79 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Captain Luffy, on 17 May 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

A better mech than Atlas? Check. Yep what I thought it would be too.

An AS7-S is more powerful and tankier, but the Spirit Bear has some flexibility with its extra speed and MASC. I don't know if its better at what the Atlas does though.

[Pocket_Aces]

Quote

[color=#959595]Thats why i carry a UAV on all mechs...instead of typing it just pop the UAV and they see it themselves.[/color]

When there a four behind you push the 8 in front, then turn to engage the ones behind, best. tactic. EVA!!!!!

[Silas7]

xXBagheeraXx, on 17 May 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Cant tank like an atlas but she certainly drives nice and packs a punch. Everything I expected, just gotta wait for quirks to get added to the 2 that dont have them, and mabe a FEW changes to the CT size and it will be perfect....no need to buff or nerf, she will be right where she needs to be.

I'd say this sounds good. Those times when the fight is over and you run into a fresh KDK. ouch!

[davoodoo]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 May 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

Sure, which suits me too. I do think the Clans would like to have one Assault Mech that actually could soak punishment, though, just saying. Kingfisher?

I wonder how would you achieve that?? Structure quirks?? Small ct(not like fatlas is any hard to hit)??

What exactly will make the clan mechs good tanks?? Or at least better than kodiak.

Edited by davoodoo, 18 May 2016 - 01:08 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

I don't have one but I got the impression that they turn much too fast for an assault mech. I know, assault pilots don't like that statement but huge firepower and (compared to others) armour should be bought at a cost.

[Corrado]

the kodiak is what i expected to be. Already done 10 matches in the kdk3 with quad UAC10s 350xl, 900 average damage, 3.9 kdr, a couple of matches above 1300 damage, and another couple of matches with 7 kills each. is really really devastating. all this with just basics (no speedtweak, fast fire yet).

i also did 3 matches in the spirit bear, now running lbx20+4xASRM6, XL400 and masc. i'm sure he can't facetank an AS7-S but the speed and agility really gave me funny matches.

EDIT: the spirit bear will be my heavies/mediums hunter of choice.

Edited by Corrado, 18 May 2016 - 01:13 AM.

[No One Lives Forever]

Well, its OP mech. Nerf's comin.

Edited by No One Lives Forever, 18 May 2016 - 01:22 AM.

[Damien Tokala]

EVERY ATLAS I FOUGHT TODAY IN MY KODIAK HAS DIED!

Yeah, Atlas obsolete.

[Clownwarlord]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 May 2016 - 09:00 PM, said:

An AS7-S is more powerful and tankier, but the Spirit Bear has some flexibility with its extra speed and MASC. I don't know if its better at what the Atlas does though.

Can't hill hump with an Atlas where as you can with a Kodiak and ballistic boat at range. Also many Atlas builds have such a limited range that Kodiak just wins.

AS7-S usual build you find is: 2 medium pulses CT, 4 SRM4s or 6s, and AC20 all have basically an effective range of 270meters.

[L A V A]

Best buy I have made in a long time.

Spirit Bear moving at 90 kph around the corner brings pure brawler heaven!

Six games... 5.50 K/D.

[Sjorpha]

What constitutes a balance problem in a game is the relative dominance of one move in relation to others, and that is a question best answered by looking at how a game piece fares in competitive play over time.

Whether the Kodiak is balanced or not has nothing to do with whether "It can be killed" (as if there ever was a much that couldn't ) or that "It's not a win button" (as if there ever was a mech that was), but somehow those red herrings keeps getting repeated every time a balance issue is discussed.

So the question is, will the Kodiak become a mandatory or excessively dominant assault pick in competitive matches? If thevanswer is yes, we have a balance problem. If the answer is no, then we don't.

Truth be told we have never had a truly broken mech in MWO that's know of, nothing on the level of the cawblade deck in magic that actually broke the game and forced everyone to use it and nothing else for a whole season. You might be able to argue that there has been that kind of dominance for entire tactics like poptarting at times. However, that doesn't mean there aren't balance problems.

For those saying "Finally a viable clan assault", don't you realise that you've just described a huge balance problem with that statement? If only one clan assault is viable that is a big problem, if a mech obseletes mech that had a niche before, like the dire wolf, then that is also a big problem. Should we really put our petty faction squabbles above solving them?

It would be a real shame if the currently rather varied meta would be diluted by a mandatory assault pick just before the big tournament, it would make that tournament pretty boring to watch. I think there is a real risk of this happening with the quirked kodiak-3, of course the testing needs doing and so on. But honestly there is no reason to believe that a mech currently run with basics and little experience will turn out weaker over time, the common sense prediction here is that elite skills and pilots getting used to it will make it a lot stronger than it already seems.

[Speedkermit]

I only managed to get one match with my Kodiaks yesterday (thanks wife), but I liked what I saw.

I don't think it's OP as it does have weaknesses, such as a very large CT. But the firepower you can put on this thing....

[Bohxim]

I feel that it's like basically every assault in general, a great weapons platform. Supported and with some aggro pulled off it, it'll help rekt face. Unsupported it goes down fast.
Sure it packs loads of weapons. But with the clan heat issues there're limits. And at 100 tonnes. It won't tip the balances too much, esp in weight limited drops like group and faction. Wouldn't worry about it being unbalanced
Just my 2 cents
Cheers

[SmoothCriminal]

Two kinds of balance:

QP balance: the KDK can hold its own and dish out a fair amount of damage - but with the caveats above (face time, big CT, large). I'd say it is powerful and maaaybe a tad OP. Only got a few games in on account of the queue and seemed to be feast or famine.

Comp balance: team organisation, range and (if FP) tonnage restrictions means it is not going to upset the meta STKs and TBRs.

What I think people (and PGI perhaps) fail to understand is that there are two quite different games running - disorganised anarchy and coordinated team play.

[L A V A]

Sjorpha, on 18 May 2016 - 02:18 AM, said:

So the question is, will the Kodiak become a mandatory or excessively dominant assault pick in competitive matches? If thevanswer is yes, we have a balance problem. If the answer is no, then we don't.

To be quite honest, I could care less.

If the Kodiak allows me to run an assault without being killed in the first minute of a game by a light pack, then yep, it brings the assaults back into the queue.

If a Spirit Bear (with an LBX-20 and 4 SRM-6s) can lead the charge of a group of heavy brawlers to splat a bunch of campers on the other side with LPLs... well... yea, a brawling dynamic is reintroduced into play and that can only result in variation and fun.

To be quite honest this stuff with poking at long range with large lasers has gotten a bit tiring.

[Sjorpha]

SmoothCriminal, on 18 May 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

Two kinds of balance:

QP balance: the KDK can hold its own and dish out a fair amount of damage - but with the caveats above (face time, big CT, large). I'd say it is powerful and maaaybe a tad OP. Only got a few games in on account of the queue and seemed to be feast or famine.

Comp balance: team organisation, range and (if FP) tonnage restrictions means it is not going to upset the meta STKs and TBRs.

What I think people (and PGI perhaps) fail to understand is that there are two quite different games running - disorganised anarchy and coordinated team play.

If anything, the problem should be bigger in comp than in quick play.

The most relevant comparison I think is the 5ac5 mauler, which is a tier1 comp build on hot and ranged maps. Now the 2uac5, 2uac10 kodiak has three minuses in the comparison, it costs 10 extra tons, shorter effective range and has less concentrated volleys, on the plus side it has more firepower, better heat, better burst DPS, better sustained DPS, better speed, better agility and more armour. Does it balance out? I kinda doubt it, so my prediction is that this is the new dominant midrange DPS mech hands down, if I turn out to be wrong I'll gladly admit it.

[WANTED]

This thing will be the new clan meta in FW. Count on it. I would take this mech in an instant on the FW from what I have seen in quick drop games. Speed, fast torso twist, not as strong as an Atlas structure wise but strong enough, and enough firepower to instant kill most mechs. There is a reason you don't see Atlas much anymore and hardly ever in FW games. I doubt you say the same once the comp teams figure this mech out. Right now they are everywhere so there is an abundance of bad Kodiak pilots and some good to great ones. My games the Kodiaks are super dominating the field with extremely high damage and kills in quick drop games at Tier 3.

[Sjorpha]

L A V A, on 18 May 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

If a Spirit Bear (with an LBX-20 and 4 SRM-6s) can lead the charge of a group of heavy brawlers to splat a bunch of campers on the other side with LPLs... well... yea, a brawling dynamic is reintroduced into play and that can only result in variation and fun.

Brawling is already very strong, you see a huge amount of srm decks in coordinated play. As usual quick play lags behind but will catch up after a while. That delay is why you don't balance around quick play, it is always running yesterday's meta and if you try to balance around it you end up going to far and creating a new dominant metagame down the road.

I really doubt the spirit bear will be a balance problem, it's great to see a workable clan srm assault and it looks well balanced against the atlas brawlers so far (quick vs tanky, reasonable tradeoff) and think both will continue to see play. The eventual problem I think will arise in the mid to long range brackets, not with brawling.

You shouldn't think too much about the raw strength of a mech to determine if there is a problem, because the more narrow the niche is the more powerful you can allow it to be in that niche. Take the dire wolf for example, even when it was at it's peak it was always in a narrow inch due to the slow speed and clumsiness, therefore the extreme firepower was never a big balance problem, just a special thing that only it could do. The spirit bear can be a strong brawler, that's ok because first assault brawling is a narrow niche, second there is already a very strong is assault brawler and third it doesn't really obselete anything due to being pretty unique. The 3 is potentially problematic because it may obselete both the dire wolf and the mauler in comp, that would be true even if the spirit bear is strictly more powerful actually, that's why you have to think in terms of dominant game moves rather than just strength.

Edited by Sjorpha, 18 May 2016 - 04:23 AM.

[Malachy Karrde]

Yup the kodiak is what I expected. Nothing special. All the hype about how it was gonna make dire wolves obsolete was a load of crap. It still can't match the loadout I carry on my.dire wolf or defend itself against it. Shoot the center torso and they die..fast. the kdk needs more quirks imo.

[HerrRed]

Malachy Karrde, on 18 May 2016 - 04:26 AM, said:

Yup the kodiak is what I expected. Nothing special. All the hype about how it was gonna make dire wolves obsolete was a load of crap. It still can't match the loadout I carry on my.dire wolf or defend itself against it. Shoot the center torso and they die..fast. the kdk needs more quirks imo.

While in the open that could be true, with terrain the opposite is true. Last night I had a duel with a daka DW in my kdk3 (we both had 4 UAC10) and the DW lost bad. I started by corner piking and send a double tap his way, then torso twist behind cover. Then while his guns were recycling, I charged and pelted it with UAC10 on CT. Torso twisted to spread his damage and then I fired agai n he died. The difference in agility is too big. Plus, the kdk 3 has higher weapon mounts and structure quirks so all things being the same, it just lasts more time for comparable firepower.