99 replies to this topic

[Narcissistic Martyr]

KahnWongFuChung, on 05 June 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

Because those lame PGI decision makers ruined my timberwolfs to a point there garbage I want back what I paid for a totally OP timberwolf that it takes3-5 IS mechs to kill it like it was when it was first released.

That's the way it was in Battletech lore and MechWarrior games =( SO RUSS WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE FOOL)

1. The clan invasion ruined TT's game of thrones political atmosphere and created a us vs them good guys vs bad guys narritive to replace it. Joy.

2. I'm fine with the timbie et all being OP as hell if we were doing a company vs a star. Which we aren't.

[Davers]

KahnWongFuChung, on 05 June 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

Because those lame PGI decision makers ruined my timberwolfs to a point there garbage I want back what I paid for a totally OP timberwolf that it takes3-5 IS mechs to kill it like it was when it was first released.

That's the way it was in Battletech lore and MechWarrior games =( SO RUSS WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE FOOL)

I know it's neither fair or true, but whenever I see Clan players complain this is how I take it as.

[2fast2stompy]

visionGT4, on 08 June 2016 - 01:42 AM, said:

Id like to propose a trade, clans can have whatever you want from IS (like ANYTHING and ALL of it) in exchange for IS receiving access to clan-xl.

Sure, bro, I'll take the full-****** IS quirks in exchange for the locked-rating training wheels.

[Revis Volek]

Rhaythe, on 08 June 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

Dude. People say that about light mechs 24/7.

and they are just as incorrect as the OP


Just because other people do it means it ok? Its ok to speak on thing you know nothing about because OTHERS people do it too. Did you even say that out loud before you wrote it?


People do drugs and sell people as well, everyone else is doing it so it must be fine.

[Mole]

In b4 Gyrok stomps in here and lays down a bunch of silly off-base arguments about how everything IS is overpowered and everything Clan is underpowered. Everything. Every single thing. All the things. Because stuff and reasons.

[Apnu]

Clan mechs are tough. Many of them have a cone body shape that makes spreading damage easy (Timber, Scrow), and the two slot XL engine means torso loss isn't the end of the game, and they've got a great range advantage over IS too.

But their weapons are hot and have crappy recycle and, besides the Kodiak and streak-crow, brawl like garbage.

We've seen clan mechs for a while now, and IGP/PGI's implementation of them was as screwed up as one can get, but they're not OP. Not today.

The trick is, don't stand in front of them. Get to the side, brawl and force the pilot to push his heat scale to shutdown then you kill them.

[Mole]

Apnu, on 08 June 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

besides the Kodiak and streak-crow, brawl like garbage.

My Shadowcat, Kit Fox, Mist Lynx, Gargoyle, Arctic Cheetah, Jenner IIC, and Nova would all like a word.

[cazidin]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 08 June 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

1. The clan invasion ruined TT's game of thrones political atmosphere and created a us vs them good guys vs bad guys narritive to replace it. Joy.

2. I'm fine with the timbie et all being OP as hell if we were doing a company vs a star. Which we aren't.

1.Isn't that more a failure of execution than a poor idea? They could've retained a GoT political atmosphere and even gone more in depth with it as new alliances form to fight this mysterious enemy from beyond the periphery.

2.I'd argue the Timber Wolf isn't really OP anymore. It's well built, yes but "Very Good" doesn't necessarily translate to "OP!"

[Narcissistic Martyr]

cazidin, on 08 June 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

1.Isn't that more a failure of execution than a poor idea? They could've retained a GoT political atmosphere and even gone more in depth with it as new alliances form to fight this mysterious enemy from beyond the periphery.

2.I'd argue the Timber Wolf isn't really OP anymore. It's well built, yes but "Very Good" doesn't necessarily translate to "OP!"

1. They could have perhaps done that but they basically took Eugenics, added in a Genghis Khan style invasion (superior tech warrior culture used to living a hard life and thus able to conquer every damn thing), and then when all hope was lost they went lol comstar plot armor and deus ex machina'd (like Genghis Khan dying due to suffocating on his own vomit or whatever) themselves out of the mess they'd written themselves into.

2. I meant that in context of TT levels of power disparity. If the IS had a sufficient numerical advantage it'd be fine for the clans to be as powerful as they are in TT.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

clan mechs are not OP for several reasons

- IS mechs are far more tanky because of structure/agility quirks and IMHO more favorable treatment to hitboxes by pgi.

- IS mechs run much cooler, can alpha more often and often have quirks for "meta" loadouts

- IS mechs often have energy duration quirks that allow them to practically treat lasers as ppfld where as clans have long burn lasers which means that an IS mech is often able to pop off an alpha, and sink the whole thing into a clan mechs ct while the clan mech is literally only half way through his burn allowing the IS mech to twist off damage that would have otherwise cored him out, clans do not get this option and in a close in battle IS wub beats clan wub almost every time.

- IS mechs have ppfld ac's which are much better for actually killing/disabling a target vs burst ac's. IE nothing beats an IS AC20 to an open component for sheer effectiveness and nothing even comes close to ac5's/ultra 5's and PPC's sudo dual gauss (with no charge up) combo for ranged combat and area lockdown.

- IS ppcs/erppcs are usable because of quirks and manageable heat, clan ERPPCs are a freaking joke even with the clan mechs that have quirks.

- better individual DHS overall.

- pound for pound better engines because of agility quirks, there are very very few IS mechs that aren't more agile than a clan mech with the same rated engine.

- far more lenient ghost heat, IS mechs can shoot 3 LL clans 2, IS mechs can combo SL/SPL/ML/MPL to avoid ghost heat ad infinitum, clans get ghost heat if they combine any 6 of those weapons period.


straight advantages that the clans still hold indisputably.

- clan XL engine

- better endo/ferro

- lighter srms

- lighter/smaller gauss

- a better LPL and SPL (on paper only, once quirks are applied clan wub often comes up short), generally better range with energy weapons

- better DPS autocannons.

- better heat dissipation and possibly a higher heat cap because of smaller DHS (cuz you can stuff more for the crits). but really any clan weight advantage with energy weapons is nullified by the need to boat massive amounts of DHS to even keep reasonable DPS. often IS mechs can get away with a few extra DHS to fill crits, with energy centric clan battlemechs, you literally are considering ripping off endo/ferro (that magically OP stuff of legend that force multiplies a clan mechs potential) just to cram in more DHS.


overall, IS has many more "viable" mechs and builds, alot of clan mechs are one trick ponies or have specific builds that work well and deviating from a certain formula is simply foolish. IE you may want to run alot of C LPL, Gauss, SRMs and certain dakka builds because frankly most other clan weapons suck.

the real question op is "how are IS mechs not OP?"

Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 08 June 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Appogee, on 08 June 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

So you reckon you can kill four enemy Mechs that move at 105 kph without them ever getting within 400m of you?

Please, post the video of yourself doing that, I would like to learn from you.

wait what?


LL Ravens or AC10 Enforcers or Even a Locust with 1LPL,
any LL/LPL/ERLL or AC5/10 Light/Medium can win against Pure SRMs/SSRMs,

dont beleave me take 4 LCT-1Vs, be squarly and take as many points as you can,
wait for the dropship to show, then move in to Claim your Victory if you cant Leg the SCRs,
if your going for KMDD, in scouting then perhaps the peoblem isnt Faction Balance or the Game mode,

[Xetelian]

no one, on 06 June 2016 - 12:23 AM, said:

Why would you build a Kodiak to create a fault and then point out that fault? It's sustained DPS is only lower because of the medium lasers. Take those off and you have the Kodiak out-damaging the mauler at better heat efficiency. Or better yet let's remove the ClanXL advantage, drop the Kodiak to that Mauler's speed, give it a pure set of CuAC/5s and equivalent ammo. . .

KDK-3
Seems a lot closer to the Mauler! 104% heat efficiency with just the ac/5s, better heat efficiency with the backup weapons. Of course, given the Kodiak's hitboxes and weapon mounts there's no reason to not do the clan XL and push those to CuAC/10s

KDK-3

Or if you want to go nutty and toss out the shoulder-peek advantage you can make the Kodi into a death-star.

KDK-3


Again, I'm not calling for Kodi Nerfs, but at least use comparisons that make sense.

I was comparing the optimal meta build of one mech variety to the optimal meta build of another.

I wasn't drawing a 1 to 1 comparison and one is 10 tons heavier than the other, I was simply pointing out that between both meta builds you get different flavors of damage.

I just said there was a difference in approach for each mech and that the MAL can do 25 pin point alpha strike damage compared to the Kodiaks spread shot damage.



UAC5s for a MAL vs UAC5s for a KDK are FLD but only one is PPFLD.

The 4 UAC5 KDK has ghost heat if it alphas
The 5 AC5 MAL has no ghost heat.

Edited by Xetelian, 08 June 2016 - 03:07 PM.

[Templar Dane]

Mole, on 08 June 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

My Shadowcat, Kit Fox, Mist Lynx, Gargoyle, Arctic Cheetah, Jenner IIC, and Nova would all like a word.

Uh, what?

The sadcat gets crapped on by the blackjack no contest.

The mist lynx is a joke

Gargles is pretty bad

hunchback/cent/griffin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nova

[Mcgral18]

Nyte Kitsune, on 06 June 2016 - 06:10 AM, said:

How are clan mechs not OP?.. Silly question, Of course they are, they're supposed to be.. But STOP asking for them to be quirked. They don't need quirks, just smarter pilots.

For those that think they need the quirks, stop piloting Clan mechs like morons and you'll do better. I see far too many Clan mechs set up like IS mechs.. YOU'RE NOT IN IS MECHS. Boating lasers on IS mechs works, because they carry fewer weapons thus less heat, same with AC's.. Boating lots of lasers or ac's on a clan mech because you can load more of them makes you an idiot (Minus stock configs like the Nova which come that way). Clan mechs generate far more heat when boating for brawling which is why they die so easily, then you come here and whine that Clan mechs suck, they don't suck, they just aren't used properly. Clan mechs should take advantage of mixed weapon loadouts (Short AND long range weapons) and alternate between the 2. Not firing them all at once thinking you're Rambo.

Trust me, I kill clan mechs in a IS med (BJ-A, BJ-3), quite easy too as usually my targets are clan mechs boating short range weapons, which means yes, they have a lot of short ranged weapons, but if you can't get into range with them you're an assault class paperweight, if those pilots had mixed loadouts I likely would regularly get killed by them, instead of killing them, but by all means, keep doing it, I like shooting fish in barrel.

No, Trash Tier Clams need quirks, because they bring absolutely nothing to the table. Not to mention the fact, all short range Clam lasers got nerfed awhile back too, losing (40%?) of their extended range.
They still have plenty of other excellent stats to make them worth taking, of course.


But, do you really expect the Nova to be a ERLL boat? ERPPC poptart? Can do it, but I prefer the SL boat myself (with some Flamers)


Mechs are mechs, it doesn't matter which tech base they have. Short range lasers? You play short range lasers. Mid range ACs? Don't play like short range lasers.

Now, your cry to not ask for quirks, then mention a quirked mech, is very ironic. The BJ gets significant Structure (half of what it used to, still more than most) and many half decent weapon quirks.


In other news...what kind of scrub suggests brining a Frakenmech?

Templar Dane, on 08 June 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

hunchback/cent/griffin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nova

Nova is pretty decent, actually.
Beats the Hunch and Cent both in a brawl, but the Griffin is a touch superior up close

I expect it to be worse after the resize, due to quirks likely being gutted.

[Moldur]

cazidin, on 08 June 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

1.Isn't that more a failure of execution than a poor idea?

Wow you pretty much summed up PGI's entire existence.

[Appogee]

Andi Nagasia, on 08 June 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

LL Ravens or AC10 Enforcers or Even a Locust with 1LPL,
any LL/LPL/ERLL or AC5/10 Light/Medium can win against Pure SRMs/SSRMs,

dont beleave me take 4 LCT-1Vs, be squarly and take as many points as you can,
wait for the dropship to show, then move in to Claim your Victory if you cant Leg the SCRs,
if your going for KMDD, in scouting then perhaps the peoblem isnt Faction Balance or the Game mode,

I will need to give this a try. I've been SRM brawling with tremendous success, but it hasn't worked against four Streak+SRM Crows.

I'm kind of surprised that it's possible to actually kill 4 Streak Crows while maintaining 400+ metres of range... because that's a long way to focusing a laser on a leg moving at 104kph. But it will be interesting to try it out.

Edited by Appogee, 08 June 2016 - 10:00 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

Appogee, on 08 June 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

I will need to give this a try. I've been SRM brawling with tremendous success, but it hasn't worked against four Streak+SRM Crows.

I'm kind of surprised that it's possible to actually kill 4 Streak Crows while maintaining 400+ metres of range... because that's a long way to focusing a laser on a leg moving at 104kph. But it will be interesting to try it out.

Used to be done by JR7-F's with 6 ML back in the day. If the crow was using the CD module instead of the range module, all the better.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Queen of England, on 05 June 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

IS has better quirks, lower laser duration, better heat efficiency, while clans have higher damage and better range, basically.

A pretty good generalization I think.

Revis Volek, on 05 June 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

How can you say something is OP when you have never even drove it yourself?

Click bait title.

[Pr8Dator]

Because after playing both IS and Clan mechs extensively, my fav continues to be IS mechs... basically they boat better hahaha

[Rhaythe]

Revis Volek, on 08 June 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

People do drugs and sell people as well, everyone else is doing it so it must be fine.

Careful, now. Your Asperger is showing.