83 replies to this topic

[Voq]

With sarcastic respect, Wintersdark, you speak for your own posts, from what I can see. In truth not nearly as many as you're claiming have a balanced view on the matter.
I'm especially amused at the Cpt Obvious remark, as reading through this thread has lead me to believe that knowing sniping can be highly valuable is far from obvious to many.

[S13gtastic]

627, on 27 May 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

solo sniping only works until the two enemy lights come to the conclusion they need a snack and go after you. Than it's GG and you did like 200 damage and had no meaningful input on the match.

Buddy and I where playing in are Jenners when we found a ERlarge Cheetah and Raven on Polar Highlands off on the outskirts trying to snipe for their team. It didn't end well for them then we just back stabbed are way though a Kodiak and Timber Wolf.

Had to throw my hat in and use this example from yesterday. I firmly maintain the belief if you aren't at the front or actively trying to flank and cause mischief in a light mech you are a handicap for your team.

[Gas Guzzler]

meteorol, on 26 May 2016 - 11:31 PM, said:

I like how people always mention "in Tier 1", like there is any difference from tier 2 or 3.

Having played on a Tier 3 alt account I can say that the experience is definitely different during prime time.

[Spleenslitta]

I shoot and scoot a lot. Or i used to before i more or less quit MWO (waiting for an update significant enough to bring me back).
I stay within optimal range most of the time as well as aiming for the torso as much as possible.
I also bring a brace of short/medium ranged weapons instead of getting a second ER PPC so i can take advantage of opportunities to hit even harder or defend myself better.

Anyhow....there is one thing i don't quite understand. A lot of players say i have to take my share of the damage. Why?
Isn't it good enough if i make the enemy turn towards me before i scoot away or just allout miss me?
Why must i stand there and trade damage when i can avoid it in my Kit Fox that has such limited armor? I just don't get it.

If i get through a match mostly undamaged while pulling my weight i think i did something right rather than wrong. If i'm on a team on the verge of losing then why aren't they gratefull when i got the armor necessary to drag home a victory?

[Alistair Winter]

I am.

As others have said, being a sniper requires that you 1) Don't get isolated, spotted and killed by the enemy and 2) Don't get isolated, left behind and thus contribute nothing to the match when your team moves.

But I love my gauss snipers. Dual gauss JM6-A with insane range quirks, CTF-3D with dual gauss, SHC-Prime with gauss + ECM. Really looking forward to the dual gauss Night Gyr.

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 27 May 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

Sniping vs. line troops was entirely about removing leadership.

Or to create confusion and/or terror (e.g. Stalingrad against soldiers, Sarajevo against civilians).

[Gyrok]

Delta 62, on 26 May 2016 - 08:26 PM, said:

So I'm remembering the old days where there were snipers who followed the code of "separate from team and be sneaky."

You dont see that very much these days, as people are determined to stick together as a group; which has it's benefits. A Blob is quite powerful mind you.

But recently I've been experimenting with full R tard mode, by separating and going around the rim of the map to get at the enemy

Occasionally there are people who say. "where are you going,?" "what the hell are you thinking?"

And I tell them I'm looking for a good sneaky firing position of which to shoot backs with.

Then people will say that the range is too far to be effective..... and so I tell them about my insane range quirks and blabla.... (i won't tell you what mech i use)

So is going Lone Wolf out of style these days?

The biggest issue I see, is that typically, this is some T3 player who watched the cockpit of someone playing something like ERLL Raven or something, and they go off to try to do same, and end up getting rekt by a patrolling oxide/fs9/ach because the ERLLs cannot possibly out dps a knife fighter light.

[DONTOR]

Its always fun when you can change it up, and still be effective. I wish I would see this more often.

[DaZur]

Two discussion points WD:

Unwillingness to engage could easily be construed as cowardice but I think more often than not its self-preservation as we're piloting paper tigers that cannot withstand protracted engagements.

Parallel to the 1st point, again because that pilot is running a paper tiger, there is not necessarily a lot of tonnage to contribute to the damage sponge / blob.

Edited by DaZur, 27 May 2016 - 02:35 PM.

[Zordicron]

Spleenslitta, on 27 May 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

I shoot and scoot a lot. Or i used to before i more or less quit MWO (waiting for an update significant enough to bring me back).
I stay within optimal range most of the time as well as aiming for the torso as much as possible.
I also bring a brace of short/medium ranged weapons instead of getting a second ER PPC so i can take advantage of opportunities to hit even harder or defend myself better.

Anyhow....there is one thing i don't quite understand. A lot of players say i have to take my share of the damage. Why?
Isn't it good enough if i make the enemy turn towards me before i scoot away or just allout miss me?
Why must i stand there and trade damage when i can avoid it in my Kit Fox that has such limited armor? I just don't get it.

If i get through a match mostly undamaged while pulling my weight i think i did something right rather than wrong. If i'm on a team on the verge of losing then why aren't they gratefull when i got the armor necessary to drag home a victory?

PLease backtrack and read my first post here.

If you are creating havoc, you are doing something good.

There seems to be a lot of defensive snipe type players here that haven't grasped no one is complaining about snipe players that actually put dmg on spot, and create dischord etc on the enemy team.

The reason there are so many "sniping can be rly bad ok" type posts is that for every decent snipe player I have seen in the last seveal years of playing, I have witnessed a half dozen just bad ones that might as well have been a DC at match start.

Yes, people can play snipe fighter, and yes, they can do it well. More of them, by far, do it BAD. Certainly, to each their own, but if someone is going to come here for advice about it, they best be willing to listen to legit criticism and explainations of the risks and pitfalls of that playstyle. If said advice asker can not be objective enough about their own play to do some self reflection about how their matches go and see if they are actually "doin' gud" or not, then there is no point in discussion, or advice for that matter.

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 27 May 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

And it's a critical one. Again, one sniper is fine. 3-4 snipers means you're probably going to lose, even if they're decent at it.

You obviously have not seen coordinated gauss shots from different sniping positions. Ouch!

[Mole]

I'll go lone wolfing in any of my lights except the Kit Fox and Adder. I'll go lone wolfing in my Cicada and Ice Ferret as far as Mediums go, simply because those two 'mechs behave more like a light than a medium. There are no heavy 'mechs that I will lone wolf in. And there is one assault that I will lone wolf in, and this may surprise some of you; the Gargoyle. I actually do really well in my Gargoyle and find it to be quick and agile enough to get out a dodge while maintaining a reasonable enough amount of armor to tank what I can't dodge. If nobody pays attention to me, a lot of people are going to die. If I feel I've bit off more than I can chew, well then I'm hoofing it back to my team at almost 90kph. And since all my weapons are in the arms and I am pretty good at keeping arms on target when fighting light 'mechs, any lights that might think I'm a juicy meal usually get turned around real fast if they're not already dead.

Edited by Mole, 27 May 2016 - 11:43 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 27 May 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

You obviously have not seen coordinated gauss shots from different sniping positions. Ouch!

Well, in a highly coordinated environment all sorts of otherwise terrible setups can be extremely effective. We're talking pubqueue play here.

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 27 May 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

Well, in a highly coordinated environment all sorts of otherwise terrible setups can be extremely effective. We're talking pubqueue play here.

Well, I expected so much more from T1 players.

[MechWarrior319348]

Mystere, on 27 May 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Well, I expected so much more from T1 players.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Zordicron, on 27 May 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

PLease backtrack and read my first post here.

If you are creating havoc, you are doing something good.

There seems to be a lot of defensive snipe type players here that haven't grasped no one is complaining about snipe players that actually put dmg on spot, and create dischord etc on the enemy team.

The reason there are so many "sniping can be rly bad ok" type posts is that for every decent snipe player I have seen in the last seveal years of playing, I have witnessed a half dozen just bad ones that might as well have been a DC at match start.

Yes, people can play snipe fighter, and yes, they can do it well. More of them, by far, do it BAD. Certainly, to each their own, but if someone is going to come here for advice about it, they best be willing to listen to legit criticism and explainations of the risks and pitfalls of that playstyle. If said advice asker can not be objective enough about their own play to do some self reflection about how their matches go and see if they are actually "doin' gud" or not, then there is no point in discussion, or advice for that matter.

That reminds me a lot of when I used to play Team Fortress 2. There were always loads of players trying to be a sniper or a spy because they saw their favorite youtuber being a pro and getting top kills and headshotting left and right and doing trick stabs. They get into a match and end up being on the bottom of the score board and looking brain dead in the match while you have 1 guy constantly killing the entire enemy team.

For the people who got good at sniping you'd join a match and people would think that you're one of the bads because of all the people who made snipers look bad. They'd shut up quick once your score was higher than the entire rest of the team combined.

Kinda parallels to a lot of things in this game that people think are bad. Most of the time its just something not easy to do right so loads of bads make everyone else doing it look bad. LRM boats that sit back and die for example compared to LRM boats that stick with the team, do take damage, bring Artemis and TAG, and otherwise be a highly contributing member of the team firing accurately enough to rip CTs open quickly.

[Spleenslitta]

Zordicron, on 27 May 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

PLease backtrack and read my first post here.

If you are creating havoc, you are doing something good.

There seems to be a lot of defensive snipe type players here that haven't grasped no one is complaining about snipe players that actually put dmg on spot, and create dischord etc on the enemy team.

The reason there are so many "sniping can be rly bad ok" type posts is that for every decent snipe player I have seen in the last seveal years of playing, I have witnessed a half dozen just bad ones that might as well have been a DC at match start.

Yes, people can play snipe fighter, and yes, they can do it well. More of them, by far, do it BAD. Certainly, to each their own, but if someone is going to come here for advice about it, they best be willing to listen to legit criticism and explainations of the risks and pitfalls of that playstyle. If said advice asker can not be objective enough about their own play to do some self reflection about how their matches go and see if they are actually "doin' gud" or not, then there is no point in discussion, or advice for that matter.

I do create havoc and confusion so that's good. Kill ratio is better than average but i don't put much value on that.
If i got enough armor to have a chance of dragging home the victory by myself in the later part of the match while my team is all dead then i'd say i've done a good job saving on that armor.
But naturally i need to carry my weight throughout the match. My problem is short matches...i got a lower damage per minute but when matches are long i got a better chance of survival going lone wolf.
That's how it's been for a long time for me.

Here is one question we should ask ourselves. - Imagine if an entire lance of players managed to do 400 damage in return for receiving 10-20 damage each.
(it can be done.)
Their teammates reached the 400 damage mark much earlier in the match due to high aggression but they received crippling damage or death in return.

Which is better? Smart playstyle or outright aggression?

The community seems to be heavily favoring aggression but when you look at the numbers it seems kinda...well...unatural.

[Y E O N N E]

Delta 62, on 27 May 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

Also this game really reminds me of musket warfare. A basic example is firing lines; your team has a firing line, and so does the enemy, the goal is to get your line on the side of the enemy's firing line so you can "fire down the line."

Hell, I can even work naval warfare into this; you want to get the broadside of your ship facing the enemy's stern. That way your canon balls will go through the enemy ship back to front, killing as many as possible.

Naval warfare is the more apt description. You want to "cross the T" with the enemy. Not only was the objective to have your rounds travel through and damage more of the ship, but also to minimize the number of guns the enemy has trained on you. So you can have all nine 16-inch guns of your main battery pointed at the enemy while they can only muster between three and six depending on the layout. If we're sticking with age of sail, even more brutal since they'll get maybe four to your 32.

[Mystere]

Delta 62, on 27 May 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

Ooohhhh! I think I struck a raw nerve.

Edited by Mystere, 27 May 2016 - 05:10 PM.

[MechWarrior319348]

Mystere, on 27 May 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Ooohhhh! I think I struck a raw nerve.

Here's a picture for your bottom... tag thingy..

Spoiler