (of both experienced players and new players) can often be the undoing of a game.