1017 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

1453 R, on 18 July 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

So it's perfectly fine for Piranha to go about and bumfuggle wrecktopus the only Clan assault chassis above 'C' tier, because the 1 and 5 - both of which are still pointless, by the way; 15 CT structure is barely even a ripple - get buff, and the savage hammerblows to the Spirit Bear and the 2 and 4 are just handwaved because "Oh, PGI gotta PGI"?

As I recall, whenever 'PGI gotta PGI' before, a lot of folks tended to go full banana bonkers on them for it. If the Bauller or the Manshee had been hit this hard, people would've been screeching like demons for weeks. But because one - ONE!! - KDK was overdone, hammering the entire chassis into mediocrity is barely even mildly sad?

Right. I'll just remember 'PGI gotta PGI' while my Spirit Bear joins my Dragon Slayer in mothballs. I'm sure that'll make eeeeeeverything better.

Welcome to the light mech class. Oxide was over the top. What happened? The whole class was "normalized"

[Murphy7]

Quote

and once again IS holds 4/4 best mechs in weight class.

Not even remotely sure how you figure that:

Arctic Cheetah is top of the class for light mechs.

Stormcrow is likely still top of the class in mediums, though it's competition got closer from the Hunchback IIc, Nova, and might lose the belt to the Huntsman whenever that arrives?

Heavies it gets muddier - Timberwolves, Ebon Jaguars, and Hellbingers are all quite strong, but so too are Warhammers and Thunderbolts.

Assaults - if Kodiaks do not remain the very best Assaults, I'm not clear on what the successor mechs are. A lot of the usual suspects seem to have taken hits as well - Battlemasters, Maulers come to mind immediately. Atlases are tough but very easily disarmed through side torso losses.


By my estimation, Clans hold 3 of the 4 classes outright, with the most discussion around the Heavy class.

[Murphy7]

Quote

Well cried Fanboys,well done.
You Guys have all the advantages on the IS Side and all you do,is cry all day long.
The biggest Fanboy make this decision and it has nothing to do with facts or an OP KDK 3.
He still want to buff one side,his side...

Of course, this has never, ever gone the other way.

Thunderbolts, Black Knights, Grasshoppers, Dragons, Quickdraws, Blackjacks, Warhammers, Marauders, Maulers, Battlemasters, Jenners, Firestarters, Stalkers, ...



Sorry, PGI is equal opportunity "balance piñata".

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

The 2xPPC+2xGoose one is harder. It does so much damage in one shot that even if you isolate it in a 1v1 in anything less than another 100 tonner within its own power zone, you will very likely die. It has more effective range, making it harder to evade. It moves quickly, making it harder to avoid. It out-trades everything. It has zero inherent damage spread.

This is the real problem build.

Just don't punish the ERPPC-Gauss Timber as a side effect.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Is PGI still living in the artificial reality where a KDK with 11E is objectively superior to all of its counterparts?

The PGI balance guru was slotted into T4 when they based things on actual stats rather than playtime.

If you realize balance comes from the POV of a T4 player, it all makes a sick kind of sense.

[Hawok79]

Murphy7, on 18 July 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Of course, this has never, ever gone the other way.

Thunderbolts, Black Knights, Grasshoppers, Dragons, Quickdraws, Blackjacks, Warhammers, Marauders, Maulers, Battlemasters, Jenners, Firestarters, Stalkers, ...



Sorry, PGI is equal opportunity "balance piñata".

They are still better than their Clan Counterparts

Construction->Twistability(nose) ,Struktur und Weapon Quirks,Pinpoint Damage and Laser Duration in combination with this f... Netcode etc

Brain Cancer, on 18 July 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

The PGI balance guru was slotted into T4 when they based things on actual stats rather than playtime.

If you realize balance comes from the POV of a T4 player, it all makes a sick kind of sense.

+1

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Murphy7, on 18 July 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

Not even remotely sure how you figure that:

Arctic Cheetah is top of the class for light mechs.

Stormcrow is likely still top of the class in mediums, though it's competition got closer from the Hunchback IIc, Nova, and might lose the belt to the Huntsman whenever that arrives?

Heavies it gets muddier - Timberwolves, Ebon Jaguars, and Hellbingers are all quite strong, but so too are Warhammers and Thunderbolts.

Assaults - if Kodiaks do not remain the very best Assaults, I'm not clear on what the successor mechs are. A lot of the usual suspects seem to have taken hits as well - Battlemasters, Maulers come to mind immediately. Atlases are tough but very easily disarmed through side torso losses.


By my estimation, Clans hold 3 of the 4 classes outright, with the most discussion around the Heavy class.

extreme range - Battlemaster 2C
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...af32ed316eda14c

long range - Grasshopper 5P
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d4b455be3833b68

medium range - Battlemaster 2C
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...87c56e5d7a5dd76

short range - Griffin 3M
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f97549881d33128

lights - Jenner Oxide
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...50300f2eb6f7a8b

those are the very best mechs for those roles, IS across the board, the Kodiak was a contender for long and medium range but after the 19th im am certain they will fall behind the mechs listed. please note the almost 5/1 ratio the IS has in some categories over clans in terms of options for mechs.

http://metamechs.com...ists/comp-list/

Mind you (if it matters to you at all) Gman is a Lords competitive player, considered one of the very best (if not the best) competitive unit in this game.

this kind of thing is very much a calculated decision IE (speed+agility+tankyness+firepower+hardpoints+quirks)/ton of mech=amount of whoop ***

Only the Kodiak 3 was out of line with the others, there was no reason at all to nerf any other Kodiak.

thank you for correcting me(4/4), once again IS holds 5/5 of the best mechs in class with far far more options in the tier 1 category vs the clans. again you can call this balance if you want but apparently clans aren't allowed to have nice things or even have a single best mech in class.

so again i hope all you whiners are happy you got the ONLY clan assault mech even worth considering nerfed.

Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 18 July 2016 - 11:43 AM.

[Darth Hotz]

I bought the Kodiak pack to check for myself how strong they are. Best game so far +1600 dmg and regularly +1000dmg games. And this while they were not even leveled.

The argument that IS has strong mechs (just like the clanners btw.) and that "whiners" just dont want the clanners to grant anything nice is just a bad argument. The KDK 3 (and this is exclusively what I am referring to) is outperforming any other damage dealer by FAR. Very FAR.

If it would just be good or great it would be ok to let it go. But the combination of speed, agility, high weapon mounts and 4 ballistic slots makes it the ultimate destruction machine with completly outstanding damage dealing capacities.

So this is not about nerfing clans, this is about nerfing a mech the term"overpowered" is more than justified. It has to be brought down to the level of "great" instead to keep it on the level of "godlike".

If you people dont get this, I question your interest in competitive gameplay. Because competitive does not mean to stomp anything with absolutetly superior material. Competitive means to meet with nearly equal material and let skill decide the outcome. If you dont want this, then you are just here to stroke your epen and have no right to call anyone a "whiner".

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Darth Hotz, on 18 July 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

I bought the Kodiak pack to check for myself how strong they are. Best game so far +1600 dmg and regularly +1000dmg games. And this while they were not even leveled.

The argument that IS has strong mechs (just like the clanners btw.) and that "whiners" just dont want the clanners to grant anything nice is just a bad argument. The KDK 3 (and this is exclusively what I am referring to) is outperforming any other damage dealer by FAR. Very FAR.

If it would just be good or great it would be ok to let it go. But the combination of speed, agility, high weapon mounts and 4 ballistic slots makes it the ultimate destruction machine with completly outstanding damage dealing capacities.

So this is not about nerfing clans, this is about nerfing a mech the term"overpowered" is more than justified. It has to be brought down to the level of "great" instead to keep it on the level of "godlike".

If you people dont get this, I question your interest in competitive gameplay. Because competitive does not mean to stomp anything with absolutetly superior material. Competitive means to meet with nearly equal material and let skill decide the outcome. If you dont want this, then you are just here to stroke your epen and have no right to call anyone a "whiner".

no one has said that the Kodiak 3 isn't a very good mech, atm probably the best assault definitely the best clan assault.

which mind you, you should ask yourself, why does it take the perfect storm of 4 ballistic hardpoints, mounted extremely high, on a mech that can configure endo/ff/dhs and engine size to make 1 good clan assault mech?

is that not indicative a larger problem?

what we are saying is WHY did every other kodiak get nerfed? (and warned you about btw)

exactly why did the Kodiak 2 need a nerf? it has a grand total of 8 hard points on a 100 tonner, 6 energy, 1 ballistic and 1 missile. exactly what is OP about that?

did Spirit Bear need a nerf?

was the Kodiak 4 really so OP it needed a nerf?

THIS is why we are angry with the whiners, most of us could care less that the 3 got a nerf but it angers us when every variant of a mech is reduced to the sum of its best variant. so keep trying to act like your on the high horse but in the end the clans lost their ONLY viable assault period, while IS continues to enjoy at least half a dozen excellent assaults.

[Darth Hotz]

You mix up two things.

First: The KDK 3 is completely op and needs to get nerfed. This is what many players (clanners and mercs too btw.) asked for.

Second: PGI's lack of competence in game balancing and making comprehensible decisions on it.

The people that asked for a nerf on the KDK 3 can not be blamed that PGI decided to nerf the other Kodiaks too. I agree there was no need for it, because they are good but not godlike.

On the other hand you cant not expect people that are interested in a balanced game to NOT ask for a nerf on the KDK 3, just because there is the possibility that PGI makes uncomprehensible decisions.

And btw. the recent patch and the one before basically nerfed all popular chassis of the IS way more than the clanners.

[Hawok79]

Is this a Joke.You call this game Competitive!?

Its far away form: to be near there!

Damage is not Killing.

With Dual Ac 10/20 or 4 Uac5 In Kgc or Mal I can twist and shoot in one motion and get my damage on what i hit,at thier specific ranges.
My aim time is shorter and this is an major advantage!Less Face time,less damage!

With cuac´s that is not posible,and its very hard to hit a moving Mech at 2-300m on one componet.

A skilled player will always try to aim and kill and not to make 1600 dmg.

and btw this baby is more powerfull than a 4 cuac Kdk3

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bdc9a65b6e19e28

You want "nearly equal material"?! We are still not even close

[1453 R]

Darth Hotz, on 18 July 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

You mix up two things.

First: The KDK 3 is completely op and needs to get nerfed. This is what many players (clanners and mercs too btw.) asked for.

Second: PGI's lack of competence in game balancing and making comprehensible decisions on it.

The people that asked for a nerf on the KDK 3 can not be blamed that PGI decided to nerf the other Kodiaks too. I agree there was no need for it, because they are good but not godlike.

On the other hand you cant not expect people that are interested in a balanced game to NOT ask for a nerf on the KDK 3, just because there is the possibility that PGI makes uncomprehensible decisions.

And btw. the recent patch and the one before basically nerfed all popular chassis of the IS way more than the clanners.

So...again, the message is "Sucks to be you guys, but it's completely, totally fine that Piranha savaged the entire chassis because the KDK-3 was a Bad Touch King and made people uncomfortable"?

The KDK-2, 4, and SB needed to die because the KDK-3 was giving comps fits? Or rather, to put it correctly according to that post: "Nah, they didn't need to die, but it's no big deal that they did die because it means the KDK-3 is one big important step closer to never seeing the light of gameplay again, the way God intended."

That seems...yeah. Ye know, I'm not even going to come up with some colorful analogy. The execrable statement pretty much speaks for itself.

[Darth Hotz]

I own all maulers and know what they are capable of and what not. Compared to the KDK 3 the are like stationary firebases and get outspeeded and out manouvered by any Kodiak. And if you cant aim right with the 4UAC 10, well...you need to work on it.

As I wrote, in no mech ever I scored 1600dmg and had that many 1000dmg games like in the (unleveled) KDK 3. I also got 3 ace of spades in them so far. So much for "damage is not killing".

[badaa]

didnt pgi say the kdk3 wasnt calculating the right heat generation for acs and thats what there changing and any way there coming out for c-bills soon of course there getting nerfed happens
to every mech

[Darth Hotz]

1453 R, on 18 July 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

So...again, the message is "Sucks to be you guys, but it's completely, totally fine that Piranha savaged the entire chassis because the KDK-3 was a Bad Touch King and made people uncomfortable"?

The KDK-2, 4, and SB needed to die because the KDK-3 was giving comps fits? Or rather, to put it correctly according to that post: "Nah, they didn't need to die, but it's no big deal that they did die because it means the KDK-3 is one big important step closer to never seeing the light of gameplay again, the way God intended."

That seems...yeah. Ye know, I'm not even going to come up with some colorful analogy. The execrable statement pretty much speaks for itself.

OMG, this crap talk. Why are the other Kodiaks dead? They loose agility and gain armour. So how are they dead?

Really, some of you people where just so spoiled by the times of clan easy mode that you forgot how to deal with non easy mode mechs and tend to panic for nothing. Take the current patch and the one before and tell me which side got nerfed more.

Whenever PGI will give the IS an completely overpowered mech and clanners ask to nerf it, shall the answer be "Cant do this, because they might also nerf the other chassis too. So the OP mech has stay for good"?

[Hawok79]

Reading is king!
Outspeeded...a fireing Mauler!?for sure.
This make no sence...Back to my first Post-> Is Fanboy.

[Aerei]

Clans got the Kodiak nerfed, but it will still be playable.

IS on the other hand....Blackjack, at least the 1X and 3, are going to be a joke. Marauder didn't need nerfs at all--who asked for them? Warhammer got hit. Quickdraw is getting more nerfs. Catapult. Locust...

[Baulven]

Murphy7, on 18 July 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

Not even remotely sure how you figure that:

Arctic Cheetah is top of the class for light mechs.

Stormcrow is likely still top of the class in mediums, though it's competition got closer from the Hunchback IIc, Nova, and might lose the belt to the Huntsman whenever that arrives?

Heavies it gets muddier - Timberwolves, Ebon Jaguars, and Hellbingers are all quite strong, but so too are Warhammers and Thunderbolts.

Assaults - if Kodiaks do not remain the very best Assaults, I'm not clear on what the successor mechs are. A lot of the usual suspects seem to have taken hits as well - Battlemasters, Maulers come to mind immediately. Atlases are tough but very easily disarmed through side torso losses.


By my estimation, Clans hold 3 of the 4 classes outright, with the most discussion around the Heavy class.

Look at the laderboards for mediums. The streakcrow that touches you in bad places doesn't come close to IS mediums. ACH is about to get hit hard on every chassis on accel decel since you MUST lose hard points at a minimum (or ECM if you are suicidal) in order to get those back. It's also losing some structure. The kdk is about to be hit (the uac10 ghost heat will do a lot more to the it touched me in a bad place then the agility) and is about to go from ok to kill to whelp it's dead already. And everything except for the kdk3 is getting hit hard because clans can't have a functional assualt for FW. Good stuff.

Edited by Baulven, 18 July 2016 - 02:44 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Baulven, on 18 July 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

Look at the laderboards for mediums. The streakcrow that touches you in bad places doesn't come close to IS mediums. ACH is about to get hit hard on every chassis on accel decel since you MUST lose hard points at a minimum (or ECM if you are suicidal) in order to get those back. It's also losing some structure. The kdk is about to be hit (the uac10 ghost heat will do a lot more to the it touched me in a bad place then the agility) and is about to go from ok to kill to whelp it's dead already. And everything except for the kdk3 is getting hit hard because clans can't have a functional assualt for FW. Good stuff.

the HBK-IIC and Nova are heads and shoulders above every IS Medium Chassis on those boards, too.

Stormcrow is no longer "the Mech", though it's still a very versatile and dangerous chassis. And currently, it's actualyl sitting slightly above the HBK and and WVR. which are the top IS perfromers.

So the top 5 Medium Performers, in order, are:
1) Nova (4054)
2) HBK-IIC (4034)
3) Stormcrow (3836)
4) Wolverine (3831)
5) Hunchback (3758)

So... yeah.

[JigglyMoobs]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 July 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Just don't punish the ERPPC-Gauss Timber as a side effect.

I -almost- want to see that happen just to see JagerXII 's reaction.