74 replies to this topic

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 May 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

I did play Stock Mech Mondays for a bit.

Try again.

We've already had this debate. You were wrong then, you are still wrong now.

Nope you are. In matter of fact you not provide any sensible proof, while I got tons of hours of great Stock diverse game play on you tube. Your argues are mild and I don`t remember you so you probably lie anyway, or possibly you was the guy that said that Awesome is useless? lol Could not be more wrong as Awesome is one of more power full meks in Stock, and that is common knowledge to anyone who ever played with us. Your vision is short.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 May 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

Only according to the lore. Not according to what's actually useful in the game.

A number of them were bad even according to the lore.

The guy we're dealing with is just a hardcore neckbeard with rose-tinted googles strapped on too tight.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

FupDup, on 28 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

A number of them were bad even according to the lore.

The guy we're dealing with is just a hardcore neckbeard with rose-tinted googles strapped on too tight.

https://www.youtube....cLuH8RLBPayY-yg



All you do is empty talking. While we tested this things.
But please go on and tell me the chassis that is useless bad in Stock Mode, as almost all meks are in Full Custom.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 28 May 2016 - 03:43 PM.

[davoodoo]

Wait wait wait??

Theres single guy overseeing balance changes here??

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Has firepower really creeped up over the years?

I mean there used to be 6 PPC stalkers running around with 60 point PPFLD alphas, Highlanders with 55 point PPFLD alphas, Catapults still ran with 6 SRM6 for over 70 damage. LRM damage has been nerfed, SRM splash damage has been removed so it doesn't insta headshot you, PPCs got nerfed so that if the enemy wanted to hit you with 60 points of damage they'd have to do it with lasers which have damage over time, Highlanders became low landers and suffered from gauss and PPC nerfs, Catapults... well they got buffed actually.

I will say that close range firepower has increased a little over the years, but long range definitely isn't nearly as scary to me anymore.

[davoodoo]

Dakota1000, on 28 May 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

I mean there used to be 6 PPC stalkers running around with 60 point PPFLD alphas,

That would be around 650 dmg alpha, cause that stalker is dead.
mere 160 heat...

Edited by davoodoo, 28 May 2016 - 04:37 PM.

[Mcgral18]

davoodoo, on 28 May 2016 - 04:18 PM, said:

Wait wait wait??

Theres single guy overseeing balance changes here??

Supposedly, we really don't know at this point.


I just refer to the person(s) as the Nerfinator, transferring an old and aptly named individual who previously failed miserably.

davoodoo, on 28 May 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

That would be around 650 dmg alpha, cause that stalker is dead.
mere 160 heat...

No, only 48 heat

PPCs used to be the best weapons in the game for good reason
8 heat, 2KM/s, 3s recycle, scaling min range

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

davoodoo, on 28 May 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

That would be around 650 dmg alpha, cause that stalker is dead.
mere 160 heat...

Ah, the pre ghostheat days my friend, in an era where PPCs only took like 7.5 heat to fire. 45 heat for 60 points of pin point pain with a velocity around the speed of our current gauss rifles in a time in which nothing had structure quirks.

[davoodoo]

Dakota1000, on 28 May 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

Ah, the pre ghostheat days my friend, in an era where PPCs only took like 7.5 heat to fire. 45 heat for 60 points of pin point pain with a velocity around the speed of our current gauss rifles in a time in which nothing had structure quirks.

Now even with ghost heat, we have timber doing 2x13+5x7=61dmg alphas for 50 heat.
On a "heat intensive" clans

So yea i would say we can call it creep.

Edited by davoodoo, 28 May 2016 - 04:50 PM.

[Mcgral18]

davoodoo, on 28 May 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Now even with ghost heat, we have timber doing 2x13+5x7=61dmg alphas for 50 heat.
On a "heat intensive" clans

So yea i would say we can call it creep.

There's the application difference.


PPCs all hit instantly, for full damage
Those lasers have over a second of burn time (they still hurt, but are far less effective in damage application).
You need more DoT damage to equal PP FLD damage...which is exactly what happened.


The 6 PPC was a joke, but the 4 was terribly effective (2 and 2, IIRC, ER and normal), but the 2LPL 4ERML 54 damage>40

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

davoodoo, on 28 May 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Now even with ghost heat, we have timber doing 2x13+5x7=61dmg alphas for 50 heat.
On a "heat intensive" clans

So yea i would say we can call it creep.

However their medium lasers are shorter range than those PPCs (LPL a bit longer range at least), and it takes 5 more heat, and it has a beam duration of over 1 second.

Its much much much easier to spread 60 points of damage over yourself in 1 second than it is to do instantly.

It was basically the equivalent of being hit by quad Gauss all at once, you see someone fire and before you can react you have an opened up side torso if it didn't outright blow off. Now you see someone fire, get hit by a beam and can spread that damage to at least 3 components very easily, leaving you with only mild damage all over if you are in anything over 50 tons.

[Hit the Deck]

Mcgral18, on 28 May 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

There's the application difference.

PPCs all hit instantly, for full damage
Those lasers have over a second of burn time (they still hurt, but are far less effective in damage application).
You need more DoT damage to equal PP FLD damage...which is exactly what happened.

The 6 PPC was a joke, but the 4 was terribly effective (2 and 2, IIRC, ER and normal), but the 2LPL 4ERML 54 damage>40

And not everyone have steady hands and good aim to keep the Clans lasers burning completely on a single component (I can't, also playing on a potato laptop).

[Mole]

All of you people talking about how this 'mech and that 'mech are dead, useless, etc. I own most of the 'mechs that you guys are claiming are dead and I still find them to be quite viable. I can even do well in the lowly Vindicator, which while I will agree is quite possibly the worst chassis in the game, is still viable. The reason we're only seeing certain 'mechs with certain builds these days is because people are finding the optimal 'mechs and their optimal builds. We have 66 'mech chassis in this game. 66 of them. And that's not even stopping to think about the multitudes of variants of each chassis. Do you honestly expect all 66 'mechs to be the best at something? No. Of course there are going to be a few that rise above others and do certain roles better than the others. I mean for goodness sake, we have 66 chassis but not 66 roles for them to fill. Obviously there are going to be certain 'mechs with certain builds that are just going to be better. That doesn't mean the ones that aren't optimal are broken.

[davoodoo]

And this laser vomit isnt top alpha either.

And actually yes, i expect all the mechs in the game to be viable(and by viable i mean minmaxers wet dream), they introduced quirks so put them to use...

Edited by davoodoo, 28 May 2016 - 05:06 PM.

[Escef]

jaxjace, on 28 May 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Highlanders are useless because jump jets were nerfed hard a while back, this hurt assaults more than anything else, in addition poptarting was no longer viable on the highlander, add in its poor overall mobility, spread out, sparse hardpoints and its easy to see why its been passed over.

I really dislike it when I see people spout this crap. The Highlander is a pocket Atlas with jump jets. If you are playing a Highlander you should have at least 1 jet installed. Not for poptarting, because quite frankly poptarting assaults is a thing of the past, but for mobility. A jump jet assisted climb on Virridian Bog or Canyon Network will make the difference between being relevant and taking too long to get there to be of any help. Jump jet assisted turns are also still a thing, and in a pinch it can still spread some damage to your legs (or preserve leg armor when you need to take a running leap off of higher ground). Seriously, using jump jets does A LOT to make up for the ho-hum speed of the mech.

The hardpoints aren't particularly sparse. They all have 7 hardpoints, usually split between 1-2 ballistics, 2-3 energy, and 2-4 missile (with the 733P being the odd one with 4 energy and 3 missile). The hard points are designed for a mixed loadout of bigger weapons, like the Atlas is (Atlas also has comparable quantity of hardpoints).

Can it outbrawl an Atlas? Nope. It gets close, but with equally skilled pilots I expect an Atlas to outbrawl a Highlander nearly every time. But as part of a team, I expect the Highlander to get to the fight a little sooner and thus be rendered irrelevant slightly less often. I think the Highlander could use a slight speed quirk and a jump jet thrust quirk, but even without it is far from useless.

[Hit the Deck]

Escef, on 29 May 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

I really dislike it when I see people spout this crap. The Highlander is a pocket Atlas with jump jets. If you are playing a Highlander you should have at least 1 jet installed....

Yeah, the HGN-733C is a 10 tons lighter D-DC which trades the ECM for a JJ. Also able to aim the quirked Boom Cannon with far more dexterity. That last one is pretty significant.

[Chados]

When you're limited in guns (Victors) then what guns you bring matters. And recycle rate/heat dissipation is of paramount importance. If you can keep shooting what you have and keep moving, it can make up in DPS what you give up to most current 30 tonners in raw firepower. Use lots of heat sinks and max out cooldown modules. And pile on as much armor, and the biggest engine, that the chassis will carry. Mobility and armor will help even things out. A lot of Kodiak-3 and Jenner IIC drivers just like to stand there, click the mouse keys, and lob alphas. See, that's called "skillz."

Seriously, though. A Victor can move laterally and vertically, and though it definitely is a weak mech it actually isn't too bad if you play it like an oversized Shadowhawk.

Positioning is key. Immediate positioning. Last night I got jumped by a IIC Hunchback and an Arctic Cheetah. I was all alone and driving a lore-build Marauder 3R. An alpha of 35 and main guns useless inside 90 meters. The ACH face hugged me, so I maneuvered him between the HBK-IIC and me. In trying to leg me, the HBK team-killed the ACH by shooting him in the back. He then tried to turn and run for cover, and I put a full 35-point alpha into his back and ended the fight. In a match on Canyon Network, I got run into a canyon. The rest of the team was from one of the big-name guilds that was running a 6-man out for themselves. I kept one eye in my minimap and got lucky-I put two of them between the bad guys and me and was able to support them in taking down the enemy. The enemy players were after me all the way as I was the juiciest target. It opened them up for my big time teammates.

Edited by Chados, 29 May 2016 - 08:18 AM.

[ChaoticUrlond]

Escef, on 28 May 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Those alphas are generally not FLD, though. You can roll it. It'll still hurt, but you can roll it and survive.

Clans cant roll that damage, unless they have torso twist quirks. Clan mechs are Stale and Obsolete. Only Clan Mechs that are good roll the damage are the less played, less popular clan mechs. Summoner, Ice Ferret, Gargoyle, Exe, Adder, Myst Lynx.

[Y E O N N E]

ChaoticUrlond, on 29 May 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

Clans cant roll that damage, unless they have torso twist quirks. Clan mechs are Stale and Obsolete. Only Clan Mechs that are good roll the damage are the less played, less popular clan mechs. Summoner, Ice Ferret, Gargoyle, Exe, Adder, Myst Lynx.

wat

[Escef]

ChaoticUrlond, on 29 May 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

Clans cant roll that damage, unless they have torso twist quirks. Clan mechs are Stale and Obsolete. Only Clan Mechs that are good roll the damage are the less played, less popular clan mechs. Summoner, Ice Ferret, Gargoyle, Exe, Adder, Myst Lynx.

Gonna call BS on that, I've seen Timbers roll damage almost as well as a Stalker.