102 replies to this topic

[Ubertron X]

Xandre I dont think that "1 LRM 20 RA + 1 LRM 15 LA is a good compromise" will work very well given the usual ammo rules. If you buy LRM20 ammo you'll get 6 volleys per ton of ammo (for a total of 120 rockets). A LRM15 has 8 volleys per ton (again for a total of 120 rockets).

However normally it is not allowed to mix ammo and / or to cross-feed ammo between differently sized launchers.

But perhaps the finial version of the game will just count "total missiles", not "missiles per launcher", who knows.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Ubertron X, on 15 July 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

Xandre I dont think that "1 LRM 20 RA + 1 LRM 15 LA is a good compromise" will work very well given the usual ammo rules. If you buy LRM20 ammo you'll get 6 volleys per ton of ammo (for a total of 120 rockets). A LRM15 has 8 volleys per ton (again for a total of 120 rockets).

However normally it is not allowed to mix ammo and / or to cross-feed ammo between differently sized launchers.

But perhaps the finial version of the game will just count "total missiles", not "missiles per launcher", who knows.

According to the original TT rules it wasn't. From things I've read I've come to the conclusion that in MWO LRM's will pull from a common pool of ammo.

Even if it doesn't that's still 12 salvos for the LRM 20 and 16 for the LRM 15. Still seems like a significant improvement over 8 salvos from each LRM 15 in the original model.

[Skygge06]

No one has pointed out that the OP fairly clearly points out that they are in the beta? Devs gimme their spot plzzzzxorz.

[Cid]

Heimdall Kerensky, on 16 July 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

No one has pointed out that the OP fairly clearly points out that they are in the beta? Devs gimme their spot plzzzzxorz.

sometimes i really wish there was a dislike function...

[Xune]

Nice read, enjoyed it.

I For my part thing the XL engine is viable on the Pult since you should not take most of the heat anyway.
Personaly i would strip down 2 of the lasers and get more amonition for the LRM, Since they are why you are on the field anyway.
Jumpjets.. o no i like them, they stay. And even if its for a sudicial attemp of Death from Above when im out of Lrms

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Given the crits, DHS would help, as would Artemis IV to increase the number of missiles hitting. I would be tempted to keep both 15s for more ammo. Endo steel frees up some tonnage so you could go to 2 x LL and keep the JJs for better manouverability.There are many options, its a case of playing around in game with the standard mech first to see how it plays before tweaking to suit your requirements.
Playing fire support in an organised company allows you to make changes based on knowing you will have scout support and protection. Playing in a PUG would require a different build as you couldn't guarantee having a bodyguard.

[Kerzin]

Nicely thought out post and a good read.

I must agree with others though and advise you leave the LRM-15’s installed you get 2 more salvoes per shot/ton of ammo (LRM-20 6/ton vs LRM-15 8/ton), 2 points less heat per salvo (it’s not much but it will add up), and gives you back 3 ton allowing you to mount two Artemis system helping you're LRM DPS far more than a signal (or even double LRM-20’s).

If staying power and damage on target is what you’re looking for it’s a better build IMO depending on how Artemis/ECM is implemented in game.

Edited by Kerzin, 16 July 2012 - 05:53 AM.

[frostfly]

I'm still baffled by people thinking the catapult is a support/artillery mech. It's got 8!! rounds for the LRMs. That's enough to soften up a decent sized target, that's it. The true value of the catapult is after you empty out the LRMs and are a jumping heat tight ML toting brawler. It's an easy mech to augment..and i wouldn't bother with the LRMs. Double the heat sinks, drop 3, add 3 MLs. Mission done, best mech currently in game.

[Powerax]

After reading this I kind of liked how you set up your Cata, though I would of went twin 15 for more ammo. Also I might remove the large lazer and keep the quad Med's for extra damage. Also try to keep the jump jets to reach areas that are not so easy to transverse with conventional movement and (do not know if it is implemented) keep a close range option if the enemy gets to close with DFA.

[Squiggy McPew]

Great jebus christy after reading these threads I can't wait to get in the real mechlab..

[Dimestore]

Xandre Blackheart, on 15 July 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Before I can answer that question, I need to know what is meant by Support. Everyone seems to toss that term around, but what does it mean? I'm of the opinion it comes from the term Fire Support. The interesting point here is the quote "...is used to shape the battlefield or, more optimistically, define the battle."

Well that certainly makes the support role sound important. The application of firepower from a distant point allows the individual directing the fire to shape the battle. But how?

Well if you can hit your enemy, and he can't strike back at you, you have just forced your enemy to make a decision. He has to either retreat, advance to a range he can retaliate from, or sit there and take it. Congratulations, you have just shaped the battle. Of course, picking the right target will be critical, and the right location to fire from also.

The long-range indirect fire nature of artillery/missile support adds the ability for highly mobile fire-power. You don't waste time gaining LOS on each battle you want to involve your support mech in, you just change targets and get a teammate to spot for you. If multiple battles are raging at the same time you can place your mech in range of all of them and switch your support targets back & forth as opportunity & expediency dictate. A well-oiled scout/support combo can be a major problem for a much larger force, especially if the supports have a few heavy/assault defenders.

Xandre Blackheart, on 15 July 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

The first assumption that jumps out is the lack of jumpjets. (sorry, bad pun) We are obviously assuming that they are not needed in a support role. Useful yes, but necessary? The assumption is that the increased weapons load and ammunition is going to be more useful.

This could be problematic depending upon the map. As I imply above, placing your support mechs can be vital and they might need to move to odd locations to be able to fire on multiple battlefields in the scenario where they're supporting all of them at once.

Xandre Blackheart, on 15 July 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

The ECM suite should foil tagging scouts, allowing you (or more hopefully your screen) more time to deal with them before the enemy fire support can lock onto your position. This should give you more time to do your job and hopefully, shape the battle.

This is an excellent idea which, as a scout, I hope few support mechs think of.

<edit: grammar for clarity>

Edited by Hax DB Header, 16 July 2012 - 08:27 AM.

[Ko Time]

Gonna run my catapult stck till i unlock DHS and FF armor. Drop the standard 15 HS to 12 double, replace the standard armor with 9 tons FF bump ammo to 4 tons. That should hold for a bit.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Heimdall Kerensky, on 16 July 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

No one has pointed out that the OP fairly clearly points out that they are in the beta? Devs gimme their spot plzzzzxorz.

Actually I was fairly clear in pointing out that I was not in beta, as I was bored and there is a founder's catapult just sitting in my garage. I was even more specific in the earlier theorycrafting post on the Atlas.

Beta must be like crack, I can picture you shaking and jerking outside the crackhouse pounding on the door...

Xune, on 16 July 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

Nice read, enjoyed it.

I For my part thing the XL engine is viable on the Pult since you should not take most of the heat anyway.
Personaly i would strip down 2 of the lasers and get more amonition for the LRM, Since they are why you are on the field anyway.
Jumpjets.. o no i like them, they stay. And even if its for a sudicial attemp of Death from Above when im out of Lrms

You might look at just dropping the Large Laser to a Medium Laser That would give you back the 4 tons you need for Jump jets.

Edited by Xandre Blackheart, 16 July 2012 - 12:15 PM.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Kerzin, on 16 July 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Nicely thought out post and a good read.

I must agree with others though and advise you leave the LRM-15’s installed you get 2 more salvoes per shot/ton of ammo (LRM-20 6/ton vs LRM-15 8/ton), 2 points less heat per salvo (it’s not much but it will add up), and gives you back 3 ton allowing you to mount two Artemis system helping you're LRM DPS far more than a signal (or even double LRM-20’s).

If staying power and damage on target is what you’re looking for it’s a better build IMO depending on how Artemis/ECM is implemented in game.

I dislike depending on Atremis, particularly because you need LOS (allegedly). One of the reasons I opted for the marginal gain of the LRM 20 was to increase the shock value of getting hit to some degree. The effect of taking fire when you have no idea where it is coming from is a very demorializing feeling, and the heavier it is, the more a target is likely to panic and make a poor decision.

frostfly, on 16 July 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

I'm still baffled by people thinking the catapult is a support/artillery mech. It's got 8!! rounds for the LRMs. That's enough to soften up a decent sized target, that's it. The true value of the catapult is after you empty out the LRMs and are a jumping heat tight ML toting brawler. It's an easy mech to augment..and i wouldn't bother with the LRMs. Double the heat sinks, drop 3, add 3 MLs. Mission done, best mech currently in game.

You can turn it into a brawler sure. But there are even better brawlers in the weight class, and only a few support platforms that are as effective.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Too much text. For mine I'm just going to yank out all the weapons and heatsinks, put in LRM 20s and double heatsinks, then put some lasers back in with the remaining weight. I might also use an XL Engine to save more weight. The end result will be me having dual LRM 20s with 2 or 3 lasers, depending on weight restrictions. Naturally I'll have a lot of ammo because firing off missiles at max range will be the intent. I'll likely pack CASE too but that will depend on how much attention I get from enemies. I expect newb enemies to just ignore me while later on skilled enemies actually try to come to me over my team mates first.(Meaning forget CASE early on but get it later whenever it becomes needed) I may or may not keep the jets; it's going to depend on how useful they are in the environments at giving me a vantage point to shoot from.(Or they might be useful to get away from enemies by hopping over terrain)

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

frostfly, on 16 July 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

I'm still baffled by people thinking the catapult is a support/artillery mech. It's got 8!! rounds for the LRMs. That's enough to soften up a decent sized target, that's it. The true value of the catapult is after you empty out the LRMs and are a jumping heat tight ML toting brawler. It's an easy mech to augment..and i wouldn't bother with the LRMs. Double the heat sinks, drop 3, add 3 MLs. Mission done, best mech currently in game.

The default build is a mixture between lasers and missiles, that is true, but you can edit its loadout to be full missile firepower if you want. There's no one stopping you from adding more ammo or bigger LRMs. Mine will personally have LRM 20s+lots of ammo. His hard and numerous barrages over terrain will be quite the problem for enemy teams.

[Uri Brauer]

It should be pointed out that making asymmetric Catapults is both immoral and fattening.

[Soviet Alex]

Don't rely on any build which requires advanced tech. At this point only the beta-players have any idea if starting players have access to that sort of thing, & they aren't talking. For example, just because XL-engines have been confirmed as being in the game, doesn't mean everyone can buy one on Day 1. You may have to grind like crazy or open your wallet to get the shiny new tech.

In the mean time, check out Solaris Skunk Werks for all your mech design needs.

[Rashhaverak]

If you really want to fulfill the support role, then I might ask you to consider that the only reason you need any energy weapons is so that you can stand off against any scout that comes upon your position, and so that you are not entirely useless when you actually do run out of ammo.

Given that fact, you might opt for only two mediums and stack more ammo.

I wonder if you could really set the catapult up as heavy fire support and replace the four MLs with a PPC?

I so can't wait to have access to a real mechlab!

[Aneas]

Support Catapult with LRM 10s:

replace LRM 15's with LRM 10's - 4 tons of ammo - 24 salvos
strip out jump jets, add three tons armor and 1 HS (for a total of 16 HS)
replace 2 CT lasers with Medium Pulse Lasers.

This will allow me to support for longer and the extra armor will help surviveability. the only andvanced tech used is the pulse lasers, if these are not available or cause too much heat, then use medium lasers.