1017 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 15 July 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

Correct, KDK-3 is still going to be supreme, its just dakka that may have issues.

Exactly. All that's changed is the skill level required to get exceptional performance out of it. Without the mobility quirks (especially accel/decel) it won't be quite as superior at trades. Gauss+ppc hump, shoot, fade was just *stupid* in pug queue. Dat 50pt ppfld. Well, 50, 30, 50, 30 if you wanted to keep your heat way low.

That's not even including the erppc spread damage 10 pt bonus.

Also dem 2x5, 2x10s. What me heat? You heat!

The structure buffs being removed will make me more cautious and now that I won't be able to out-maneuver most heavies and just about any assault I can't just Rambo in, kill 3 or 5 mechs, then fade to the back and poke with the 2 remaining guns after I lose a ST so it'll play...

Like any other top performing mech. Oh the humanity.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

Exactly. All that's changed is the skill level required to get exceptional performance out of it. Without the mobility quirks (especially accel/decel) it won't be quite as superior at trades. Gauss+ppc hump, shoot, fade was just *stupid* in pug queue. Dat 50pt ppfld. Well, 50, 30, 50, 30 if you wanted to keep your heat way low.

That's not even including the erppc spread damage 10 pt bonus.

Also dem 2x5, 2x10s. What me heat? You heat!

The structure buffs being removed will make me more cautious and now that I won't be able to out-maneuver most heavies and just about any assault I can't just Rambo in, kill 3 or 5 mechs, then fade to the back and poke with the 2 remaining guns after I lose a ST so it'll play...

Like any other top performing mech. Oh the humanity.

honestly could care less about the 3.

but please do explain to me why absolutely any of the other kodiaks needed a nerf?

[Bishop Steiner]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 15 July 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

honestly could care less about the 3.

but please do explain to me why absolutely any of the other kodiaks needed a nerf?

He Can't. Look thru the past 50 pages of him getting wrecked whenever he tried, and even admitting they weren't OP... but that hey felt they should be nerfed "because".

Same reason he keeps ignoring the topic now.

[MischiefSC]

I'll still play a kdk3 against the assault of your choice, post nerf. As was stated above by our resident "still posts in the brown sea and not just to reddit" comp player it's still the best assault.

Didn't get the 4. Can't speak to it. The kdk1 and 2 are both mediocre but still better than most my other assaults.

Don't have the SB but it's still going to carry a Dire Wolf loadout but faster and higher mounts.

Having an open mech that's flat out better than the competition and makes you feel like a BA is always nice, but it's bad balance.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Why did the others need a nerf?

They had the word Kodiak in their name. Purely guilt-by-association.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

more curious if you guys were wrecking so much face with the Spirit Bear, 2 and 4 that you felt they needed nuked, also?

2 and 4 are probably about equal with the Mauler if not worse, the Spirit Bear is still solid though, the extra CT helps potentially more than any side torso buffs.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 15 July 2016 - 07:21 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

I'll still play a kdk3 against the assault of your choice, post nerf. As was stated above by our resident "still posts in the brown sea and not just to reddit" comp player it's still the best assault.

Didn't get the 4. Can't speak to it. The kdk1 and 2 are both mediocre but still better than most my other assaults.

Don't have the SB but it's still going to carry a Dire Wolf loadout but faster and higher mounts.

Having an open mech that's flat out better than the competition and makes you feel like a BA is always nice, but it's bad balance.

Except of course, since my primary ride was the KDK4 which is on par with the 1 and 2, at best... I was using an "Uber mech" to feel BA, how?

Oh. I wasn't. It was just collateral damage to a hissy fit.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 15 July 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

2 and 4 are probably about equal with the Mauler if not worse, the Spirit Bear is still solid though, the extra CT helps potentially more than any side torso buffs.

Hows Mauler doing in Comp post nerf, anyhow? (if ya'll have had time to even mess with in between tourney stuff)

I honestly have not played enough since th elast patch to have a feel for what is the "new meta".....

but even this weekend playing mediums in the event...wasn't exactly finding KDK3s altering the course of matches the way Poptart HGNs and VTRs used to, or PPC Stalkers or UAC Ilyas.

At least in Solo Tier... KDK3 mighta been king, but it's a much less impressive kingship than his Meta Forebears held.

[Mcgral18]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 15 July 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

honestly could care less about the 3.

but please do explain to me why absolutely any of the other kodiaks needed a nerf?

That's a purely PGI issue


Same way the LOLcust went from 50% duration (on a single laser) to 0%



PGI's gonna PGI

[Col Jaime Wolf]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

I'll still play a kdk3 against the assault of your choice, post nerf. As was stated above by our resident "still posts in the brown sea and not just to reddit" comp player it's still the best assault.

Didn't get the 4. Can't speak to it. The kdk1 and 2 are both mediocre but still better than most my other assaults.

Don't have the SB but it's still going to carry a Dire Wolf loadout but faster and higher mounts.

Having an open mech that's flat out better than the competition and makes you feel like a BA is always nice, but it's bad balance.

kodiak 1 might be a good mech if you had the physical space to stack doubles to the moon

kodiak 2 is a highlander IIC with 10 more tons, 1 more JJ, a higher engine cap` and very very crappy hard points, i still haven't found any build that's good on it that doesn't ditch endo, ferro and all JJ's to just load up on big energy weapons and tons of heat sinks.

SB was almost as good as an atlas 7, but between the two i would have placed my bets on the atlas because of sheer tanking ability. even at 90KPH a Kodiak is a massive target and the big engine and masc just meant you could use use your arms for tanking a bit better, forget that i have 3 tons of ammo in each arm because you literally have no were else to stick it.

and once again IS holds 4/4 best mechs in weight class.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 15 July 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

That's a purely PGI issue


Same way the LOLcust went from 50% duration (on a single laser) to 0%



PGI's gonna PGI

But that extra 10% MG RoF for the 3V!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

Hows Mauler doing in Comp post nerf, anyhow? (if ya'll have had time to even mess with in between tourney stuff)

Haven't had time to mess with it outside tourney, but I can't imagine the Mauler would be that great considering how push oriented the meta was before the Kodiak, the speed it has makes up for its other problems after playing with and against it.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

but even this weekend playing mediums in the event...wasn't exactly finding KDK3s altering the course of matches the way Poptart HGNs and VTRs used to, or PPC Stalkers or UAC Ilyas.

At least in Solo Tier... KDK3 mighta been king, but it's a much less impressive kingship than his Meta Forebears held.

Well, problem is there is a lot of spuds that hear how good it is and take it only to be very underwhelming, and it also dies really fast without appropriate support, like the Whale before it.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 15 July 2016 - 07:34 PM.

[MischiefSC]

As I said repeatedly - not in favor of nerfing under performers. Like the nerf half the under performing mechs got the last round.

The KDK is an excellent mech. That it's not vastly superior to every other assault isn't saying it's bad. I'll take any KDK vs just about any assault. The worst KDKs are not better than the best other assaults but they are generally better than the worst chassis of other assaults.

So the best KDKs are as good (if not better) than the best other assaults and the worst kdks are as good or better than the worst non-kdks.

I don't get the issue.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 15 July 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

Haven't had time to mess with it outside tourney, but I can't imagine the Mauler would be that great considering how push oriented the meta was before the Kodiak, the speed it has makes up for its other problems after playing with and against it.


Well, problem is there is a lot of spuds that hear how good it is and take it only to be very underwhelming, and it also dies really fast without appropriate support, like the Whale before it.

Don't deny that. But Spuds were out in force during the previous Metas too. Just felt like the previous Meta-King iterations were more match altering, even if individually maybe not as impressive as the KDK3 has the potential to be.

Maybe that's the difference, IDK... it's uber potent, but there isn't the same synergy across chassis the way some previous Metas seemed to shake out? Because I do find even against good pilots, they are usually easier to counter overall, compared to walls of HGNs, VTRs and CTFs and SHDs pasting the PPFLD in your face, etc-.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

I don't get the issue.

It's always our balance overlord.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

I don't get the issue.

Neither does Paul. What grand company you keep these days.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 15 July 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

Haven't had time to mess with it outside tourney, but I can't imagine the Mauler would be that great considering how push oriented the meta was before the Kodiak, the speed it has makes up for its other problems after playing with and against it.

Mauler is non-existent in our normal-client games. Its best feature was very long range dakka, and with the velocity nerf combining with the KDK being able to mount 2xcERPPC+2xcGauss at 70 kph, it's simply out-classed in any sort of power position or trade. Its heat efficiency isn't even a boon on the push anymore, the 80 points that a 4xcUAC/10 spits out just kills it.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Don't deny that. But Spuds were out in force during the previous Metas too. Just felt like the previous Meta-King iterations were more match altering, even if individually maybe not as impressive as the KDK3 has the potential to be.

Maybe that's the difference, IDK... it's uber potent, but there isn't the same synergy across chassis the way some previous Metas seemed to shake out? Because I do find even against good pilots, they are usually easier to counter overall, compared to walls of HGNs, VTRs and CTFs and SHDs pasting the PPFLD in your face, etc-.

The quad cUAC/10 build is easier to counter because the damage does spread and there's not much the user can do about it. If you can find the good player and direct your team to focus him down instead of falling for the trap where they try to burn through his "pug armor" while he tears them up. You can even poke them to death 1 v 1 with a Locust.

The 2xPPC+2xGoose one is harder. It does so much damage in one shot that even if you isolate it in a 1v1 in anything less than another 100 tonner within its own power zone, you will very likely die. It has more effective range, making it harder to evade. It moves quickly, making it harder to avoid. It out-trades everything. It has zero inherent damage spread.

This is the real problem build.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Mauler is non-existent in our normal-client games. Its best feature was very long range dakka, and with the velocity nerf combining with the KDK being able to mount 2xcERPPC+2xcGauss at 70 kph, it's simply out-classed in any sort of power position or trade. Its heat efficiency isn't even a boon on the push anymore, the 80 points that a 4xcUAC/10 spits out just kills it.



The quad cUAC/10 build is easier to counter because the damage does spread and there's not much the user can do about it. If you can find the good player and direct your team to focus him down instead of falling for the trap where they try to burn through his "pug armor" while he tears them up. You can even poke them to death 1 v 1 with a Locust.

The 2xPPC+2xGoose one is harder. It does so much damage in one shot that even if you isolate it in a 1v1 in anything less than another 100 tonner within its own power zone, you will very likely die. It has more effective range, making it harder to evade. It moves quickly, making it harder to avoid. It out-trades everything. It has zero inherent damage spread.

This is the real problem build.

makes sense, as does it comparative rarity in QP since it's also a "skill" build... too many bads can't hit with PPCs past 450 meters or so, and still too many can't overcome Goose Charge. Make sense it would be a dominant higher tier build though.

Question is how much will the nerfs impact what it does?

[MischiefSC]

So the twisting is nice and all. It's not pure CT anymore.

For me it's the accel/decel. It humps faster than most heavies, getting out of cover and back into it in a hurry.

Twist is how quickly you can shield but accel/decel is time you spend out of cover and exposed. Currently I can hump out, puke gauss/ppc to the face, hump back into cover and I'm exposed for less than a full CLPL burn.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

makes sense, as does it comparative rarity in QP since it's also a "skill" build... too many bads can't hit with PPCs past 450 meters or so, and still too many can't overcome Goose Charge. Make sense it would be a dominant higher tier build though.

Question is how much will the nerfs impact what it does?

Honestly? Not much. There really isn't anything they can do to it directly without either altering equipment or going to negative quirks, because the existing quirks were nice but ultimately of marginal use. None of the other Assaults received any buffs to make them compete in some niche. It'll be a little more susceptible to Light ambush, but a properly practiced team won't let that happen (or they will and call it a measured sacrifice). It won't be able to spread damage as well, but then again you can already negate that by aiming for its head.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

Honestly? Not much. There really isn't anything they can do to it directly without either altering equipment or going to negative quirks, because the existing quirks were nice but ultimately of marginal use. None of the other Assaults received any buffs to make them compete in some niche. It'll be a little more susceptible to Light ambush, but a properly practiced team won't let that happen (or they will and call it a measured sacrifice). It won't be able to spread damage as well, but then again you can already negate that by aiming for its head.

Which I believe...is what I was concerned about in the first place.

Which means the QQ will continue, and the next round of poorly planned blanket nerfs will come.

Bravo, PGI.