1017 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mystere, on 25 May 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

Isn't that what PvE is for?

No, PVE should be for the immersive story driven, cooperative mission base game mode that isnt full of Epeen stroking, meta ****** who want to do more then camp the same corners and alpha the same few meta mechs, on the same map that favor's their current builds.

PVE now might just be "PVP easy mode" or w/e, but done right, it can actually be alot more. PVP is for those who want to go "my Gauss is bigger then your Gauss". PVE is for the coop team driven people who want a battletech universe full of actual mech combat, objectives and a storyline to follow.

Jack Rueger, on 25 May 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

The problem I have with this logic, is since it was a "Kodiak weekend" he didnt have to beat the best of the best (Maulers, Black Nights, BattleMasters, etc. ) all he had to do was outplay the other Kodiaks, which like most other clan mechs (some after much nerfage) are squishy. I think in a diverse field of all the best mechs with equal players the Kodiak would be strong, but not OP.

Twinky showed his best games but those games could have been against all T3 potatoes, who knows?

In my limited experience it feels like clan mechs are all under powered, so when one that is actually competitive comes along, the potatoes cry.

THose autocannons look like friggin buttons on an old ladies fur coat....

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mystere, on 25 May 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Easily killing and evading them means they're not the Overpowered Devil's Spawn people claim them to be?

I still fear Stalkers more.

In a mech that moves like the Flash, warps around with lag, is about the size of a family sedan against a mech that moves like a house floating down river. Kodiak might be nimble, but I am sure its not going to track a light mech for ****.

I tried to track a ACH in my Warhawk, yeah, goof ***** luck with that. He ran up a hill, over a crest, across a road, down a hill, up another, around in circles, holy ******* god, tracking a light mech is literally impossible.

and dammit forum, merge my posts...

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 25 May 2016 - 07:37 PM.

[AssaultPig]

JackalBeast, on 25 May 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

the same could be said for the 5 or 4 ac5 mauler

it really can't be

even if the DPS is comparable, the kdk-3 has a lot bigger alpha and more burst (double tap.) Mauler needs a lot of facetime to do its damage, the kdk-3 doesn't really (and it the high hardpoints let it peek well.)

I don't really agree with removing the quirks; the problem is one specific fit, not the chassis in general. This kinda of acute problem is exactly what ghost heat was introduced to solve, and would be an easy fix here that wouldn't wreck a lot of other builds.

[JigglyMoobs]

Belacose, on 25 May 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Just as a wild guess I would think that clan players would like the Kodiak 3 to stay as is and IS pilots would want it nerfed?

Isn't the overall consensus that IS regularly beats up on clan mechs? If so then wouldn't the Kodiak 3 help to bring some balance to Faction Play, or would it simply be better to nerf IS mechs?

Most people who are highly skilled think kdk3 needs to be nerfed.

Its game breakingly good in quick play games.

Not clear how it impacts FW. Before kdk 3 most skilled people think IS had a definite advantage. Situation now is unclear.

Situation is also unclear in competition.

However, because of how much it breaks solo queue games, kdk3 needs a nerf.

BTW, there was no one on Twinky's team actively supporting him. In fact, there were some times people on the other side actively gunning for him.

His experience was also not unique. All 10 top players on the kdk 3 board from the event would probably agree with him.

[Corrado]

AssaultPig, on 25 May 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:

it really can't be

even if the DPS is comparable, the kdk-3 has a lot bigger alpha and more burst (double tap.) Mauler needs a lot of facetime to do its damage, the kdk-3 doesn't really (and it the high hardpoints let it peek well.)

I don't really agree with removing the quirks; the problem is one specific fit, not the chassis in general. This kinda of acute problem is exactly what ghost heat was introduced to solve, and would be an easy fix here that wouldn't wreck a lot of other builds.

Yesterday in a 5AC5 Mauler, took down Quad 10s kodiaks at 600m. also 2shotted lights at point blank, 3 of 3 matches with 700-800 damage, 11 total kills, ZERO heat. Ofc the Kodiak pulls off more damage, but that damage is raw, and not as useful as the 25 PPFLD of the 5AC5 mauler or the 20 PPFLD of 4UAC5. those 700-800 damage are mostly at CT and ST.

Took out with 4 shots at a 450m distance moving 3M banshee, all to the ST, XL blown up (the banshee didn't twist).

I'll go with this over and over, mauler and kdk3 are both good mechs. the gameplay is different.

If you want a high precision UAC KDK3, go with 4xCUAC5 and a TC4.
if you want raw power, 4xCUAC10.
if you dont like ghost heat, 2xCUAC10+2xCUAC5

Edited by Corrado, 26 May 2016 - 01:10 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Realistically - i think the KDK-3 could stand to lose some of its quirks, on the basis that the KDK-1 and KDK-5 get them instead..

However, a lot of the reactions are because Clans finally have an assault thats actually worth using. Thats not a bad thing. IS have utterly dominated the assault category since the skill tree nerf made the Dire a very niche mech, with Maulers, Banshees and Battlemasters being streets better than anything the Clans had.. So Knee jerk nerfing the KDK-3 to the point where its equal with the pre-existing Clan assaults is just saying "Clans shouldn't use assault mechs, ever. Stop it. ONLY HEAVIES!!!"

The other clan assaults need buffs. The KDK-3 needs minor toning down - NOT negative quirks.

[Widowmaker1981]

Corrado, on 26 May 2016 - 12:55 AM, said:

If you want a high precision UAC KDK3, go with 4xCUAC5 and a TC4.
if you want raw power, 4xCUAC10.
if you dont like ghost heat, 2xCUAC10+2xCUAC5

I use 2xUAC10+2xUAC5+TC5, personally.

[Sjorpha]

Belacose, on 25 May 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

Is Twinky clan, IS or merc?

Neither, Twinky is a top of the line competitive player.

He plays in the strongest team there currently is and is one of their best players. I'd say his opinion should be counted as one of the least biased and honest you can find about this game.

Edited by Sjorpha, 26 May 2016 - 03:31 AM.

[Murphy7]

Bishop - regarding removing hardpoints - early in beta I recall Hunchback 4SP's having two missile hardpoints in each side torso, This was in the interesting times of the whole Atlas head being the head hitbox, and SRMs I think had some blast radius to them.

It was very silly.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Sjorpha, on 26 May 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

He plays in the strongest team there currently is and is one of their best players. I'd say his opinion should be counted as one of the least biased and honest you can find about this game.

I'd be careful with saying that, even top comp players can be biased, we have several issues with that with even some of our players.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 26 May 2016 - 06:34 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 26 May 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

I'd be careful with saying that, even top comp players can be biased, we have several issues with that with even some of our players.

Wait... skill in a game doesn't automatically put one above bias, agenda, etc?????

You just shattered my worldview. I was looking to the comp scene as paragons of virtue, as the Saint's of MWO, looking out for the little man.......

You can't really be implying that some really are pugstomping ego farmers with good reflexes and zero concern about actual balance, can you?

(Oh wait, that's actually exactly what several of the original units that gave the comp scene in general a bad name were.....)

[Mystere]

LordKnightFandragon, on 25 May 2016 - 07:37 PM, said:

In a mech that moves like the Flash, warps around with lag, is about the size of a family sedan against a mech that moves like a house floating down river. Kodiak might be nimble, but I am sure its not going to track a light mech for ****.

I tried to track a ACH in my Warhawk, yeah, goof ***** luck with that. He ran up a hill, over a crest, across a road, down a hill, up another, around in circles, holy ******* god, tracking a light mech is literally impossible.

and dammit forum, merge my posts...

Except one of my rug-collecting Jenners only goes 95kph. So it's not exactly the Flash.

LordKnightFandragon, on 25 May 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

No, PVE should be for the immersive story driven, cooperative mission base game mode that isnt full of Epeen stroking, meta ****** who want to do more then camp the same corners and alpha the same few meta mechs, on the same map that favor's their current builds.

PVE now might just be "PVP easy mode" or w/e, but done right, it can actually be alot more. PVP is for those who want to go "my Gauss is bigger then your Gauss". PVE is for the coop team driven people who want a battletech universe full of actual mech combat, objectives and a storyline to follow.

It's been my experience that players flock en masse to the PvE side of a multi-player game once the PvP gets a little too tough for them.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 26 May 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

Except one of my rug-collecting Jenners only goes 95kph. So it's not exactly the Flash.



It's been my experience that players flock en masse to the PvE side of a multi-player game once the PvP gets a little too tough for them.

or because campaign mode is fun, usually? (While PvP is usually just TDM?)

[Marmon Rzohr]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

Wait... skill in a game doesn't automatically put one above bias, agenda, etc?????

You just shattered my worldview. I was looking to the comp scene as paragons of virtue, as the Saint's of MWO, looking out for the little man.......

You can't really be implying that some really are pugstomping ego farmers with good reflexes and zero concern about actual balance, can you?

(Oh wait, that's actually exactly what several of the original units that gave the comp scene in general a bad name were.....)

Whatever you think, Twinky is likely right in his assessment. If nothing else, it's probably a safe bet that one of the best assault mech pilots in the game will have correct judgement concerning the performance of a new assault mech.

More to the point the guys at EmP have so far been right regarding a lot of things balance related by predicting what is going to be OP.

If you have reservations because you think the Kodiak will be overnerfed, that should be a different issue to whether the mech is a balance issue or not.

Heck they dont even have to nerf the mech, they can just tweak ghost heat on the C-UAC10s or something. Admittedly, it's a bad idea to nerf weapon systems because of 1 mech, but eventually there might be another mech that can boat the same combo and it might be just as problematic.

As far as my personal opinion goes:
I think the KDK-3 is OP. Several factors are united in one mech to make it extremely good. Hitboxes, number of ballistic hardpoints and hardpoint locations. Compared to any other assault mech, IS or Clan, it is the hardest to fight by a noticeable margin. From the side it's impossible to kill like an Atlas, from the front it has a very small profile when fighting over ridges (only the Stalker is better, but the stalker doesn't have nearly the same amount of firepower) and decent hitboxes overall. It has great firepower with a good alpha and exceptional DPS.

It doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground or something, but it is a balance concern.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 26 May 2016 - 07:51 AM.

[cazidin]

I wonder. Will PGI nerf the KDK-2 and 4 also?

[Bishop Steiner]

Marmon Rzohr, on 26 May 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

Whatever you think, Twinky is likely right in his assessment. If nothing else, it's probably a safe bet that one of the best assault mech pilots in the game will have correct judgement concerning the performance of a new assault mech.

More to the point the guys at EmP have so far been right regarding a lot of things balance related by predicting what is going to be OP.

If you have reservations because you think the Kodiak will be overnerfed, that should be a different issue to whether the mech is a balance issue or not.

Heck they dont even have to nerf the mech, they can just tweak ghost heat on the C-UAC10s or something. Admittedly, it's a bad idea to nerf weapon systems because of 1 mech, but eventually there might be another mech that can boat the same combo and it might be just as problematic.

As far as my personal opinion goes:
I think the KDK-3 is OP. Several factors are united in one mech to make it extremely good. Hitboxes, number of ballistic hardpoints and hardpoint locations. Compared to any other assault mech, IS or Clan, it is the hardest to fight by a noticeable margin. From the side it's impossible to kill like an Atlas, from the front it has a very small profile when fighting over ridges (only the Stalker is better, but the stalker doesn't have nearly the same amount of firepower) and decent hitboxes overall. It has great firepower with a good alpha and exceptional DPS.

It doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground or something, but it is a balance concern.

didn't see me say Twinky or EMP anywhere... just a comment that I agree with Quicksilver that being Comp, even a Top Comp does not put one above bias or agenda.

cazidin, on 26 May 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

I wonder. Will PGI nerf the KDK-2 and 4 also?

Probably.

My question would be WHY?

The 3 is arguably lightly OP. Only have seen 2 people posting about insano results, and a ton of people who are scratching their head over the ruckus?

But the 2&4, what in the name of all that's holy is supposed ot be OP about them? (the 2, IMO outside from a very small niche, is hot garbage of the KDK, which is still not actually horrible, just a lot of existing chassis do anything it can do as well or better). And the 4 is my Pet Bear, so I would be really upset if it got nerfed without COPIOUS video evidence to a problem.

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

or because campaign mode is fun, usually? (While PvP is usually just TDM?)

I was actually thinking of Age of Conan's open-world PvP when I wrote that. A lot of players loudly rejoiced when their demand for a "Blood and Gore" server was obliged to by Funcom, only to abandon it in droves for the safety of the PVE-only servers when the real PvP folks ripped through them.

Edited by Mystere, 26 May 2016 - 08:02 AM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

didn't see me say Twinky or EMP anywhere... just a comment that I agree with Quicksilver that being Comp, even a Top Comp does not put one above bias or agenda.

Sorry if I misunderstood you. It was a line of comments from a post discussing whether he has bias toward IS or Clan.

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

Probably.

You never know. Look at how the Black Knight was nerfed recently xD

[Hit the Deck]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

My question would be WHY?

My question would be why the Kodiaks got buffed before being released, especially the "3" since it has a number of good qualities for boating 4B. What if we remove their buffs and see how they perform?

Let's pick the "3" as an example. If it's still Tier 1 after being stripped of all of its buffs, then I think you'd agree that this state is better, no?

[Roadkill]

MischiefSC, on 25 May 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

So by that logic if I play a wubshee right now or a Mauler I should be getting 1k fames2? Because people are playing other assaults and not getting over 1k games as consistently.

I did better in my other assaults than I did in my Kodiaks. I do better in my Warhammer Black Widow than I do in my KDK-3.

But, being the logical type, I wrote it off to the fact that my Kodiaks weren't fully unlocked yet. I guess that's the problem, eh? The OMGOPPLZNERF!!! crowd isn't logical.