102 replies to this topic

[Soviet Alex]

@ Grey Rabbit & Jakob Knight: Time & time again we've been told that the hardpoint system should make all of a mech's variants from Battletech doable in MW-O. Based on that, I would expect that either the Catapult has 2 missile HP in each arm, or the "Butterbee" is a variant. But I would be very surprised if it can't be done.

[fluffypinkbunny]

I like the idea of jump jets, they just make the catapult. I will also be piloting with the understanding that somebody else will be watching. I can take out my short range weapons, and put in more ammo. My sister will watch the up close combat, so it's a trade off. She'll be running around doing her own thing, mostly, but if somebody comes close, she'll be there for support.

[Strikhedonia]

Brenden, on 18 July 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

And occasionally perform a DFA, don't you think? Also, people don't give the C1 enough credit, and would perfer to op it out with for one with PPCs.

Find an elevated hide with good cover and shut down. Let your team make contact and have them lead a few mechs into valley beneath you. Then power up, alpha strike one and DFA the other.

And then die, because now you're in a C1 in the middle of a fight. It would be a glorious death though.

Is DFA possible in the game? I haven't read anything to that effect.

[Graphite]

Soviet Alex, on 18 July 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

@ Grey Rabbit & Jakob Knight: Time & time again we've been told that the hardpoint system should make all of a mech's variants from Battletech doable in MW-O. Based on that, I would expect that either the Catapult has 2 missile HP in each arm, or the "Butterbee" is a variant. But I would be very surprised if it can't be done.

Yes, the 1:1 hardpoint assumption is wrong (at least for large and medium sized weapons).

See here: http://mwomercs.com/...-mechlab-video/

[Khobai]

Does the catapult have more missile hardpoints than the trebuchet? because if both the catapult and trebuchet have 2 missile hardpoints why would you ever use a catapult over a trebuchet? Its not nearly as fast or good at hit-and-run... and has the same missile loadout.

[TheCerpent]

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[color=#959595]Does the catapult have more missile hardpoints than the trebuchet? because if both the catapult and trebuchet have 2 missile hardpoints why would you ever use a catapult over a trebuchet? Its not nearly as fast or good at hit-and-run... and has the same missile loadout. [/color]

Trebuchet has no jump jets. Also has a lot less armor than the catapult, and is 15 tons lighter, meaning that it is harder to upgrade its LRM capabilities.

[TheCerpent]

On a side note, for a wacky turnaround on the CPT-C1, swap out the LRM-15s for four SRM-4s*, and stick some Large Lasers or PPCs into the torso. That'll confuse them!



*assuming, of course, at least two missile hardpoints per arm.

[Khobai]

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Trebuchet has no jump jets. Also has a lot less armor than the catapult, and is 15 tons lighter, meaning that it is harder to upgrade its LRM capabilities.

Yeah but the Trebuchet is much faster and has a smaller profile so its far less likely to get hit. Also the lack of jumpjets isnt really a big deal when you can fire indirectly with LRMs anyway. The Catapult seems a little disappointing to me as a missile boat.

[Baoman]

If you really want to maximize your effectiveness, I would recommend dropping the speed. Go from a 260 standard to a 190 which only weighs 4.5 tons.

48-ish kph is all a fire support unit really needs as your LRMs can go out around 1 KM and fire indirectly.

Swap both Lrm 15's for 20's, drop the jump jets and keep the same armor load.

TO go even further, drop the 4 med lasers to 2.

After that it's a matter of loading yourself up with a combo of heat sinks and ammunition with your remaining weight.

If you talk to any Beta players they will all tell you to pack lots of ammo. NO Ammo = no fire support

Now if you want to go direct fire support, that is lots of fun. The catapult c-1 is the only jump jet mech currently that can mount at least 2 ppcs. Would make it better than even the venerable K2, sans the lack of aiming mobility due to using torso mounts instead of arms.

Edited by Baoman, 18 July 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[Khobai]

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If you really want to maximize your effectiveness, I would recommend dropping the speed. Go from a 260 standard to a 190 which only weighs 4.5 tons.

48-ish kph is all a fire support unit really needs as your LRMs can go out around 1 KM and fire indirectly.

Swap both Lrm 15's for 20's, drop the jump jets and keep the same armor load.

Yeah that makes a lot more sense... the stock variant of the catapult is basically just a worse trebuchet. I like your variant much better,

[Graphite]

Khobai, on 18 July 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Does the catapult have more missile hardpoints than the trebuchet? because if both the catapult and trebuchet have 2 missile hardpoints why would you ever use a catapult over a trebuchet? Its not nearly as fast or good at hit-and-run... and has the same missile loadout.

Well each to his own I suppose, but I'd prefer the catapult: an extra 15 tons means I'm going to fit more armour and weaponry than a trebuchet can.

[TheCerpent]

The other thing, Khobai, is that the Catapult has 10 tons armor base, while the Trebuchet has 7.5. The catapult also has 5 more heat sinks, and another medium laser (Trebuchet only has 10 heat sinks, meaning that its heat load is double its diffusion without double heat sinks). That's the numbers you won't see on Sarna.net.

Catapult can change to double heat sinks and save five tons (by dropping the extra 5, allowing for five more tons of ammo/weapon upgrades). Trebuchet wouldn't gain any tonnage from doubles. Trebuchet is also only one speed increment faster than the Catapult, and most people will tell you that a mech with jump jets is more maneuverable than a slightly faster one without them. I mean, who can get past a steep hill faster: the guy who can run around it a bit quicker, or the guy who can just jump over it?

I understand if you still prefer the Trebuchet. But there may be things you didn't consider.

[Khobai]

Quote

The other thing, Khobai, is that the Catapult has 10 tons armor base, while the Trebuchet has 7.5. The catapult also has 5 more heat sinks, and another medium laser (Trebuchet only has 10 heat sinks, meaning that its heat load is double its diffusion without double heat sinks). That's the numbers you won't see on Sarna.net.

Well im still not entirely sure how hardpoints work either. Theres some confusion as to whether you get 3 hardpoints per weapon or if hardpoints are 1:1. If theyre 1:1 then that really punishes heavy and assault mechs and prevents them from using their tonnage optimally. If that's the case I do think the Trebuchet will end up being better.

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2012 - 09:24 PM.

[Graphite]

Khobai, on 18 July 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Well im still not entirely sure how hardpoints work either. Theres some confusion as to whether you get 3 hardpoints per weapon or if hardpoints are 1:1. If theyre 1:1 then that really punishes heavy and assault mechs and prevents them from using their tonnage optimally. The games going to heavily favor lights and mediums if it does end up being 1:1.

Given the three pieces of evidence against 1:1 (including a dev post) and the apparent complete and total lack of evidence suggesting 1:1, I think the safest guess at the moment is multiple hardpoints per official weapon.
http://mwomercs.com/...-mechlab-video/

[TheCerpent]

I've been assuming about n+1 hardpoints per weapon type, where n = number of weapons of that type in that location.

[JFlash49]

except for the mistake in specs. pretty good post (Y)

[Khobai]

Well hopefully they arnt 1:1 then. When you design mechs you generally want all your weapons fire in the same range band. If hardpoints end up being 1:1 you'd have to mix and match weapons from different range bands, which wouldn't be good. If you can missileboat the catapult that would make it better than the trebuchet.

[Xune]

Khobai, on 18 July 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Well hopefully they arnt 1:1 then. When you design mechs you generally want all your weapons fire in the same range band. If hardpoints end up being 1:1 you'd have to mix and match weapons from different range bands, which wouldn't be good. If you can missileboat the catapult that would make it better than the trebuchet.

Hello NO ! Thats exactly what they try to prevent for a good reason.

Cant you remember the 4 LRM20 Longbows in earlyer games ? 1 Shot, shutdown, boot up, second shot, watch enemy die.


Or worse the hated 8 ER-Laser snipers.

Split weapon hardpoints are there for a reason

[Tori Migaku]

I'm hoping for it to have 4 missile hard points so I can make a closeapult with 4 srm 6's.

But if it doesn't i will just settle with 2.

Edited by methebest, 18 July 2012 - 11:16 PM.

[Khobai]

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Split weapon hardpoints are there for a reason

I understand why hardpoints exist. i wasnt saying we shouldnt have hardpoints. I was saying hardpoints shouldnt be 1:1.