32 replies to this topic

[TooDumbToQuit]

This is something that I cannot test at the training grounds.


From what I understand, a Flamer will only take the Mech you are using it on to 90%.

So.....How long does it take? How long do you have to have it on the other mech for it to work.

And, would using two of them makes this happen quicker?

[Raptorman]

Waste of tonnage to me, but other players have used them well. I prefer more of a ballistic approach with lasers as a back up.

[TercieI]

.5 clan, full ton IS.

They're tricky to use and highly situational. Until you've got the knack of brawling and can see how you'd use them, don't try. Even then you may decide they don't make sense to you.

[epikt]

LikeUntoGod, on 31 May 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

So.....How long does it take?

With only one flamer it will take some time, but with multiple it can be VERY fast. At least 4 on a mech where flamers are a main feature, but 2 are ok as a backup.

They are definitely not a waste of tonnage (especially the clan variant than only weight 0.5t). You indeed won't shut down a mech by flaming it, but you will forbid it to shoot anything (but gauss and few ACs) without shutting down or take internal damage. Well done, it's extremely effective.
But they are only useful on a brawl, because their range is really short.

[Digital_Angel]

Don't use them much myself. When I go for close up builds I prefer SRMs.

I can say that I have had several times were lights have been buzzing around me with flamers before and rocketed my heat up very quickly. They usually seem to be running 2-3 of them. In those situations my only real choices are
1) hit override and take the heat damage to try keep fighting, either to scare them off or to keep focusing on my original target and try to kill it before the light eats up my back
2) rely on team mates to get them off me (YEAH RIGHT!! unless you are in group queue with people you know forget about this one)
3) be stuck firing very small/cool weapons one at a time and pray that I can ride the heat line without shutting down and then being eaten alive while I'm defenseless (if I'm in a MG/Gauss or maybe SL/SPL build this is an option, other wise forget it)

Everything I have seen with Flamers says that they are like MGs in many ways. They make a great close in support weapon, but are next to useless without something else to provide some punch (SRMs, SLs, SPLs, ...).

[jss78]

I'm interested to hear others comments as well.

I used to run the occasional single flamer on fun builds, but I was bummed out by the lacklustre visual effect they got in the same patch which buffed them otherwise.

I keep wanting to try something like this. The idea is simple: keep rocking the red guy with 3xASRM6 and your superior heat management, while denying him the opportunity to do the same with 3 x flamer. Sounds good in theory ... in practice, no idea.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Hmmm, I wish you could practice against ..uh..somone so you can tell these things. My Stormcrows have 10 laser slots. Soooo, i'm going to try 3 flamers and 6 clan sm pulse lasers.

I also heard on one TS where Clan ER pulse lasers have been nerfed, I've no idea but I sort of stopped using them.

[Metus regem]

LikeUntoGod, on 31 May 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

Hmmm, I wish you could practice against ..uh..somone so you can tell these things. My Stormcrows have 10 laser slots. Soooo, i'm going to try 3 flamers and 6 clan sm pulse lasers.

I also heard on one TS where Clan ER pulse lasers have been nerfed, I've no idea but I sort of stopped using them.

Kind of hard to nerf weapons that are not in the game yet, the Clans do not have ER Pulse lasers yet. They do have ER lasers, and yes their range has been nerfed into the ground in a silly attempt to balance them against normal IS lasers, never mind the fact that we we do finally see IS ER Lasers (other than ERLL), we are going to have to try and justify the Extended Range part of ER lasers again....

[S 0 L E N Y A]

LikeUntoGod, on 31 May 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

Hmmm, I wish you could practice against ..uh..somone so you can tell these things. My Stormcrows have 10 laser slots. Soooo, i'm going to try 3 flamers and 6 clan sm pulse lasers.

I also heard on one TS where Clan ER pulse lasers have been nerfed, I've no idea but I sort of stopped using them.

The last time clan pulse lasers got nerfed I was not even playing the game yet. I wouldnt worry about that.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Flamers have a place on brawlers sometimes. Some AS7-S and KDK-SB builds use one or two flamers in an arm mount. The practical advantage of this is, that it makes it difficult for the enemy to fire back at you without overheating (and having to choose between shutting down or taking serious internal damage). It's SUPER EFFECTIVE if you can get in close to a laser vomit meta-built mech. Not so much against, say, an AC/5 Mauler MX90.

But that and trolling are about the only things Flamers are currently useful for. Their damage output is WEAK, their range is WEAK, and they DO eventually cause the firer to take a lot of heat.


***EDIT*** Filed under "messed up stuff about MWO", the fact that a Flamer CANNOT overheat a target, but CAN a WILL overheat the firing mech.

Edited by Sister RAbbi, 31 May 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[Peter Overheater]

Flamers are great

Edited by Peter Overheater, 31 May 2016 - 03:18 PM.

[epikt]

LikeUntoGod, on 31 May 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

Hmmm, I wish you could practice against ..uh..somone so you can tell these things. My Stormcrows have 10 laser slots. Soooo, i'm going to try 3 flamers and 6 clan sm pulse lasers.

By switching omnipods you can have up to 13 energy hardpoints on the Stormcrow (6 on the right arm, 4 on the left and 3 on torsos and head), so you can do more. Actually, flamers are so light the problem with those builds is to use all the tonnage...

Feel free to send me a friend invite and poke me when you see me online if you want to test it on a lobby.
(with the tournament starting this week I might not be able to give you much time, but we never know)(I'm European, GMT+2)

[Leone]

I love brawling, And I used to run flamers on alotta builds till they nerfed 'em.

But yeah, they still good. Better in some respects, worse in the sustained fire capacity. They work faster, but they all share the same cooldown timer, so you'll burn em an then be stuck waitin' for 'em to cool off. That said, if you've the free hardpoints an tonnage, I'd suggest doing two to start. Just burn em till they near the end of their cooldown and Enjoy some cheap shots.

I'd suggest pairing em with some ballistics so you don't hafta worry about thier overheating as much.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 31 May 2016 - 04:21 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Sorry, Medium Pulse Lasers. lol.

I did use it a few times well today. Once was helping out on a Kodiak kill but I also got caught twice going for sure kills, I had them and both times another one of them shot me in the back. Both times I would swear they were alone. Each time a light mech showed up and killed me.

I had more success helping teammates bring down enemy Mechs. It was interesting because I'd see them shut down and then die but a few times it took a while because it was a big mech and we were small.

If used correctly, they work (I was using 3 at a time) but I need to wait and bind my time to attack.

epikt, on 31 May 2016 - 04:00 PM, said:

By switching omnipods you can have up to 13 energy hardpoints on the Stormcrow (6 on the right arm, 4 on the left and 3 on torsos and head), so you can do more. Actually, flamers are so light the problem with those builds is to use all the tonnage...

Feel free to send me a friend invite and poke me when you see me online if you want to test it on a lobby.
(with the tournament starting this week I might not be able to give you much time, but we never know)(I'm European, GMT+2)

That would be cool thanks. And you can show me how the whole thing works. I have some PT and I'd spend some of it practicing against another.

Like that circle of death that Lights do and you try to do with them.

P.S, Is that why they are called "streak crows"

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 31 May 2016 - 09:46 PM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Everything must burn

Get the drop on someone, and instantly push them to 80% heat. 6 C-flamer for instant +27.0 heat/sec, and 8 C-SPL for a powerful one-two punch that isn't terribly hot.

For the record, most mechs only have around 60 heat capacity. +27 h/s is pushing them to riding the heat limit in about two seconds flat. And best of all? Flamers do NOT generate that much heat for the first couple of seconds of firing. This means that you start the fight with a cold mech, and they start with a burning hot one. It's great for 1v1 duels, but not so much in a teamfight when you can only effectively shut one mech down at a time.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

LikeUntoGod, on 31 May 2016 - 09:44 PM, said:

Sorry, Medium Pulse Lasers. lol.

I did use it a few times well today. Once was helping out on a Kodiak kill but I also got caught twice going for sure kills, I had them and both times another one of them shot me in the back. Both times I would swear they were alone. Each time a light mech showed up and killed me.

I had more success helping teammates bring down enemy Mechs. It was interesting because I'd see them shut down and then die but a few times it took a while because it was a big mech and we were small.

If used correctly, they work (I was using 3 at a time) but I need to wait and bind my time to attack.




That would be cool thanks. And you can show me how the whole thing works. I have some PT and I'd spend some of it practicing against another.

Like that circle of death that Lights do and you try to do with them.

P.S, Is that why they are called "streak crows"

Nope. Streak Crows are Storm Crows that primarily boat Streak SRM launchers. Usually, you'll see them with 4 or 5 of the Clan Streak SRM-6 launchers. (Those that only run 4 SSRM-6s, typically also run 2-5 ERSLs or SPLs to supplement the missile launchers at close range and to focus-off damaged components, and they pretty much MUST use an Active Probe to counter ECM and reduce lock-on times.) They also take advantage (if they're smart) of the no-weight Artemis IV FCS for those Streak SRM launchers. Artemis IV doesn't change the size/weight of STREAK SRM launchers, but it DOES reduce the lock-on time for them with direct line-of-sight, just as it does for LRM launchers.)

But there are ridiculously many effective builds for the Storm Crow. One of my favorites is the LB10-X and 3x MPL Storm Crow.

Now, on to the light mech circle-of-death. The EASIEST counter for this, if you're the light mech's target, is to get your back against a wall or cliff, or something that the light cannot climb to stay behind you. This effectively cuts the circle in half for the light mech pilot and forces him to face your weapons. If you don't have such a terrain feature available to use, try following his circle until he gets out of your sights, then quickly reversing your circle to catch him on the other side, thereby reducing the amount of time that your light BACK armor is exposed to the light mech and getting your weapons trained back on him. And keep moving generally in the direction of your friendlies as you do this, so that they can help you out.

[invernomuto]

I've never used them but I saw a pair of medium working in tandem with flamers roasting a stormcrow (IIRC they were a pair of griffins) in a scouting mission. It was quite impressive, they started to run in circle around him and it shutted down every time he tried to fire back something to them. Someone used flamers against me and it was quite effective, I had a laser build and I could not fire back without shutting down due overheat. They're rarely used though, they have really short range and you have to come really close to the enemy risking a pair of alphas in your face in the meantime.

[Void Angel]

LikeUntoGod, on 31 May 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

This is something that I cannot test at the training grounds.


From what I understand, a Flamer will only take the Mech you are using it on to 90%.

So.....How long does it take? How long do you have to have it on the other mech for it to work.

And, would using two of them makes this happen quicker?

Flamers are an odd duck; I haven't used them since the (not too recent any more) buff, but they're a niche weapon meant for a certain purpose.

I don't recall all the mathemagic that goes on, but basically any Flamer(s) that hit a target will transfer heat to that target, while generating heat themselves. What's tricky is that heat is generated and transferred on a curve. Actually, a different curve for each process. Confused yet? Well, it's not really that complex in general: basically, your heat transferred to the target eventually falls off as the target's heat rises, capping out at about 90 percent, as you've heard. The heat you get ramps up after a short time, however; after 4.75 seconds, heat/second starts increasing exponentially (it's 1.0/sec before that) - this means that if you hold down the trigger for longer than 4.75 seconds, your heat starts to skyrocket.. Shortly after you stop firing, the heat generated drops back down

Both of these mechanics are there to avoid people being able to lock down enemies completely - or even destroy them by piling a lot of flamers into a low-heat build and just killing anyone less efficient who they catch at close range. Even so, a well-placed flamer burst can still push people into overheating by messing with their heat management reflexes. Many of us develop a feel for how hot our builds are, and how often we can shoot. If I don't notice someone hosing me down with fire from the side and don't check my heat, I may accidentally kick myself over into the redline and either shut down or start taking structure damage - and it'll take me a lot longer to cool back down due to the flamer heat.

However, the Flamer still suffers from some severe drawbacks: its range is tiny, its damage is minuscule, and it requires that you stare at your target (or at least track it with your arms) for the entire duration of the burn. Feel free to play with it, but do not expect it to be a good general-purpose weapon (in other words, bring something cool like a Gauss Rifle or (U)AC/10.)

Edit: looked up the Patch Notes and fixed some things.

Edited by Void Angel, 01 June 2016 - 11:51 AM.

[PaquIS]

I have had quite a lot of success with them on my Firestarter FS9-A. I run two flamers and 6x small pulse lasers on it. There is still enough punch from the lasers to do good damage and the flamers will certainly even up the fight against bigger mechs.

If you just get couple seconds of burn time on an enemy you will basically take away most of its firepower and in best case scenario he will overheat and let you make some free shots. I feel like I can do way more damage on bigger mechs with that build than with say 8x small pulses. Not to mention how great of a support the flamers are if you are helping a teammate who is having a duel with someone.

Obviously avoid going against some cool ballistic / srm builds, but if you see a laser vomit build? Flame on!

However I wouldn't take it on anything else than on a light mech and maybe on some medium mechs. Heavys and Assaults are simply too slow to really make it to that 90m range..

[SPencil]

It's been a while since I played with flamers, but they can be very entertaining. Shot at the cockpit, it's a wonderful blinding measure

Edited by SPencil, 02 June 2016 - 11:45 AM.