189 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

live1991, on 21 May 2016 - 03:23 AM, said:

You do not understand this mech.

The List is for good mechs over 750M, which this mech still does ( +mods)

The Hard points, Poking, moving damage off your CT in why this mech is there.

Except it doesn't ever get used because it is too slow to play in this meta and doesn't have the firepower like the Mauler to keep up (which is actually slower). Maybe its YOU who do not understand why it isn't that great anymore (and stalkers in general).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 21 May 2016 - 08:30 AM.

[Roadkill]

Steve Pryde, on 20 May 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

You forgot to max out ct and arms armor.

No, I didn't. The point is not the build, the point is that MASC is available in Smurfy.

[L3mming2]

Gyrok, on 21 May 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

I think you fail to understand precisely what those lists are actually trying to postulate.

list 1 best for a niche (a sertain range) usfull if u drop in a 12 man with a batle plan
list 2 best all around mechs for uncontrolable situations. aka pug que.

[Gyrok]

L3mming2, on 21 May 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

list 1 best for a niche (a sertain range) usfull if u drop in a 12 man with a batle plan
list 2 best all around mechs for uncontrolable situations. aka pug que.

Comp tier list, yes, by range.

The "Meta" tier list is basically what you can expect to put up the most average damage while farming PUGs specifically. If you want something that can trip over itself and put up 500+ damage in average to capable hands...the top of that list will generally get you there.

What people do not realize is that the meta tier list is not an outright ranking of mechs. It is a grouping of mechs into tiers of effectiveness at farming PUGs.

Edited by Gyrok, 21 May 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 21 May 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

Comp tier list, yes, by range.

The "Meta" tier list is basically what you can expect to put up the most average damage while farming PUGs specifically. If you want something that can trip over itself and put up 500+ damage in average to capable hands...the top of that list will generally get you there.

What people do not realize is that the meta tier list is not an outright ranking of mechs. It is a grouping of mechs into tiers of effectiveness at farming PUGs.

[L3mming2]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 May 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

where do you find this **** XD

[L3mming2]

Gyrok, on 21 May 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

Comp tier list, yes, by range.

The "Meta" tier list is basically what you can expect to put up the most average damage while farming PUGs specifically. If you want something that can trip over itself and put up 500+ damage in average to capable hands...the top of that list will generally get you there.

What people do not realize is that the meta tier list is not an outright ranking of mechs. It is a grouping of mechs into tiers of effectiveness at farming PUGs.

so unless its for comp drops in 12 mans with a batle plan, its best to look at the meta tier list. thats why imo that list is way more relevant than the other here on this fora's

[LegendaryArticuno]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 May 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

Wow, your Saying that Ones Mans Option(Meta Mech),
saying a Mech that Hasnt Even Been Out 4 Days is High Teir?
and Thats Proof that IS if Fine and Clan Need to Stop IS QQing?

i vote we Wait a Week(yes i know thats like an Internet Year but Trust me)

Why do you spend so much effort to type so incorrectly?

[Nightshade24]

Sjorpha, on 21 May 2016 - 04:35 AM, said:

This is not true, what Gman does is not simply posting builds he thinks is good.

His initial builds for a new mech may be his personal prediction of the meta, but what he tries to do to the best of his ability is track the metagame and update the tier lists with the currently relevant builds as the meta changes. If a build surfaces as a top winning choice Gman will post it and place it according to it's success, and he will do so even if he personally hates the build.

Sure the more casual lists are a little more about him throwing out favorite builds, but to diminish his work with "1 persons opinion" is to fundamentally misunderstand and disrespect what he is trying to do with his site.

Sure sometimes it's slightly out of date or a prediction is wrong or a mech get placed slightly wrong or whatever, not easy for me to judge since Gman is 10 times both the player and analyst I am.

But one thing is for certain: Metamechs is at least a 100 times better at accurately describing and predicting the relevant MWO metagame than any thread on this forum.

As someone pointed out earlier the general understanding of the metagame on this forum is about 5 months out of date, as evidenced by the fact that so many here still believes laser vomit is dominant.

It's also full of backwards reasoning. For example I've seen the argument that Kodiaks seem stronger because many people are playing it. As is having a horde of baddies in unelited mechs would somehow make the mech seem stronger than it is? How does that work? The truth is that the effect of baddies mishandling the Kodiaks are hiding the mechs power level and makes it seem worse than it is, hence all the nonsense about it being "squishy" and so on.

Yes but after all that it is still his opinion and overall conclusion on what he has studied is what the meta is.
He still has to filter out what is true and what isn't true and compiles a final list. He has to sort through many contradictions between multiple sources/ threads and it's his decision to incorporate one over the other.

If there was another website set for competitive/ meta gameplay of MW: O you will get a completely different list if the person took sources that isn't directly from metamechs (because for you guys writing up for research, wiki's/ wikias, guides, etc. changing one persons words into your own with the same results is not really making something different, you've just reworded it).

[Liveish]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 21 May 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

Except it doesn't ever get used because it is too slow to play in this meta and doesn't have the firepower like the Mauler to keep up (which is actually slower). Maybe its YOU who do not understand why it isn't that great anymore (and stalkers in general).

Are you talking about comp games or pugs. ( the list I was looking at was for comp games)

STK ERLL is not for every map, but the map they are good on would beat a MAL at range, if the STK has skill. ( of course it does depend on how your team is set up and how they are playing off the STK)


If you where talking about Pugs, yes the ELL STK is ****, I would take the following

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d279fe1c29b7da1

Edited by live1991, 22 May 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

STK ERLL is not for every map, but the map they are good on would beat a MAL at range, if the STK has skill. ( of course it does depend on how your team is set up and how they are playing off the STK)

BLR-1G/BLR-2C/BNC-3M > STK-3H for ERLL, its not a matter of whether it can beat the Mauler at range, it is a matter of whether there are better things for high mounted ERLL (which there is), and all of them can be more mobile which means the mid-range push isn't near as dangerous.

[Liveish]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 May 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

BLR-1G/BLR-2C/BNC-3M >

The STK can tank more damage than the rest, Overall the STK is a better Package.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 May 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

all of them can be more mobile which means the mid-range push isn't near as dangerous.

Depends on the group play style, we have never had a problem with a mid range push on a ERLL Map, that would work into our setup.


When it comes down to it, there is no good or bad mech in that list, it comes down to how your team plays the mech, Why its clear it does not suit your team, other teams may use it better for there play style.

High tonnage games, speed is not always the best thing to look for in a mech, if you need to wack a XL in to get that speed you could be hurting yourself.

Edited by live1991, 22 May 2016 - 06:22 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

The STK can tank more damage than the rest

Tanking damage doesn't matter if you can't manuever or have the damage to control an area, just ask the Dire how well it fares against Kodiaks.

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

Depends on the group play style, we have never had a problem with a mid range push on a ERLL Map, that would work into our setup.

ERLL maps are pretty much only Polar and Alpine these days, well that and Canyon can be ERLL depending on the tonnage.

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

When it comes down to it, there is no good or bad mech in that list, it comes down to how your team plays the mech

That may be so, but STK-3H is not the number one extreme range mech either way, and usage in comp matches up with that.

[Liveish]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 May 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Tanking damage doesn't matter if you can't manuever or have the damage to control an area, just ask the Dire how well it fares against Kodiaks.

Yes but the other 7 mechs would kill said mech before he was dead.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 May 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

ERLL maps are pretty much only Polar and Alpine these days, well that and Canyon can be ERLL depending on the tonnage.

I would go Polar is the best map for the STK

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 May 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

That may be so, but STK-3H is not the number one extreme range mech either way, and usage in comp matches up with that.

Yes but they are using a fire line not a poking set up, extreme range fire line set up the STK is not the best. (Also the list does not state its the best mech, just a list of good mechs that suit that range, you need to build a team around your plan)

Edited by live1991, 22 May 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

Yes but the other 7 mechs would kill said mech before he was dead.

Huh, I'm not talking about one lone mech.....the meta right now either involves a strong defensive position with mechs like Mauler or group that can handle rotations like faster end assaults, the Stalker doesn't fit into either because it doesn't have the firepower or sustained DPS to be defensive and is too slow to play the rotation game, even for ERLL strats.

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

I would go Polar is the best map for the STK

And yet the BLR-1G/BLR-2C are used instead because they can get to solid position and being able to rotate if need be due to caps .

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

(Also the list does not state its the best mech, just a list of good mechs that suit that range, you need to build a team around your plan)

They are ordered even within tiers from best to last iirc.

[Liveish]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 May 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

And yet the BLR-1G/BLR-2C are used instead because they can get to solid position and being able to rotate if need be due to caps .

Not all comps have caps, also 6 KM is not that much faster, STK has a higher DPS, and a better poker, at the back of a defence group it can play this role very well.

We changed the mech to the following ( not that its used much any more)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8ca4e2b91287915
Pure LRDF

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4fa4d21677d7029
LRDF with back up

If you don't like meta mechs, start your own site and put in the time to have another website with builds, more is always better.

Maybe Meta Mechs can post up why a mech and which way its to be played(might help the new people), that is the only thing that is missing on the site ( comp List)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

Not all comps have caps, also 6 KM is not that much faster

It's more in the neighborhood of 8-20kph, depending on the exact build for the Battlemaster (5 ERLL can run STD 350 or XL 400), and caps are needed to force engagements, there is a reason skirmish is so disliked by most comp players (it discourages campfests).

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

If you don't like meta mechs, start your own site and put in the time to have another website with builds, more is always better.

Or I could just tell GMan he is wrong like I do every night we have practice.

live1991, on 22 May 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

Maybe Meta Mechs can post up why a mech and which way its to be played(might help the new people), that is the only thing that is missing on the site ( comp List)

Would be nice, but would probably consume too much of GMan's time, especially with the tourney scheduled like it is.

[Liveish]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 May 2016 - 10:05 PM, said:

It's more in the neighborhood of 8-20kph, depending on the exact build for the Battlemaster (5 ERLL can run STD 350 or XL 400), and caps are needed to force engagements, there is a reason skirmish is so disliked by most comp players (it discourages campfests).

Yep but the list does not say Conquest only, no matter what is liked

The STD version is 6.2Kw faster with a lower DPS, XL can be flaky if you are playing with people who can shoot.

Any who way off topic now.

KDK is not OP

[Ted Wayz]

Hard to tell what mech is OP and what is not in 12 v 12 matches filled with pilots of differing ability. Keep in mind Tier has nothing to do with skill so even in Tier 1 you can come across some really bad pilots who just play an awful lot. Tier 2 is full of even worse pilots who want to be Tier 1 but haven't played enough yet (Just take a look at people who have been in Tier 2 awhile and you will know what I mean).

And funny how everyone can take down a Kodiak in a Hunchback or Locust 1 v 1 when talking on the forums. And I am sure we will hear about it the 1 out of 100 times you actually do it. You go.

But to my point, metamechs is an opinion. There is no data or stats to back it up. There is more thought and discussion in this thread about what mech is good at what then probably went into the competitive mech list. So if the Kodiak works for you, great. I'm not an assault guy so no hurry here, but I am also not going to stand in front of it or underestimate what it can do. Focus on what it can't do and you will find yourself watching the rest of the match.

[L3mming2]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 May 2016 - 10:05 PM, said:

It's more in the neighborhood of 8-20kph, depending on the exact build for the Battlemaster (5 ERLL can run STD 350 or XL 400), and caps are needed to force engagements, there is a reason skirmish is so disliked by most comp players (it discourages campfests).


Or I could just tell GMan he is wrong like I do every night we have practice.


Would be nice, but would probably consume too much of GMan's time, especially with the tourney scheduled like it is.

if u see Gman every night at practice can u ask him why he piked this build
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9793cfddb3d3e6c
over this build
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2bfb7a4cbcb5bab

for the 500 to 750m range bracket

it has higher mounts is 10kph faster 1more dhs (at the cost of clan xl (vs std) and no shield torso (but its case anny way so not such a big deal i think?))

ps if u ask tell him i admire his work and effort

Edited by L3mming2, 23 May 2016 - 03:33 AM.