287 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior319348]

Airwind, on 01 June 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

Have no idea who came up with the 3 mechs idea. since we have PSR, why not have a MSR (mech skill rating). the higher you go the more you unlock for that mech and its variants. This would make it more realistic.

Having tier skills unlock does not mean all the variant will automatically have it. they will still need the Mech XP to activate the skill unlocked by their (MSR)

The 3 mechs thing was when they were unsure if the game would flop. They needed people to buy more mechs.

The game has survived though, perhaps its time to re-evaluate.

[Zuesacoatl]

WoT has a big p2w crowd in it. Those people will not play mwo because our hero mechs are really not much better than the standard mechs. There are a couple of outliers, but for the most part, you can stomp a hero mech just as easily a CB mech if you have skills. In WoT, if you buy the top tier tank, you can take out the noob who just joined from across the map.

[Ace Selin]

WoT doesn't have Ghost Heat !

[DaZur]

Interesting paradigm...

Just looking through the 11 odd pages of this thread, while not empirical and by no means scientific. There seems to be a loose correlation between tiers and how poorly one believes MWO to be executed and how inept PGI is.

In context it kind'a makes sense. Higher tier players have kind'a hit the "fun wall" in terms of what MWO has to offer and like higher tier players like their pool of similar tiered players, the depth of MWO becomes kiddie-pool shallow.

Players like myself still find "ah-ha" moments and the wafer thin offerings and glacial game advancement is typically enough to keep us coming back... "generally".

To be clear... I'm not attacking high-tier players and intend no denigration. Just sharing my personal observation.

Edited by DaZur, 01 June 2016 - 08:42 PM.

[dervishx5]

PGI came swinging out the gate with the game. But when I look at the 2012 beta and today's game, outside of what the current meta is, there hasn't been much to talk about. FW was a brief success and then has been a dramatic failure. The game modes are predictable and boring. We have so many mechs now that any new mech that comes out isn't that exciting.

But the worst part is that PGI thinks they can keep doing this all by themselves. They don't learn from the community or other games at all. Nor do they ask for help. So whatever bad feelings are directed toward PGI they completely deserve because they've done nothing to earn our loyalty.

[White Bear 84]

Zordicron, on 30 May 2016 - 08:03 PM, said:

A new game engine is basically a requirment though for that to happen IMO.

C'mon now, let's start by getting Faction play working™ first..

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Zuesacoatl, on 01 June 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

WoT has a big p2w crowd in it. Those people will not play mwo because our hero mechs are really not much better than the standard mechs. There are a couple of outliers, but for the most part, you can stomp a hero mech just as easily a CB mech if you have skills. In WoT, if you buy the top tier tank, you can take out the noob who just joined from across the map.

You can't buy a top tier tank. You have to unlock it conventionally.

[Alek Ituin]

vnlk65n, on 02 June 2016 - 04:48 AM, said:

You can't buy a top tier tank. You have to unlock it conventionally.

Shhh, your facts are getting in the way of the narrative.

[Wintersdark]

Zuesacoatl, on 01 June 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

WoT has a big p2w crowd in it. Those people will not play mwo because our hero mechs are really not much better than the standard mechs. There are a couple of outliers, but for the most part, you can stomp a hero mech just as easily a CB mech if you have skills. In WoT, if you buy the top tier tank, you can take out the noob who just joined from across the map.

No, lack of p2w does not keep people away. This kind of statement, and the mindset behind it, is fairly distressing.

I really, really dislike pay to win in these sorts of games. A lot. But people who do elect to "pay2win" are generally not bad people, and they're certainly not people who won't play a game if they can't just "p2w". They're taking shortcuts because they can, and can afford to. Either because they simply can, or because they feel like they have to in order to be competitive

Regardless, no, MWO doesn't lose out on any significant t number of players because you can't P2W. If anything, it gains some because there's no P2W available.

[Zuesacoatl]

Wintersdark, on 02 June 2016 - 05:49 AM, said:

No, lack of p2w does not keep people away. This kind of statement, and the mindset behind it, is fairly distressing.

I really, really dislike pay to win in these sorts of games. A lot. But people who do elect to "pay2win" are generally not bad people, and they're certainly not people who won't play a game if they can't just "p2w". They're taking shortcuts because they can, and can afford to. Either because they simply can, or because they feel like they have to in order to be competitive

Regardless, no, MWO doesn't lose out on any significant t number of players because you can't P2W. If anything, it gains some because there's no P2W available.

I disagree with this. The competitive crowd of MWO has shown a propensity to want to use the easiest way to the top, including cheats and exploits. A lot of competitive players are this way, and that includes p2win. If some players can not pay to have top gear, they will avoid that game, so yes, we lack some of the population because of the lack of p2win. Thank goodness for that though.

I have dumped a ton of money into this game, sinful amounts to be honest, so paying for convenience is not bad. I also play WoTanks and Warships, and peeps love the p2win aspect of those games, I have had conversations with players that say they would not play otherwise. I like WoWS better than tanks as the queues and top tiers are separated better, but the p2win crowd is evident in those tiers. I personally hate p2win, that is why i love MWO, as you have mostly pay for convenience, sure, you can point out the oxide, but honestly, in the grand scheme of f2p games, MWO is a saint when it comes to not having p2win, so keep those people out of here as much as possible.

[Mavairo]

Zuesacoatl, on 02 June 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

I disagree with this. The competitive crowd of MWO has shown a propensity to want to use the easiest way to the top, including cheats and exploits. A lot of competitive players are this way, and that includes p2win. If some players can not pay to have top gear, they will avoid that game, so yes, we lack some of the population because of the lack of p2win. Thank goodness for that though.

I have dumped a ton of money into this game, sinful amounts to be honest, so paying for convenience is not bad. I also play WoTanks and Warships, and peeps love the p2win aspect of those games, I have had conversations with players that say they would not play otherwise. I like WoWS better than tanks as the queues and top tiers are separated better, but the p2win crowd is evident in those tiers. I personally hate p2win, that is why i love MWO, as you have mostly pay for convenience, sure, you can point out the oxide, but honestly, in the grand scheme of f2p games, MWO is a saint when it comes to not having p2win, so keep those people out of here as much as possible.

And what is world of warships P2W?
Premium Consumables? You can restock them with credits...and not only that they're hardly mandatory for play.

Premium Ships? Barring the Nikolai with WG refuses to sell again, they're Inferior to their counterparts in their tier.
Flags? You can get flags by earning them in battle...and the advantage they grant is so minor that 90% of the time, I don't even bother putting them on my ships. The best Flags are the XP flags, for leveling your ship or your captain.

[Helene de Montfort]

Zuesacoatl, on 01 June 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

WoT has a big p2w crowd in it. Those people will not play mwo because our hero mechs are really not much better than the standard mechs. There are a couple of outliers, but for the most part, you can stomp a hero mech just as easily a CB mech if you have skills. In WoT, if you buy the top tier tank, you can take out the noob who just joined from across the map.

Best you can buy is a tier 8 tank. There are premium tanks at tier 2-8... Most of them are just useless piece of junk. Believe me, i own most of them (30+ premium tanks). Premium tanks were notably inferior in all aspects to fully unlocked same tank. They changed that when they decided to remove the +1 matchmaking for new premium tanks (yes, some premium tanks were so bad that they couldn't be opposed to too big opponents). Now you have some premium tanks that are as good as fully unlocked tanks, like my T-34-85 "Rudy" for example (Whouf whouf ). But the fact is, buying a big tank from the start won't help you stomp newbies, because, with your brand new shiny tier 8 tank (at best), you will be facing players with equivalent or better tanks having hundreds of games behind them (yes, it's long to unlock tier 8), more likely thousands (very, very long), and know the game in and out. And you arrive, still looking how to aim, in a premium tank. You don't know the maps, you don't know the tanks, you don't know how detection works, you don't know how penetration works. Basically, you're just cannon fodder. You will most probably never do anything worthwhile, and die without even understanding what killed you. In fact all experienced players recommend you never buy a premium tank before you have unlocked a tank of same tier, just because buying a high tier premium tank and rolling without enough experience makes you useless for your team.

In this regard, MWO is no different. No, the pay2win element of WoT isn't the premium tank : it's the premium ammo. Yes, i know, now you can buy these ammos for silver. But of course, their silver price make it so, even with premium account, you will have to actually buy silver with CB to keep using them. This is where the pay2win is. Just imagine if MWO had special ammos for dakkas with +50% flight speed? lasers charges with -50% duration? LBX or LRM/SRM ammos with 50% less spread? This is what WoT have. And it is the promotion of the premium ammo that made me leave. I liked the game as it was before premium ammo proliferation, much less thereafter. And finally, i gave up because i saw that Wargaming would never do anything to change this. This is also the reason i will never plau WoWS. I love WW2 naval warfare, but i will never touch any other Wargaming title, considering their policy with WoT development.

Instead, i found this on steam :

http://store.steampo...com/app/390670/

It's similar to WoWS, but at the same time very different (more nervous, less slow paced, and... They have submarines!!! Oh yeah!!!!). And i prefer it not because it's better than WoWS, but just because, it's not a Wargaming game.

[Mavairo]

Steel Oceans? lolol no.
Now THAT game is complete trash lol.
Premium ammo, and inferior gameplay in every way to WOWS.
I tried it and found it such an obviously inferior chinese knock off I elected to stick with World of warships.

[Alan Davion]

Mavairo, on 02 June 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

And what is world of warships P2W?
Premium Consumables? You can restock them with credits...and not only that they're hardly mandatory for play.

Premium Ships? Barring the Nikolai with WG refuses to sell again, they're Inferior to their counterparts in their tier.
Flags? You can get flags by earning them in battle...and the advantage they grant is so minor that 90% of the time, I don't even bother putting them on my ships. The best Flags are the XP flags, for leveling your ship or your captain.

Source on this please? Cause for the longest time ships like the Warspite weren't on sale either, yet now they're a permanent addition not only to the web store, but also the in game tech tree.

[Mavairo]

Alan Davion, on 02 June 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

Source on this please? Cause for the longest time ships like the Warspite weren't on sale either, yet now they're a permanent addition not only to the web store, but also the in game tech tree.

Wargaming has stated a few times, in podcasts that they weren't happy with how the Nikolai turned out at all.

The Warspite, is a permanent addition (which I do own..but she's frankly not as good as the NM. She's somewhere between a Fuso and NM in performance), as are the other premiums, but the Nikolai is never coming back. They don't want to nerf her to upset the buyers of her, but she herself is never coming back in.
The Kitakami which has the distinction of over all servers actually having killed more friendlies than enemies, and otherwise was a bad performer, and Nikolai, are the only two that didn't come back.

The Sims is probably also never coming back, for much the same reason the Kitakami isn't. It's a garbage scow.

[Lightfoot]

MechWarrior is sci-fi, and half pilot-sim, has a lot of depth compared to WoT. Some folks just can't cross the sci-fi fantasy line.

MWO needs to have a more competitive ladder system than just PUGs and 5 tiers. Maybe a dueling system based on Solaris. You have to say that half your tier ranking is pure luck of the draw in PUG teammates and what mech you drive. If you only drive an Arctic Cheetah or other top mech you will hit tier one pretty fast. If you experiment with a diverse group of mediocre mechs you may never get to tier 1. A dueling rank is much less subjective.

[Alan Davion]

Mavairo, on 02 June 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

Wargaming has stated a few times, in podcasts that they weren't happy with how the Nikolai turned out at all.

The Warspite, is a permanent addition (which I do own..but she's frankly not as good as the NM. She's somewhere between a Fuso and NM in performance), as are the other premiums, but the Nikolai is never coming back. They don't want to nerf her to upset the buyers of her, but she herself is never coming back in.
The Kitakami which has the distinction of over all servers actually having killed more friendlies than enemies, and otherwise was a bad performer, and Nikolai, are the only two that didn't come back.

The Sims is probably also never coming back, for much the same reason the Kitakami isn't. It's a garbage scow.

Do WG upload their podcasts to their YouTube channel(s)? Cause I'd like to find where they mention it'll never be sold again.

I ask because after reading several topics on the Nikolai on their forums, especially this one right here... http://forum.worldof...ator-nikolai-i/ I don't see how she's so OP so as to deserve never being sold again.

Being only a tier 4, she's really only fairly compared to the US Wyoming, same number of guns, just 2 less turrets to get incapacitated/destroyed. Speaking of the Wyoming, the Nikolai's AP rounds only do a maximum of 300 damage more compared to the US ship.

But, on the flip side, she's only a smidgen faster than the Wyoming, 21 kts vs 20.5 for the Wyo, she reloads 5 seconds slower than the Wyo, although her turrets do turn almost a full 4 seconds faster than the Wyo's, but that's like the trade off with the Cleveland's upgraded turrets. However, the Wyo's Type B hull speeds up the turret turn speed by almost 9 seconds, making her turrets turn almost 5 seconds faster than Nikolai's.

Now I know that review page says it's a Con that the Nikolai has only 2 upgrade slots, but all other tier 4 ships only have 2 upgrade slots, so I don't count that as being a Con.

I won't compare the Nikolai against the Japanese Myogi though, despite the Myogi being 7 kts faster, she only has 6 guns and while they have great range, especially with the spotter plane, their dispersion rate is HORRID. The Ishizuchi though, I can compare it to.

While the Ishi might have 2 guns less, she reloads faster, turrets turn faster, almost 20 seconds faster at that, she's got 1% less chance of causing a fire, although she does do 600 damage less than the Nikolai, and the Nikolai has a whopping 1km range more on her guns.

Unfortunately the review does not say how much HP the Nikolai has, so I'm going to assume she has roughly equal HP to the Japanese ships, somehere in the 44-46k range, the Wyo only has 43.8 with the type B hull.

So, this might only be my point of view, but I don't see how the Nikolai is so heavily unbalanced against her tier 4 sisters... With the exception of the Myogi of course, and according to the review Nikolai often ends up matched up against Tier 6 ships which are just flat out better.

The Kongo. 54100 HP, 30 second reload, 54.5 second turret turn, 10200 max AP damage, 30 kts speed, 21.2 km range on the guns, and no change in her dispersal pattern with any of the hull upgrades, 3 upgrade slots.

The Fuso, 57100 HP, 28 second reload, 56.3 second turret turn, 10200 max AP damage, 24.5 kts, 21.8 km gun range, with a +48 dispersal pattern fully upgraded, 4 upgrade slots.

The New York, 49100 HP, 34.3 second reload, 60 second turret turn, 10300 max AP damage, 21 kts, 15.6 km gun range, no change to her dispersal rating, 3 upgrade slots.

The New Mexico, 53200 HP, 34.2 second reload, 53.7 second turret turn, 10500 max AP damage, 21 kts, 14.9 km range, with a +13 dispersal pattern.

Compared against those ships, the Nikolai is not OP in the least bit and should get the chance to be sold again, unless there's something I'm missing that the Nikolai has going for her that I'm not able to pick out from that review and compare it against other ships.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Mavairo, on 02 June 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

Steel Oceans? lolol no.
Now THAT game is complete trash lol.
Premium ammo, and inferior gameplay in every way to WOWS.
I tried it and found it such an obviously inferior chinese knock off I elected to stick with World of warships.

SO got subs.

[WarHippy]

Mavairo, on 02 June 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

Wargaming has stated a few times, in podcasts that they weren't happy with how the Nikolai turned out at all.

The Warspite, is a permanent addition (which I do own..but she's frankly not as good as the NM. She's somewhere between a Fuso and NM in performance), as are the other premiums, but the Nikolai is never coming back. They don't want to nerf her to upset the buyers of her, but she herself is never coming back in.
The Kitakami which has the distinction of over all servers actually having killed more friendlies than enemies, and otherwise was a bad performer, and Nikolai, are the only two that didn't come back.

The Sims is probably also never coming back, for much the same reason the Kitakami isn't. It's a garbage scow.

I have not played Warships in awhile, but if that is their view of the Nikolai situation I find that rather appalling. They won't sell a supposedly over powered ship again because it is over powered and because they don't want to nerf it which would make the previous buyers mad? That is actually worse than Pay2Win because it adds special snowflake syndrome into the mix by making it into something only a special few will ever have in addition to being OP/Pay2Win.

[Alan Davion]

WarHippy, on 02 June 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

I have not played Warships in awhile, but if that is their view of the Nikolai situation I find that rather appalling. They won't sell a supposedly over powered ship again because it is over powered and because they don't want to nerf it which would make the previous buyers mad? That is actually worse than Pay2Win because it adds special snowflake syndrome into the mix by making it into something only a special few will ever have in addition to being OP/Pay2Win.

Plus if you look at my post comparing it to some of the other ships, it's really not OP at all. It might be a good ship, but it's not a God-tier ship by any stretch of the imagination.