91 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

Revis Volek, on 31 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

Right way to LRM....



DON'T!

Templar Dane, on 31 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

Right Way To Lrm IN CW-- 1 Tip

1. Don't bring them.




Jinx

Come on guys. Read the thread. Nine tips.

1. Don't.

2. Don't.

3. Don't.

4. Don't.

5. Don't.

6. Don't.

7. Really.

8. Seriously.

9. Don't.

Edited by TercieI, 31 May 2016 - 01:03 PM.

[Ryllen Kriel]

10.) Grasshoppers make the best LRM mechs. LRM 5 for the one missile mount and the rest are for TAG alphas.

[2fast2stompy]

wanderer, on 31 May 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

Ignore the above and play as little CW as possible, enjoy quickplay and kill as many people who tell you "don't" as possible.

Be sure to rub it in when you get a missile kill, too.

Why would you advocate ignoring valid advice?
LRMs are largely a hindrance to the team even in QP and that should be made clear for the benefit of people looking into them. Bringing an LRM boat above a medium is almost actively sabotaging your team.
Your damage or whether you "got a missile kill" doesn't mean ****.
The problem is that taking yourself out of the armor rotation means you're making the enemy team more efficient in focusing individual mechs ,and fights snowball really fast in MWO.
Even if you do share armor and with full 12v12, if they push and they either a) have enough ECM have enough AMS or c) just stand close to you, they either eliminated a mech from the fight or made it less threatening than a legged locust and are free to stomp the rest.

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 31 May 2016 - 01:11 PM.

[Templar Dane]

I want to point something out.

When it comes to CW players that complain about LRMs. We aren't telling people to NOT bring them because we're tired of getting owned by LRMS.

We're tired of having worthless teammates. We're tired of 'holding locks' and spending cbills on UAVs. We're tired of watching people sit in the drop zone launching LRMs at 1500m. We're tired of watching friendly LRMs slam into terrain.

They're horrible in 5 maps out of 6, and aren't all that good on the one map they can actually hit stuff on.

Please stop bringing them to CW. If you do find yourself in an LRM mech on a CW map, please do the right thing and get to the front where you can be mobile cover for mechs with effective weapons to hide behind. You'll be doing more for your team that way than in the rear launching LRMs into terrain features.

edit

Had a dude a while back that always brought FOUR LRM mechs and kept running into him. I kept asking him to bring ANYTHING else. At the end of one round he boasted.........

"SEE LOOK I DID 400 DAMAGE AND KILLED A MECH"

With 4 mechs.

And he was proud of it.

If you want to do LRMs a favor. Stop using them in CW. Maybe PGI will catch on that they are nigh on useless and stop making CW maps that are 99% absolute LRM cover.

Edited by Templar Dane, 31 May 2016 - 01:25 PM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Do people still play CW?

[Jack Rueger]

10. Always use LRMs on Assaults because we would not want you to be able to core anything with an alpha strike.

LoLz!!!

[wanderer]

Quote

Your damage or whether you "got a missile kill" doesn't mean ****.

Pssh. I regard a game I don't end up with solo kills as disappointing, but I'll take KMDDs.

Honestly, I get more kills secured by others after I've bludgeoned people into a mess of internals.

Now, I'll also say it's incredibly easy to be absolute garbage with LRMs. You're not following what the OP said? Stop using LRMs. Stop being bad. Just stop.



This is a handily-stolen example from elsewhere of what you should be doing in quickplay with missiles. The same applies in CW. Get in with your team. Someone who's in "I'M HELPING" from 500m behind the team is trash.

There is so much trash "helping" and "supporting" with LRMs that it makes a second-rate weapon look even worse.

Did you ask the team to hold locks? Stop using LRMs. If all you can do is fire at other people's locks and not seek your own- or be close enough to use intermittent locks that happen anyway - you're being bad with LRMs. Stop.

Does it take longer than the count of three for your shots to impact? You're too far away. Stop firing LRMs. Even if you manage by a miracle to hold lock, your target has plenty of time to get to cover. Stop.

[Triordinant]

The Amazing Atomic Spaniel, on 31 May 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

Do people still play CW?

[Triordinant]

Apnu, on 31 May 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

3) Artemis is optional and dependent on LOS.

When you hover your mouse over the Artemis upgrade it says:

• Lock-Time Boost 50%
  
• Tracking Boost 50%
  
• Missile Spread 66%

It doesn't say anything about needing LOS to function. Is that in a "hidden Dev post" somewhere on the Forums again? The missile spread reduction by two thirds is pretty good but Artemis is only efficient on a few bigger launchers instead of lots of smaller ones because of the extra slot and extra ton per launcher.

[wanderer]

http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/

Quote

WEAPON LOCK TIME WITH TAG, NARC and ArtemisIV

TAG decreases weapon lock time by 50%
NARC decreases weapon lock time by 50%
ArtemisIV decreases weapon lock time by 50%

ArtemisIV has to have line of sight with the target in order to grant any bonuses

TAG and ArtemisIV work together to decrease weapon lock time by 75%

TAG and NARC work together to decrease weapon lock time by 75%

ArtemisIV will always replace any bonuses from NARC. Even if Artemis does not have line of sight.



MISSILE TRACKING BONUS WITH TAG, NARC and ArtemisIV

Tracking helps missiles retain lock on a target. It helps a little with stationary targets but it is mainly used to control the hit % on moving targets.

It follows the same rules as above with weapon lock time.

TAG and NARC work together.
TAG and ArtemisIV (with line of sight) work together.
ArtemisIV trumps NARC.

[Apnu]

Triordinant, on 31 May 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

When you hover your mouse over the Artemis upgrade it says:

• Lock-Time Boost 50%
  
• Tracking Boost 50%
  
• Missile Spread 66%

It doesn't say anything about needing LOS to function. Is that in a "hidden Dev post" somewhere on the Forums again? The missile spread reduction by two thirds is pretty good but Artemis is only efficient on a few bigger launchers instead of lots of smaller ones because of the extra slot and extra ton per launcher.

wanderer, on 31 May 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/

From Wanderer's link: "ArtemisIV has to have line of sight with the target in order to grant any bonuses"

[Felicitatem Parco]

LRMs are a fun supplement to direct fire weapons when employed against hill humpers. My dual A+LRM20 , dual UAC/10 Kodiak does just fine :-)

The combination works best in an offensive push at 300-500m because your shots keep hitting them as they retreat or back down the hills they are shooting from. ATD is a must, as said before, as is BAP and either tag or narc. You shoot them in the face and then your missiles hit them as they run away to protect their faces

Edited by Prosperity Park, 31 May 2016 - 05:28 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

You left out rule #1 that still reigns supreme:

Quote

[bold]If you are running an Assault mech and all of your tonnage is dedicated to LRMs, you are doing it wrong and should be shamed out of the game[/bold]

LRMs are an approach and assist weapon. Using them in small doses are fine and good. People that, after 4 years, still seem to think that they can make LRMs boats work are just creating a team lag. It doesn't work, has never worked, and will never work.

[Apnu]

Trauglodyte, on 31 May 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

You left out rule #1 that still reigns supreme:



LRMs are an approach and assist weapon. Using them in small doses are fine and good. People that, after 4 years, still seem to think that they can make LRMs boats work are just creating a team lag. It doesn't work, has never worked, and will never work.

And ironically, the assault chassis picked for LRM boating are ones PGI discourages LRM boating on, like the Atlas. Look at its crappy tubes! But people keep boating LRMs on it, when the AWS-8T or 8R is sitting there, with good tubes, high mount points and a head energy point for TAG, and great missile quirks! And there's the Stalker 3F and 3H, also begging for LRM boating. Hardly ever see them out.

Still boating LRMs in an assault handicaps the team, as assaults have the armor to tank, and sitting back with LRMs, or Gauss for sniping, or a ton of AC2, or any other clan weapon that's got stupid long range, means that mech is holding its armor back from the team and forcing the heavies and mediums to tank damage on the front line, which they simply cannot do. Espeically in this KDK-3 4xUAC10 era we find ourselves in.

[Triordinant]

Apnu, on 31 May 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

From Wanderer's link: "ArtemisIV has to have line of sight with the target in order to grant any bonuses"

So I've been doing it right without knowing it? That might explain why LRMs+Artemis is Easy Mode on days when I'm feeling lazy (besides the fact that there are other games better suited for improving my aiming skills).

[Apnu]

Triordinant, on 31 May 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

So I've been doing it right without knowing it? That might explain why LRMs+Artemis is Easy Mode on days when I'm feeling lazy (besides the fact that there are other games better suited for improving my aiming skills).

Yes you have.

[crashlogic]

Ok, ignore all the LRM hate: you play the game the way you enjoy playing. No matter what anyone says, 120 damage and 0 kills with 1 assist does not help you team, whether you are in a lrm boat or handing out lazvomit. So the people that say LRMS are useless assume 1 they are better at dishing damage than you, and that you don't know what you are doing. Neither of this assumptions are necessarily true. I brawl a lot in an lrm5 spitting maddog, and I do well enough usually getting a 300-400 match score.
The OP gave some good advice, though on some maps its good to engage at longer distances. One thing, if you are getting your own locks, you are going to pop up on enemy radar, and you can draw a lot of lrm fire that way. If the enemy is lrming you and not the team, guess what you are sharing armour. Unless you are on polar, then most of your shooting should be under 500 meters.
Get Artemis, use it, it increases your penetration and damage, and you should be doing a lot of firing with LOS.
Get advanced target decay and radar dep, also whatever lrm you are using, get the coldown module at max, and what the hell, get the range increase (I have found myself in a duel with three red lrm boats on polar with their missiles exploding in front of me while i was hitting them and being called a cheater). Speed-you should always be in motion, and faster is better -maddogs do 87Kph and that is a pretty good speed. Since you can go that fast, you should. Sometimes your opponents will be dumb enough to let you stay in once place and kill them, but that's rare.
Get two medium lasers or three small lasers as a minimum.
ammo-6-7 tons at least..but LRM20's consume ammo fast, fireoff a lrm 5 and you can get a sense of how much ams the other guys have without depleting your stock fast.
remember you are a support weapon, and support the team, including making sure you are drawing fire,
Pick mechs designed as LRM mechs, mad-dogs, archers and such. Don;t for god's ske go lrming in an assault mech.
and remember the guys who complain the loudest about you rbring LRMS in Faction warfare are mostly trying to account for the fact that they YOLOed theri way into battle and are proud of their 400 damage and 1 kill in their direwolf.
You want to know how you contributed-match scores of 250-300 mean you held your own, match scores of 400 mean you did well, and match scores over 500 mean you carried the team. If you are under 250 you helped less than you needed to, whatever the weapon.

[wanderer]

Triordinant, on 31 May 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

So I've been doing it right without knowing it? That might explain why LRMs+Artemis is Easy Mode on days when I'm feeling lazy (besides the fact that there are other games better suited for improving my aiming skills).

Trot out an Orion-VA with a full set of Artemis launchers and introduce someone to 60 or so LRMs on direct fire. It makes a much nastier impression than the same salvo fired in indirect mode. It's not as effective as direct fire, but at range it'll beat an LB-X salvo without trying. Clanners can do it even easier if they've got the hard points, though Clantech LRMs are less effective in some ways....but in direct fire mode, you're going to likely get the whole "stream" into a target anyway.

And minimum, even a heavy lurmboat should be clocking 64kph or so. I've got Archers that mount a 325XL while they're doing their best impression of the old Kintaro LRM 5 carriers, only with bigger backup lasers.

Edited by wanderer, 31 May 2016 - 09:45 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Apnu, on 31 May 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

LRMs aren't optimal from a min-maxing solo play perspective, and they're the least competitve weapon in the game. Despite that there are players who like to run LRMs.

I've been here since the earliest days of CB. And I like to run LRM builds from time to time. I do very well in them, most of the time and I like to observe LRM players using them to see how they're doing it. Generally I see what I call "the wrong way" to use LRMs.

The wrong way is sitting back 600+ meters away lobbing LRMs, from cover, praying for solid locks from the SOBs at the front line, and holding armor back that the team sorely needs. I still see a lot of LRM builds with little to no backup weapons. Also LRM players tend to cement their feet in one spot and get ditched by the team as the fight moves around the map. Clan players can spit LRMs under 190m, but the damage return diminishes greatly the closer the target is.

The right way to play LRMs is this:

1) Trail the back end for the death ball. Stay with your team. Never stop moving.

2) Look for your own locks as much as possible.

3) Bring and use TAG and UAVs. BAP too. Artemis is optional and dependent on LOS.

4) Use LRMs at < 500m for best travel time.

5) Have backup weapons to defend yourself and/or not be useless when the LRMs are out. 3-
4 medium lasers late in the game when everybody's beat up is killer.

6) Have a speedy engine and re-position often. Be ready to move fast for a better target in optimal range (again < 500m), or dive into the middle of the death ball for cover from a harassing light mech.

7) Watch the reticle go red for hits. If lobbing LRMs, and you don't see red, the target has cover and you're firing into it.

8) Let the quirks define your build. LRM5 and LRM10 have the lowest spread. Only take LRM15 or LRM20 if the mech has quirks for them specifically.

9) Optimize your tubes. Don't put a LRM15 in a 6 tube launcher, the cooldown doesn't start until after the last missile leaves, so DPS takes a hit.

If anybody else has suggestions, let's hear them.

And don't waste an assault slot on a role that a 50-70 tonner actually does better?

[Appogee]

And use specialised equipment to gain the competitive edge over your opponents.