Jump to content

The Case For The Binary Laser Cannon (2016 Edition)

BattleMechs

90 replies to this topic

#1 FLG 01

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Tip of the Spear
  • The Tip of the Spear
  • 2,499 posts

Posted 20 May 2016 - 03:19 PM

Posted Image


This picture features a Marauder firing its Binary Laser Cannons, and thread is an attempt to make a case for the introduction of the Binary Laser Cannon, called Blazer. I think it would be a nice piece of hardware.


1. Data
2. "Historical" Information
3. The Arguments Against It
4. Gameplay Rationale
5. The Mechs
6. Further Reading


Data

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image



Posted Image


READ BEFORE YOU CONTINUE:
  • While mass production only started in the Jihad, limited production was started in 2922; and an Availability Rating of E means it was available if very rare in 3053. More details can be found in the sections "Historical Information" and "The Arguments Against It"
  • The stats in TT and in MWO are not the same; using a model of progression derived from the LL you get...
MWO adjusted stats:
  • Damage: 13.5
  • Heat: 14
  • Weight: 9
  • Crits: 4
  • Burn Duration: 1 (perhaps even shorter... see below)


"Historical" Information

The Binary Laser Cannon, called Blazer, was Mid-Succession War Attempt to overcome the limitations of LosTech and come up with an alternative to both the LL and the PPC. While the Lyran Commonwealth was the first to research the Technology, and to actually produce it later on, the first working specimen was devised in the FWL.
Little more than two LL cores fused together, the Blazer does not match the raw firepower of two LL but also does not spread like two LL would (in TT). The FWL came up with a Marauder variant using two Blazers in the arms, supported by two SRM6 racks. The project however never made it into serial production because with the available SHS the heat was too great, and the project in general was ahead of its time.
The Lyrans actually put it in a limited production on the Zeus 6Y in 2922, but as ComStar belittled the design and excluded it from the famous TRO:3025, it is less well known than other Zeuses. While the ZEU-6Y was seen as a limited success, the recovery of the Helm Memory Core and the newly available technology pushed Defiance into pursuing other paths to upgrade its Mechs.
In fact, the weapon was simply forgotten in midst of a technological renaissance and the Clan Invasion, yet it was fully matured and only waiting to be reused.



The Arguments Against It
  • "It was LosTech" – no, it was not. In fact, Defiance Industries could perfectly well manufacture the Zeus 6Y, a Mech equipped with the Blazer (cf. XTRO:SW, s.v. ZEu-6Y).
  • "It was not used in timeframe" – quite right, if we go by averages. However an Availability Rating of "E" for the Succession Wars Era and Clan Invasion Era means that a few Mechs had them. You would not expect to encounter them, but it was not impossible. The Binary Laser Cannon is a weapon of the current timeframe. If PGI wants to scrape the bottom of the barrel, the Blazer is right there waiting.
  • "It has terrible stats" – Only if you compare the TT of the Blazer stats with the MWO stats of the LL. Lasers in general have been heavily favoured by MWO compared to their TT counterparts. The same favour would be given to the Blazer.


Gameplay Rationale

The TT advantage of bundling almost two LL and concentrating its firepower on precisely one component of the enemy Mech would be lost in MWO, of course. However the capacity to fire 13.5 DMG from one hardpoint is tempting to me. Furthermore the superior use of the Blazer in TT games might be translated into a shorter burn duration. But even without it the DPS is quite nice. Especially hardpoint limited Mechs would benefit from the Blazer.
Lastly, it provides the IS with a genuine piece of IS hardware, without the Clans having a straight upgrade.


The Mechs

Posted Image

Posted Image


There are two: the MAD-4X and the ZEU-6Y.
The Zeus may be a bit hardpoint starved, but then the placement is good. The energy HP sits very high. With some of the usual hardpoint inflation, it would be a very viable Zeus variant. And the coolest looking of them.
The Marauder variant may seem a bit redundand at first, as the MAD-5D can do almost the same. However keep in mind the -5D in canon only had one missile hardpoint. The -4X starts with twice that number, with one missile HP in each ST. It might well become the missile boat of the Marauder series.


Further Reading

Interstellar Operations
http://www.sarna.net...llar_Operations
Tactical Operations
http://www.sarna.net...ical_Operations
Experimental Technical Readout: Succession Wars I
http://www.sarna.net..._Wars,_Volume_1

Edited by FLG 01, 04 June 2016 - 06:55 AM.


#2 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 25,761 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 20 May 2016 - 03:28 PM

PGI missed a great opportunity when they skipped over the Zeus 6Y. :(

#3 Alan Davion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Determined
  • The Determined
  • 2,333 posts

Posted 20 May 2016 - 03:39 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 20 May 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Posted Image


Yeah, you see that "Production" tag there, that's the main reason we probably won't see it in MWO.

Quote

The Mechs

Posted Image

Posted Image


There are two: the MAD-4X and the ZEU-6Y.
The Zeus may be a bit hardpoint starved, but then the placement is good. The energy HP sits very high. With some of the usual hardpoint inflation, it would be a very viable Zeus variant. And the coolest looking of them.
The Marauder variant may seem a bit redundand at first, as the MAD-5D can do almost the same. However keep in mind the -5D in canon only had one missile hardpoint. The -4X starts with twice that number, with one missile HP in each ST. It might well become the missile boat of the Marauder series.


As cool as that Zeus might look, I think you know as well as I do that it wouldn't look like that in MWO. Only the Marauder would look half decent if the weapon was implemented.

#4 Johnny Z

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • 9,942 posts
  • LocationDueling on Solaris

Posted 20 May 2016 - 03:42 PM

Its different from whats already in game so I like it. Things like mines and others equipment not in game would also be nice to see.

More medium lasers? No thanks.

Edited by Johnny Z, 20 May 2016 - 03:42 PM.


#5 cazidin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 4,259 posts

Posted 20 May 2016 - 05:14 PM

We still have to fix LRMs, Machine Guns and ER-PPCs.

#6 Solis Obscuri

    Don't Care How I Want It Now!

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 4,745 posts
  • LocationPomme de Terre

Posted 20 May 2016 - 05:49 PM

dmg 12, heat 16, long range 450m... for 9 tons and 4 crits...

Why would I want a worse version of the LPLas?

#7 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 25,761 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 20 May 2016 - 05:59 PM

View PostSolis Obscuri, on 20 May 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

dmg 12, heat 16, long range 450m... for 9 tons and 4 crits...

Why would I want a worse version of the LPLas?

Are you aware that the LPLas has been buffed from its TT stats?

People keep clinging to 12 damage and 16 heat, but the reality of the matter is that PGI has altered the damage and heat values of almost every laser in the game. The Blazer won't be any different, why wouldn't it be any different?

#8 Deathlike

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 29,240 posts
  • Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad

Posted 20 May 2016 - 06:05 PM

Binary Laser Cannon is Lostech.

PGI is a Lostech creation master.

That's why we can't have decent LBX.

#9 Metus regem

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Sureshot
  • The Sureshot
  • 10,282 posts
  • LocationNAIS College of Military Science OCS courses

Posted 20 May 2016 - 06:06 PM

I support this, only for the MAD-4X, the only Marauder I actually like.

#10 FLG 01

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Tip of the Spear
  • The Tip of the Spear
  • 2,499 posts

Posted 20 May 2016 - 06:09 PM

View PostAlan Davion, on 20 May 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

Yeah, you see that "Production" tag there, that's the main reason we probably won't see it in MWO.


Well, the Prototype tag does not mean there was no production of the weapon, as stated clearly in the book, and again, Availability Rating is "E".
Imho that's good enough, though I can understand reservations.


View Postcazidin, on 20 May 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

We still have to fix LRMs, Machine Guns and ER-PPCs.


... and the LB ACs, Command Consoles etc. There is a lot of stuff that needs balancing.


View PostSolis Obscuri, on 20 May 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

dmg 12, heat 16, long range 450m... for 9 tons and 4 crits...

Why would I want a worse version of the LPLas?


As FupDup mentioned, those are the TT stats. You may not know that PGI has buffed all the lasers in MWO massively compared to their TT counterparts. The LPL for example causes 9 damage for 10 heat using TT rules.

Just like the other lasers have been buffed, the Blazer would come with buffed stats too. Since it is 1.5x the damage of the LL and 2x its heats, the stats would be 13.5 damage and 14 heat.
... as outlined in the opening post, which you may want to read first. It also contains a short section about why it might be useful in game.

Edited by FLG 01, 20 May 2016 - 06:14 PM.


#11 Triordinant

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,493 posts
  • LocationThe Dark Side of the Moon

Posted 20 May 2016 - 07:04 PM

The equation for the Blazer is get a large laser, then double the heat and critical slots, multiply the damage by 1.5 and the weight by 1.8, resulting in the stats they have in BattleTech TT. If you use MWO large laser stats, you get 14 heat, 4 critical slots 13.5 damage, 9 tons and -most importantly- it uses just one energy hardpoint.

#12 BabyCakes666

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Death Star
  • Death Star
  • 1,049 posts

Posted 20 May 2016 - 07:18 PM

yes yes I.S needs a new weapon pgi put this in the game plz

#13 Hit the Deck

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,677 posts
  • LocationIndonesia

Posted 20 May 2016 - 08:10 PM

I see this as an "IS version" of the Clan's Heavy Large Laser when we finally get it (hello Blood Asp!). So, do it!

Edited by Hit the Deck, 20 May 2016 - 08:11 PM.


#14 Targetloc

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 963 posts

Posted 20 May 2016 - 08:16 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 20 May 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Lastly, it provides the IS with a genuine piece of IS hardware, without the Clans having a straight upgrade.


That's a pretty good reason by itself.

#15 TheArisen

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,953 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 20 May 2016 - 11:21 PM

This is one of my most desired weapons that's in the current timeline.

BTW, perfect balance is never going to be achieved so it's not a reason not to add more weapons. Especially when it's a weapon like the Binary laser that's pretty self balancing.

#16 zagibu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,253 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 04:25 AM

It could be useful for mechs with few energy hardpoints like the HGN-733 or the VTR-9B/9S.

#17 Narcissistic Martyr

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 4,242 posts
  • LocationLouisville, KY

Posted 21 May 2016 - 06:14 AM

I can see a case for releasing the BLC (and all new small and medium versions) alongside clan heavy lasers.

Otherwise... I'm not sure PGI can balance them well enough to not be a massive problem.

#18 Tordin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Wolf
  • The Wolf
  • 2,828 posts
  • LocationNordic Union

Posted 21 May 2016 - 06:18 AM

Looks promising. But after MW mercs and mekpaks, I kinda got hooked on the Bombast laser, the purple, murderlaser of doom!

#19 Ryllen Kriel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Marauder
  • The Marauder
  • 753 posts
  • LocationBetween the last bottle and the next.

Posted 21 May 2016 - 06:29 AM

View PostTordin, on 21 May 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

Looks promising. But after MW mercs and mekpaks, I kinda got hooked on the Bombast laser, the purple, murderlaser of doom!


Enter the Bomblazer! Two large laser cores fused together with the limiter removed!

#20 L3mming2

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,304 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 06:49 AM

i think the mane reason that is stopping pgi is that adding a new weapon might be that they have to work on all available chassis to implement it.. dont think the Blaser fits in the current E hardpoints...

i'm all for a few new weapons in mwo do.

there are so manny niches not filed up.

example a light /med wheight balistic thats not dps but more like a 25% damage ac20

a light ballistic thats not a mg (some range..)

a longer range direct fire system for missiles

a light weight (low damage) gauss eqivalent...

a gaint version of a mg (hag's)

ect...

douse anny one know what pgi said on new weapons? and maybe when?

Edited by L3mming2, 21 May 2016 - 06:58 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users