100 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Well, we haven't had a Tier thread in a while. All this stuff about supply crates, you know?

Anyway, this is something I haven't done in a while. Start an alt account and just try things out at Tier 5 / Tier 4, for fun. Because the more I play in Tier 1, the more I'm convinced that the Tier system is a lie. A lot of you may have had the same experience as me. You got to Tier 2 and the teamplay was like watching a herd of wilderbeasts covered in petrol and set on fire. So you expected things to be better at Tier 1, only to find out that it's basically like Tier 2, but with more meta-builds and the occasional risk of running into some pr0 comp player who plays MWO like they're training for the Olympics.

Ok, I'm exaggerating. It's really not that bad. It's just... underwhelming. Generally, there's a lot of angry people calling each other fools and saying "Thanks a lot, guys" sarcastically. But then you try to play Tier 5 / Tier 4 for a little while and it's basically like stepping into the Twilight zone. Everything is the same, but completely different. People sound normal talking over VOIP, but their mechs are just aimlessly wandering around, like zombies. It's so strange how different the game is.

I mean, I guess it's mostly made up of new players and I was no better when I was new at the game (I'm not even a very good player right now), so I'm not making fun of anyone. I'm just saying that I have underestimated just how enormous the change is from Tier 4 to Tier 1. I really recommend trying it, if you're an MWO nerd and you've got time to waste.

Slightly amusing anecdote below:

Spoiler

We drop on Alpine Peaks. My team drops in the east and we take up position in K9. The enemy is spotted in J6-J7, across the open plains.

A guy takes command, orders Bravo and Charlie lance with heavies and assaults to form a line. Alpha lance, with lights and mediums, is ordered to move to F10. In other words, literally as far away from the enemy drop zone as possible, all the way on the other side of the map.

I ask why. "Fast mechs are going to flank the enemy." I say it's going to take them forever to get to the other side of the map. "Yeah, well, they're fast mechs. They'll get there quickly." Nobody listens to the drop commander, fortunately. Everyone holds position.

So I laugh, but I see that the enemy is scattered and out of position, so I eventually I get tired of waiting and I charge towards the closest, isolated mechs. And my drop commander calls for everyone to hold their line, which means nobody's following me (not sure if they would have anyway) as I charge across the open fields. I'm pinned down, fighting off vultures one by one, while trying to dodge missiles. And just as I'm laughing to myself, what happens?

The enemy lights and mediums appear in K11, behind our lines. The enemy Alpha lance actually made a wide pass over the Alpine peaks like frickin Hannibal attacking Rome with elephants. Because this is Tier 4 Bizzaro world where anything can happen. And our drop commander is like "I told you so! See, we got outflanked and now our lines are breaking!"

And in this weird universe where 2+2=5, he is entirely correct. Suddenly our team breaks into chaos, because 3 enemy mechs somehow snuck behind us by doing a 10 kilometer flanking maneuver. And I'm standing alone in J7, with egg on my face.

Finally, after killing a couple of guys who came looking for me, I find the resolve to push forward alone (more or less) and I run into a fresh King Crab and a Warhammer. F*CK!!



Except they don't even notice me as I run towards them. And the rest of the enemy team is gone. They've all scattered across the map, for some reason. So I just keep trucking, move right past them and start attacking them from behind.

And then my teams starts pushing, after dealing with enemy lights. So we smash the Warhammer and King Crab together, and then we run down and kill the rest of the enemy team. In the end, we win 12-1, even with Captain-General Magoo leading us to victory.



Just such a weird match.

TL;DR - Tier 4/5 is a crazy place and the teamwork at Tier 1/2 is better than you think, relatively speaking.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 13 May 2016 - 07:52 AM.

[SilentWolff]

Ahh, tier 4 and 5. Where the game is actually fun to play.

[Alistair Winter]

SilentWolff, on 13 May 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Ahh, tier 4 and 5. Where the game is actually fun to play.

It's certainly fun. A different kind of fun though.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 13 May 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

It's certainly fun. A different kind of fun though.

Only winning by the most direct and copypasta route possible is fun.

So is the decree of the Overlords of Mt Tryhard.

Challenging yourself by playing suboptimal builds, playing for fluff, etc, is the thing of feeble minds.

#Meta4Lyf

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 May 2016 - 08:01 AM.

[xTrident]

Alistair Winter, on 13 May 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

It's certainly fun. A different kind of fun though.

Going from tier 3 to tier 2 I noticed a huge difference. Went from much more competitive games (being such a big change and the skill level or whatever I'm fighting against now I'm convinced tier 3 is where I belong) to many many more stomps - not in my favor.

I've basically taken a break from playing the game at least four times a week usually more to once a week now. I really don't care for the tier system.

[Metus regem]

I like it down in T4, I see mechs you don't see in higher ends, like Vindicators, Sad Cats and Dragons... Mind you when I do play a pug match, I'm on the better end of the Blue team in terms of kills done, but I never do much damage... I'm too efficient.

[Widowmaker1981]

SilentWolff, on 13 May 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Ahh, tier 4 and 5. Where the game is actually fun to play.

I assume by that you mean the only way the game is fun is when you are curbstomping people?

T5 and T4 are an absolute joke for any actually decent player... we are talking 700-900 AVERAGE damage for my heavies and assaults on my alt account.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 13 May 2016 - 08:08 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 May 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Challenging yourself by playing suboptimal builds, playing for fluff, etc, is the thing of feeble minds.

Honestly? People who can't get to Tier 1 by playing suboptimal builds need to git gud

Anyway, this thread isn't about comparing epeens, it's about how different the gameplay is. I think a lot of people are underestimating just what kind of a job the MM is doing. We can call it an XP bar and says that it doesn't do anything, but people need to play Tier 5/4 extensively, at different hours, to appreciate what it's like.

Metus regem, on 13 May 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

I like it down in T4, I see mechs you don't see in higher ends, like Vindicators, Sad Cats and Dragons... Mind you when I do play a pug match, I'm on the better end of the Blue team in terms of kills done, but I never do much damage... I'm too efficient.

I'm not saying it's less fun, at all. But it's a different kind of fun. It's like company softball.

And I did encounter some good players, so I'm not saying all T4 players are bad. I'm just saying that there's a huuuuge difference between how matches play out at T4 compared to T1, and people need to recognize that Matchmaker is actually doing something. Even though it's a fairly popular "fact" that matchmaker is a joke.

[shadowcat67]

I tried an alt account but went to tier 3 in 4 games with trial mechs, so did not see the fun in continuing.
Figured it was more worth while learning to play at tier 2 where I am at currently.
Also felt somewhat slime taking away from the people learning to play at that level.

[SilentWolff]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 May 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

I assume by that you mean the only way the game is fun is when you are curbstomping people?

T5 and T4 are an absolute joke for any actually decent player... we are talking 700-900 AVERAGE damage for my heavies and assaults on my alt account.

If I'm playing t4-t5 I'm doing it on an alt account, with no mechs, no pilots skills, no modules and I ain't playing meta. So there is a bit of a challenge to it. You also get to see a wide range of mechs and weapons you just don't see in the t1 meta game. I find it refreshing and fun. Not the stale gameplay of the higher tiers, where it's always the same mechs, same weapons and same strats.

[Alistair Winter]

shadowcat67, on 13 May 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

I tried an alt account but went to tier 3 in 4 games with trial mechs, so did not see the fun in continuing.
Figured it was more worth while learning to play at tier 2 where I am at currently.
Also felt somewhat slime taking away from the people learning to play at that level.

Yeah, it used to be like that. But they changed it, so new players stay at Tier 4 longer. I think I've played 10 games and I'm still at Tier 4 (at like 99% though). And early matches are weighed heavily, so while the wins count a lot, the losses will also slow down the process a lot too.

I agree that there's little fun to be had farming new players. But as an experiment, this was pretty enlightening.

[TyphonCh]

That's so funny. How did those two guys not see the smoking wreck of an EBJ?
I made an alt to run with my girlfriend. But you're right... it's a weird feeling. I play, and I expect people to know what to do. Then they don't. It's comical. Good light mechs single handedly turn the tide of battle because everyone will ALWAYS chase the first thing they see. Every man for himself!!!

[Paitr aConn]

Perhaps its because in t1, everyone thinks that since theyre so good everoyone should naturally follow them, thus causing even worse teamwork than people who arent very good but are willing to follow someone if they are given the opportunity to.

Edited by Stone Davion, 13 May 2016 - 08:26 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 13 May 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

Honestly? People who can't get to Tier 1 by playing suboptimal builds need to git gud

Anyway, this thread isn't about comparing epeens, it's about how different the gameplay is. I think a lot of people are underestimating just what kind of a job the MM is doing. We can call it an XP bar and says that it doesn't do anything, but people need to play Tier 5/4 extensively, at different hours, to appreciate what it's like.


I'm not saying it's less fun, at all. But it's a different kind of fun. It's like company softball.

And I did encounter some good players, so I'm not saying all T4 players are bad. I'm just saying that there's a huuuuge difference between how matches play out at T4 compared to T1, and people need to recognize that Matchmaker is actually doing something. Even though it's a fairly popular "fact" that matchmaker is a joke.

Makes me wonder how much of upper tierage occurs BECAUSE of team play over individual skill at time. I've had some very good teammates who were actualyl average players if you dueled them, but very good "soldiers" as it were. I've also seen some people play very impressively but with middling Tier ratings, who have stayed middle tiers for a long time.

Since Tiers still focus too much on the win, and not individual accomplishments, it's hard for me to consider them too indicative of actual skill (I've played against some very unimpressive tier 1s, and been mopped by 4s and probably 5s, at times).

Makes me think that teamwork (which is vital) is the most important determination of tiers, as PUG play tends to have a much lower win percentage in my experience than team play. If that is true, then it would only support your experience...team 1-2 have better teamplay, because to get there you usually have to play a fair bit of team play. A few might knuckle themselves up to tier 1 on pure pug play, but I would be willing to bet that's a very rare exception.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 May 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[GreenHell]

I've worked my way up to T2 on solo pug drops and small (usually 4 man) group drops. I wasn't actually trying to gain ranking though. I just wanted to have fun. Turns out, when you find your favorite mech and play it a lot... You gain ranking a lot faster than you'd like and end up in high tier playing with/against EMP or 228 or HHoD all the time. I don't wanna be on Mt. Tryhard. I wanna be in Fun-Land where I don't get yelled at by forum warriors for not being super meta-tryhard. I like silly builds and fun builds. I don't wanna 'Laser-Vomit' every match. We need a 'Ladder-Queue' for the tryhards, and a normal queue for everyone else.

[Widowmaker1981]

GreenHell, on 13 May 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

EMP or 228 or HHoD

one of those tags seems a bit out of place...

[GreenHell]

Every team has their top players lol. Just tossing tags out there as examples anyways. Hell, even we have a few T1's on our team.

[Bishop Steiner]

GreenHell, on 13 May 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

I've worked my way up to T2 on solo pug drops and small (usually 4 man) group drops. I wasn't actually trying to gain ranking though. I just wanted to have fun. Turns out, when you find your favorite mech and play it a lot... You gain ranking a lot faster than you'd like and end up in high tier playing with/against EMP or 228 or HHoD all the time. I don't wanna be on Mt. Tryhard. I wanna be in Fun-Land where I don't get yelled at by forum warriors for not being super meta-tryhard. I like silly builds and fun builds. I don't wanna 'Laser-Vomit' every match. We need a 'Ladder-Queue' for the tryhards, and a normal queue for everyone else.

trust me, I didn't get to midpoint of tier 2 (and still gaining, in a sloth like manner, lol) on purpose. I play what I want to play at the time, PUG 99% of the time for the last 2 years since my unit dissolved (haven't really looked for a unit since, in part because I like the "freedom" of pugging, in regards to time, but also because I haven't found the right mix of personalities, overall to make me want to commit.), and experiment waaaaay too much. I actually had the most fun the short time my clan acct was Tier 4.... not because of the matches being easier... but because I saw a lot more diversity.

The play level is undeniably higher at the top end. But It's also largely, (to me) stale. That is as much PGIs fault as the players, though, with our never ending issues with balance and uber metas.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 May 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[El Bandito]

GreenHell, on 13 May 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

I've worked my way up to T2 on solo pug drops and small (usually 4 man) group drops. I wasn't actually trying to gain ranking though. I just wanted to have fun. Turns out, when you find your favorite mech and play it a lot... You gain ranking a lot faster than you'd like and end up in high tier playing with/against EMP or 228 or HHoD all the time. I don't wanna be on Mt. Tryhard. I wanna be in Fun-Land where I don't get yelled at by forum warriors for not being super meta-tryhard. I like silly builds and fun builds. I don't wanna 'Laser-Vomit' every match. We need a 'Ladder-Queue' for the tryhards, and a normal queue for everyone else.

It's actually more about skill, than build in T1. With some amount of situational awareness, map knowledge, and steady hands, usually things turn out to be fine, even in a Locust. Most of my recent mechs have 2:1 WLR without any laser vomit or dakka config. I never seen people get yelled at their builds unless they have LRM15s with no back up weapons on an Orion, or something. So yeah, bring fun builds by all means--just stay sharp.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 May 2016 - 06:17 PM.

[Felio]

I miss tier 4 bizarroland so much. It was a mixture of every kind of player. And people didn't shout down the noobs, they gave them advice. Advice like "you are out of range for that weapon."

I wish tiers were set competitively like a ladder ranking rather than an XP bar. The top 20% of online players in tier 1, the bottom 20% in tier 5, etc.