82 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

The chorus of complaint about the Oxide is reaching its crescendo, and this weekend's Hero Sale means we're about a month away from an inevitable Oxide nerf.

(Kodiak 3 will probably get a nerf at the same time, once PGI has given us time to get them levelled and achieve our Ace of Spades.)

Question: which other Mech are Clanners most concerned about (ie besides from the Oxide)?

Where the QQ goes, the nerf bat is sure to follow.

Edited by Appogee, 27 May 2016 - 01:48 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

I stopped reasoning any QQ I read. Most QQ is just subjective. I couldn't care less. It is always the pilot that matters not the Mech.

[El Bandito]

Black Kniggits, most likely.

[Xetelian]

I want to buy an Oxide but I just know it isn't going to last, once a light is feared "waaahm" the nerf bat hits.

I want to buy the BLKNT but I bet that is next

I wish they would spend more time buffing under performers than nerfing the flavor of the month.

[Widowmaker1981]

Appogee, on 27 May 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

The chorus of complaint about the Oxide is reaching its crescendo, and this weekend's Hero Sale means we're about a month away from an inevitable Oxide nerf.

(Kodiak 3 will probably get a nerf at the same time, once PGI has given us time to get them levelled and achieve our Ace of Spades.)

Question: which other Mech are Clanners most concerned about (ie besides from the Oxide)?

Where the QQ goes, the nerf bat is sure to follow.

Oh come on.. really?

Calls for nerfs to any clan mech that can hold its own are constant and neverending.. its far less common the other way rounf (though im not saying it doesnt happen)

There are FAR more IS biased people than Clan biased people. And, no offence, but you are IS biased.

[Davegt27]

I would like to see PGI buff some fun back into the game

[Appogee]

Karl Streiger, on 27 May 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

I stopped reasoning any QQ I read. Most QQ is just subjective. I couldn't care less. It is always the pilot that matters not the Mech.

However, a stronk Mech will achieve higher damage for an average pilot.

And Clan QQ has a stronk track record in having IS Mechs de-quirked.

So we must pay attention to the QQ to know where next the nerfhammer will fall.

El Bandito, on 27 May 2016 - 01:59 AM, said:

Black Kniggits, most likely.

Ah yes. You are right. I am already seeing the whining in FP matches whenever I level a Black Knight there. I think you are right, Black Knight is next for the chopping block. It may even make next month's de-quirkening.

[Juodas Varnas]

I wouldn't nerf the Oxide.

I'd reduce its quirks, most definitely, but i'd also give it the extra hardpoints (4>6). It has the geometry for it in the game files. There's absolutely no reason why it should only have 4 hardpoints, when the IIC has 6 hardpoints AND lighter missiles AND cXL engine AND access to Jump Jets.

[Appogee]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 May 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

no offence, but you are IS biased.

No offence taken ... but nah, I'm not. I own just about all the Mechs on both sides. And I play both sides regularly. (For example, my next week's FP contract will be with the Clans again.)

My general view on balance is that in general Clan Mechs net out better than IS Mechs, BUT some specific IS variants are best in some weight class due to their quirks. Until they get nerfed.

The reason Clan QQ is OP is because IS quirks inherently lead to one specific Mech and variant standing out as being OP. That is, there is a single variant that becomes a lightning rod for the Clan angst. (Note that Clanners are calling for an Oxide nerf, not a Jenner nerf.)

On the other side, there's no specific Clan variant for the IS to complain about. It's generally about a whole chassis, and only sometimes about specific franken-omnipod loadouts such Streak Crows. Ie the IS complaints get more diluted across multiple targets.

Just like focus fire on the battlefield, focus QQ is a great force multiplier on Twitter.

That is why I pay close attention to the QQ. My observations make zero difference to where the quirk wand and the nerf hammer land, or to others' biases. I just like to plot MWO's trajectory in advance - it's the new meta meta game for longtimers

Edited by Appogee, 27 May 2016 - 02:48 AM.

[Sjorpha]

El Bandito, on 27 May 2016 - 01:59 AM, said:

Black Kniggits, most likely.

They already toned down the Black Knight structure quirks, the Warhammers are probably a stronger FW staple now but they just haven't been bought/elited in enough numbers yet to start generating complaints.

[Corrado]

All this "clanners" and "non-clanners" is really hilarious. i do play both IS and Clan mechs, i don't give a damn about biased crybabies, i just hate who tries to speak defending his favorite CLAN/IS/chassis/variant. The better the balance, the more mechs we can play. Currently there are LOTS of my mechs sitting in dust because obsolete/DOA/underperforming.

I would really like the balance would be at a point where the only mechs we don't use are the one that aren't subjectively fun to play or aren't reflecting our gameplay.

[Sjorpha]

Appogee, on 27 May 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

The chorus of complaint about the Oxide is reaching its crescendo, and this weekend's Hero Sale means we're about a month away from an inevitable Oxide nerf.

I really don't see any "crescendo" of complaints about the Oxide, what basis do you have for that statement?

In fact I don't think I've seen any complaint threads about the Oxide in several weeks, did you just make that up for effect (like the silly Kodiak damage control threads do) or is there an actual mass of recent Oxide complaints somewhere?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Instead of a nerf, i actually hope for a buff to make other mechs more viable, summoner, direwolf (obsolent thanks to the kodiak now), gargoyle, mistlynx, kitfox, orion nd highlander IIC. Either structure quirks or agility, mechs with tonnage /hardpoints inflatation (hello gargoyle and summoner) should get a couple of weapon quirks, like UAC dejamming or AC/LBX cooldown.

Seriously, why the f'ing do we always have to wait for the "good" mechs to be nerfed so we can swap for the former "s'tier".

To much jenner IIC? Then give people a god darn reason to take a kitfox instead. I don't like the fachugging insta alpha win gameplay of the leet jenner IIC community either. but if PGI is going to nerf that thing what will be left? OP OXIDE / FS9 VS nerfed Jenner IIC + still obsolent clan trashtier lightmechs a.k.a. mistlynx and kitfox.

They'll just go back to chetahs again.

Remember when the Timberwolf got nerfed? Everybody was suddenly using summoners instead... NOT! because summoner was/is still sh*t.

Remember when the Stormcrow got nerfed? Did people say "HEY! i can still do the same with a Ferret? No they did not... until the Ferret got at least some quirks for him going.

[Appogee]

Sjorpha, on 27 May 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

I really don't see any "crescendo" of complaints about the Oxide, what basis do you have for that statement?

I read these forums and the MWO Twitter feeds several times a day. Between these an match chats I've seen a lot of complaints about Oxides. I suspect the advent of masses of Kodiaks getting killed through the back by them caused the spike.

[Marmon Rzohr]

LOADED, on 27 May 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

Instead of a nerf, i actually hope for a buff to make other mechs more viable, summoner, direwolf (obsolent thanks to the kodiak now), gargoyle, mistlynx, kitfox, orion nd highlander IIC. Either structure quirks or agility, mechs with tonnage /hardpoints inflatation (hello gargoyle and summoner) should get a couple of weapon quirks, like UAC dejamming or AC/LBX cooldown.

Seriously, why the f'ing do we always have to wait for the "good" mechs to be nerfed so we can swap for the former "s'tier".

To much jenner IIC? Then give people a god darn reason to take a kitfox instead. I don't like the fachugging insta alpha win gameplay of the leet jenner IIC community either. but if PGI is going to nerf that thing what will be left? OP OXIDE / FS9 VS nerfed Jenner IIC + still obsolent clan trashtier lightmechs a.k.a. mistlynx and kitfox.

They'll just go back to chetahs again.

Remember when the Timberwolf got nerfed? Everybody was suddenly using summoners instead... NOT! because summoner was/is still sh*t.

Remember when the Stormcrow got nerfed? Did people say "HEY! i can still do the same with a Ferret? No they did not... until the Ferret got at least some quirks for him going.

While what you say is true, there has to be three-pronged approach.

You have to buff the trash mechs, nerf the top mechs and adjust weapons all at the same time. One of the major reasons why balance is so bad is because PGI have used only one approach since closed beta.

It is this approach that creates stuff like the Black Knight, the Oxide, the long period of OP Clan mechs etc. If you just buff things, for them to get to the level of the good stuff, if you don't nerf it, you have to buff it to insane levels. Which is why seeking a middle ground is the much better way.

The only time they approached the problem from multiple sides was the great Faction Rebalance which saw changes to quirks for both IS and Clan mechs, a Clan XL change and changes to heatsink perfomance. This is also (IMO) the most successful change PGI ever did, not only did it bring the factions closer together but it also gave them slightly different flavours.

The issue is that since then they did nothing to tweak their original changes. It should have been the first step in rapid series of balance tweaks over 3 months and balance would be freaking fantastic by now.

[TheArisen]

Appogee, on 27 May 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

No offence taken ... but nah, I'm not. I own just about all the Mechs on both sides. And I play both sides regularly. (For example, my next week's FP contract will be with the Clans again.)

My general view on balance is that in general Clan Mechs net out better than IS Mechs, BUT some specific IS variants are best in some weight class due to their quirks. Until they get nerfed.

The reason Clan QQ is OP is because IS quirks inherently lead to one specific Mech and variant standing out as being OP. That is, there is a single variant that becomes a lightning rod for the Clan angst. (Note that Clanners are calling for an Oxide nerf, not a Jenner nerf.)

On the other side, there's no specific Clan variant for the IS to complain about. It's generally about a whole chassis, and only sometimes about specific franken-omnipod loadouts such Streak Crows. Ie the IS complaints get more diluted across multiple targets.

Just like focus fire on the battlefield, focus QQ is a great force multiplier on Twitter.

That is why I pay close attention to the QQ. My observations make zero difference to where the quirk wand and the nerf hammer land, or to others' biases. I just like to plot MWO's trajectory in advance - it's the new meta meta game for longtimers

Kodiak 1 & 3 need to be reigned in but I think those are the only Clan mechs I'd point out.

[Widowmaker1981]

TheArisen, on 27 May 2016 - 03:46 AM, said:

Kodiak 1 & 3 need to be reigned in but I think those are the only Clan mechs I'd point out.

Kodiak 1????

Its really not that good..

[El Bandito]

Sjorpha, on 27 May 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

They already toned down the Black Knight structure quirks, the Warhammers are probably a stronger FW staple now but they just haven't been bought/elited in enough numbers yet to start generating complaints.

Which Warhammer variants in particular? I do not own them yet.

[Widowmaker1981]

El Bandito, on 27 May 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

Which Warhammer variants in particular? I do not own them yet.

The 6D is, in my opinion, the current best IS heavy by a decent margin. The 6R and Black Widow are also very good.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 27 May 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

Which Warhammer variants in particular? I do not own them yet.

WAT? seriously?
What do you wait? Go for them.